Just my two cents...... For us non-reloaders..... I would be very confident in finding 30-30 hunting rounds to suit my purpose in ANY store that carries ammo. Conversely, the choices for the 7.62 in a hunting round would be extremely scarce. Here in Pennsylvania, the 30-30 has killed more deer than any other loaded gun. Not tryin to "poo-poo" the 7.62 at all, just the facts.
Why no 30-30 bolt actions?
- Thread starter superpelly
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Quickdraw Limpsalot
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My father in law uses a Remington 788 in 30-30 primarily for deer. He bought a 7mm, but it stays in the gun cabinet most of the time because of the recoil. He's taken a lot of nice deer with the ol' 788.
4fingermick
Member
One day I will find a 788 in 30-30. I suppose in the meantime I should get an old SMLE action and rebarrel it with an old target barrel, usually still plenty of life left in those. IN fact I have a M17 downstairs in the safe with a Black Mountain target barrel on it. It was a target rifle and the action still had the ears and sights on it. I have taken the stock for a barreled action with lugs removed I picked up in a trade. I have got the M17 bits that were missing (trigger guard, trigger, mag well, etc) to convert the action back to mil status. I have an M17 Sporter which will take the fancy trigger, yarda, yarda, yarda. Why don't I just stick to 308's??????? Fool!
MCgunner
Member
I had a M340 Savage complete with funky side mounted scope mount. I bought it in around 1968. It was a very accurate rifle, probably because the cartridge is very accurate. I couldn't make that thing shoot much over 1 moa with my handloads. LOL I loaded Sierra 150 spitzers in it, one advantage of the box magazine. I sold that 340 to an uncle and now have a .308. I don't miss the old .340. My only .30-30 now is rather non-traditional, though, a Contender 12" pistol. Hey, it's a deer killin' machine and more accurate off the bench than a lot of rifles. With a 2x scope, I have no problem shooting 1.5 MOA with it. More scope and I might be able to shrink that. You can get the Contender in a rifle platform, too, but I prefer the pistol model. I'm quite happy with my little M7 in .308 for a hunting rifle, accurate and handy and pushes a 150 grainer to around 2800 fps. I have an SKS, a toy really. I have it rigged up for night hunting hogs with a light on the scope. It's accurate enough for night shots at up to 100 yards. The Remington is my go to hunting rifle.
Steve H
Member
I have a 340 from the early 60's. It's really a fun gun to shoot and it's pretty accurate.
cracked butt
Member
Why bother pounding a square peg in a round hole?
A .308 will do anything a 30-30 will do and so much more.
A .308 will do anything a 30-30 will do and so much more.
mustanger98
Member
This assumes a .30-30 shoots square bullets, which it would seem we'd all know to be untrue. In truth, .30-30 and .308 use the same diamter bullet... .308". The quoted statement doesn't show superiority of one round over another inside each rounds working parameters. It only shows its author to be just another who wishes certain cartridges would die out against the preferences of others.
I bother with .30-30 because I like it just like I bother with .303British and .30-06 and some others because I like them. It's true for other individuals as well.
cracked butt
Member
Don't get me wrong, the 30-30 is a good cartridge in a levergun. Putting it in a bolt action is creating an answer to a problem that doesn't exist (putting a levergun cartridge in a bolt action is my square peg analogy)- and attempts to do so have never sold very well.
superpelly
Member
---------
To date, the lowly .30-30 Win has bagged more whitetail deer than any other cartridge in the country. It will probably be many more decades before that record falls...if ever it does. Regardless of the fact that the 7.62X39 is slightly more powerful, and the .308 Win certainly out-strips the .30-30 in power and range, the .30-30 Win holds something that the others do not...nostalgia...that feeling that you get in the core of your being, reflecting as you reload, etc.
I read an article many years back about the .30-30 Win V. the 7.62X30. The author asserted that the major reason that the 7.62X30 has better ballistics than the .30-30 Win is projectile type. Most .30-30s are flat points per the tube magazines. The author suggested taking the .30-30 Win, loading it to maximum CUP, and using Nosler Ballistic Tipped projectiles. In doing so, one is faced with a mutated round that offers up some impressive power to cost ratio. Such hand-loads can easily extend the .30-30 Win to a 250 yards deer caliber.
And so, the point is this, in a single-shot rifle, or in a bolt-action rifle, one can use hand-loads of maximum power and best-designed components in .30-30 Win.
I read an article many years back about the .30-30 Win V. the 7.62X30. The author asserted that the major reason that the 7.62X30 has better ballistics than the .30-30 Win is projectile type. Most .30-30s are flat points per the tube magazines. The author suggested taking the .30-30 Win, loading it to maximum CUP, and using Nosler Ballistic Tipped projectiles. In doing so, one is faced with a mutated round that offers up some impressive power to cost ratio. Such hand-loads can easily extend the .30-30 Win to a 250 yards deer caliber.
And so, the point is this, in a single-shot rifle, or in a bolt-action rifle, one can use hand-loads of maximum power and best-designed components in .30-30 Win.
defiant73a
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What makes the .30-30 a "levergun cartridge" (although it's most commonly found in leverguns)? Bolt actions, pump actions and single shots have been chambered in .30-30. Frankly, I'd love to get my hands on a Winchester Model 54 in .30-30.
cracked butt
Member
Rimmed- check
Relatively low pressure round- check
Comes loaded with your choice of flat point or round nosed bullets- check
Before the advent of the Leverevolution cartridges, have you ever seen a spire point 30-30 factory load? If I'm not mistaken, the 30-30 was firat chambered in the winchester 94.
The other side of that equation is that its also wounded more deer than any other cartridge. Being that its a ubiquitous cartridge doesn't mean its a superior deer killer.
If you are going to handload anyhow, a .308 can be more easily and more safely loaded down to the maximum 30-30 performance than a 30-30 can be loaded up. Remember, the 30-30 has a thin case web and cannot take much more pressure than its already loaded for in factory ammunition.
I'll agree that the 7.62x39 is not the same as a 30-30. A 7.62x39 loaded to its maximum potential roughly equals the lightest factory 30-30 loads. It would be like saying my hotly loaded 30-06 is equal to a .300WM because its about equal to remington reduced recoil loads in the .300WM.
MCgunner
Member
The rim makes it less of a bolt gun cartridge. The .30-30 was designed for the 94 Winchester and it's the guns that have made it so popular over the years, not the stellar performance of the round, itself. The guns are light, handy, quick to the shoulder, fantastic in woods hunting and that flat point bullet performs on game above all logic. It is quite a good deer gitter and if it's wounded game, it wasn't because of the cartridge. I doubt the wounding rate is any greater for the .30-30 than the .30-06 where deer is concerned. If you hit the boiler room, it works.
However, I have to agree that if a guy wants a hunting rifle, a bolt action hunting rifle, why go out of your way to find an old beat up 340 Savage when you can get a new compact short action in .308? If you want less power, just load it lighter (I'm a handloader, I'm sorry if you're not). The .308 isn't excessive in recoil, is an inherently accurate round, and fires a 150 grain spitzer bullet at 2800 fps or so from a 20 inch barrel. That velocity is SIGNIFICANTLY higher and energies WAY higher than the 150 grain .30-30 typically at around 2200 fps in factory loads. My handloads will push it to about 2400 fps and I can handload a spitzer boat tail which wakes it up. Sure, with a Nosler ballistic tip, I can make the .30-30 easily a 300 yard hunting round, but I ain't goin' out of my way to find a bolt gun for it when I have a perfectly good (in fact I love the thing, my primary gun) M7 Stainless Remington in .308. The .308 is readily available in a very handy little light weight bolt rifle from multiple manufacturers. The .30-30 remains as ever a lever gun round, nothing wrong with that, but that's what it is. Another thing about .308, I can get bulk military brass from Midway CHEAP!
If you find an old .340 Savage or maybe a 788 Remington in .30-30, I can tell you, it's an effective medium game rifle and can be loaded to much more impressive performance than some would have you believe the .30-30 is capable of just by using Nosler Ballistic Tips, but if I were looking for a hunting rifle in a short .30 caliber, why waste time looking for 30 year old or older beater when I can get a new rifle now in .308? If you have the answer for that, fine, but to me it's not logical.
Now days, even if you're not a handloader, you can get that Hornady Leverlution stuff for your 336 Marlin and get the most out of a .30-30 with a handy little lever gun even without handloading. The .30-30 is a great old round even today and Hornady has given it a new lease on life, but I see no great market for it in bolt guns, probably why there's none built today. The main reason the round was chambered in the Savage 340 in the first place is that the Savage was a low end gun and couldn't handle the pressures of a higher pressure round like the .308. It had one locking lug and the action was more Mannlicher than Mauser in design with the bolt acting as the safety lug. The 788 was a stronger gun and was chambered in .308 so the .30-30 in that rifle always sort of baffled me. Indeed, it didn't sell well and didn't last that long in the 788.
All JMHO. Don't think I'm badmouthing the .30-30 'cause I've always appreciated the round. I liked that old Savage, bought it when I was a teenager and didn't have the cash for anything higher priced and it sure was a good little rifle for me. I still load and shoot .30-30 in my Contender and it makes a dandy Contender round for deer and hogs, need nothing more, and it's easy to shoot compared to some of the cannon rounds the Encore is chambered for or the .45-70 which is a bit much unless you're after Moose or something. But, I've moved on with my bolt guns. I have my old .257 Roberts in an old M722 Remington (MUCH finer gun than a 788 ever dreamed of being), my Savage in 7mm Remington Magnum, and my M7 in .308. The Remington is all I use now days. I feel all my bases are covered with what I hunt or may hunt as far as bolt guns are concerned.
Oh, BTW, the statement that the 7.62x39 is MORE powerful than the .30-30 is bogus. In fact, the .30-30 is capable of more energy shooting a heavier bullet. The 7.62x39 is close, but no cigar. I have a couple of SKS rifles, one I sporterized with a scope and such. I don't know, I just got carried away sporterizing it. I have it set up for night hunting hogs now, lighted reticule scope, spotlight mounted on it. It's okay to 100 yards, but only shoots about 3MOA, not even close to my bolt guns and not really competitive with a good lever gun in .30-30. I really only have it because it was cheap ($75) and was fun to dress up. As a useful hunting tool, it isn't really that great.
However, I have to agree that if a guy wants a hunting rifle, a bolt action hunting rifle, why go out of your way to find an old beat up 340 Savage when you can get a new compact short action in .308? If you want less power, just load it lighter (I'm a handloader, I'm sorry if you're not). The .308 isn't excessive in recoil, is an inherently accurate round, and fires a 150 grain spitzer bullet at 2800 fps or so from a 20 inch barrel. That velocity is SIGNIFICANTLY higher and energies WAY higher than the 150 grain .30-30 typically at around 2200 fps in factory loads. My handloads will push it to about 2400 fps and I can handload a spitzer boat tail which wakes it up. Sure, with a Nosler ballistic tip, I can make the .30-30 easily a 300 yard hunting round, but I ain't goin' out of my way to find a bolt gun for it when I have a perfectly good (in fact I love the thing, my primary gun) M7 Stainless Remington in .308. The .308 is readily available in a very handy little light weight bolt rifle from multiple manufacturers. The .30-30 remains as ever a lever gun round, nothing wrong with that, but that's what it is. Another thing about .308, I can get bulk military brass from Midway CHEAP!
If you find an old .340 Savage or maybe a 788 Remington in .30-30, I can tell you, it's an effective medium game rifle and can be loaded to much more impressive performance than some would have you believe the .30-30 is capable of just by using Nosler Ballistic Tips, but if I were looking for a hunting rifle in a short .30 caliber, why waste time looking for 30 year old or older beater when I can get a new rifle now in .308? If you have the answer for that, fine, but to me it's not logical.
Now days, even if you're not a handloader, you can get that Hornady Leverlution stuff for your 336 Marlin and get the most out of a .30-30 with a handy little lever gun even without handloading. The .30-30 is a great old round even today and Hornady has given it a new lease on life, but I see no great market for it in bolt guns, probably why there's none built today. The main reason the round was chambered in the Savage 340 in the first place is that the Savage was a low end gun and couldn't handle the pressures of a higher pressure round like the .308. It had one locking lug and the action was more Mannlicher than Mauser in design with the bolt acting as the safety lug. The 788 was a stronger gun and was chambered in .308 so the .30-30 in that rifle always sort of baffled me. Indeed, it didn't sell well and didn't last that long in the 788.
All JMHO. Don't think I'm badmouthing the .30-30 'cause I've always appreciated the round. I liked that old Savage, bought it when I was a teenager and didn't have the cash for anything higher priced and it sure was a good little rifle for me. I still load and shoot .30-30 in my Contender and it makes a dandy Contender round for deer and hogs, need nothing more, and it's easy to shoot compared to some of the cannon rounds the Encore is chambered for or the .45-70 which is a bit much unless you're after Moose or something. But, I've moved on with my bolt guns. I have my old .257 Roberts in an old M722 Remington (MUCH finer gun than a 788 ever dreamed of being), my Savage in 7mm Remington Magnum, and my M7 in .308. The Remington is all I use now days. I feel all my bases are covered with what I hunt or may hunt as far as bolt guns are concerned.
Oh, BTW, the statement that the 7.62x39 is MORE powerful than the .30-30 is bogus. In fact, the .30-30 is capable of more energy shooting a heavier bullet. The 7.62x39 is close, but no cigar.
I have a couple of SKS rifles, one I sporterized with a scope and such. I don't know, I just got carried away sporterizing it. I have it set up for night hunting hogs now, lighted reticule scope, spotlight mounted on it. It's okay to 100 yards, but only shoots about 3MOA, not even close to my bolt guns and not really competitive with a good lever gun in .30-30. I really only have it because it was cheap ($75) and was fun to dress up. As a useful hunting tool, it isn't really that great.Its a great round, you don't need a 7mm mega magnum to kill a deer. Also if you live in a place like south western PA shots over 200 yards are unheard of. Also its fun to not have to worry about a bruised shoulder, helps you concentrate more on what your aiming at. After I got the iron sights fixed on my savage 840 I can shoot 1" groups at a hundred yards standing up, pretty good for such a innacuratte useless bolt rilfe chambered for such a terrible round.
MCgunner
Member
One inch groups off hand standing at 100 yards???? Dude, you ever shoot competition...and with irons no less????
You're a friggin' human machine rest!
You're a friggin' human machine rest!defiant73a
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Rimmed - check
Relatively low pressure round - check
Offers the choice of round nosed bullets - check
Sounds to me like a .303 British--a quintessential bolt action round--though it has been chambered in at least one lever action.
A rim does not make a lever-action round (just ask all the Mosin-Nagant shooters). Rimmed bolt action rounds played a significant role in most (or all) the conflicts of the past century.
If you want to say the .30-30 is traditionally (or more commonly) found in lever-guns fine and good, but that does not make it a lever-gun cartidge (nor should it limit it to lever-guns).
Davo
Member
Both are great rounds for deer up close, both can be uploaded by handloaders. Id be fine with either.
superpelly
Member
The 1st deer i shot (12 yrs old) was using the Steven's mentioned above. I shot it from a distance of about 50 yards clean shot in the vitals. It was running, I think I just pointed and shot and got lucky. When my dad skinned the deer we found the mushroomed bullet embedded in the hide, almost a full exit, not bad for a little 30-30.
browningguy
Member
Back to the original question.
The reason no one chambers a 30-30 in a bolt gun is because all 7 people that wanted one already have one, so there is no more market.
The reason no one chambers a 30-30 in a bolt gun is because all 7 people that wanted one already have one, so there is no more market.
cracked butt
Member
Listing to the raving on this forum, I'm starting to think that a project for building a bolt action rifle in .25acp is a good idea regardless of the notion that the .25acp is 'traditionally (or more commonly) found in small semi-automatic pocketguns. Regardless of the technical problems involved and the marginal performance gains by chambering a rifle in .25acp, and regardless of the fact that there are already cartridges similar to if not greater in performance that are already chambered in bolt action rifles (.22lr for example) I think the .25acp bolt action rifle would be a huge hit.
R.W.Dale
Member
No it would be like comparing 30-06 to 308 but with the 06 only able to use bullets with very poor BC and bragging that the 06 is more powerful but only inside 50 yds
You guys don't seem to understand that ALL 30-30 velocities are seriously overrated. To the tune of 200 FPS or more. I've seen many 170grn 30-30 loads not break 2000 fps with a 20" tube in various guns. 2250 FPS with a 150grn load would be a fast load.
My guess its that ammo MFG list velocities for 24" test barrels whereas 9 out of 10 30-30's have 20" or shorter barrels.
I agree that a 30-30 bolt gun is a square peg in a round hole. Been there done that and didn't buy the T-shirt.
If a new 30-30 bolt action is what you desire. The CZ527 in 7.62x39 is your best choice.
R.W.Dale
Member
Bolt actions in levergun rounds
Ruger 77/44 ; out of production
Gibbs 47/70 conversion ; out of production
remington 788 30-30 ; out of production
savage 340 ; out of production
Rem 700 in 35 rem ; out of production doesn't really belong in this group
HMMM I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
Ruger 77/44 ; out of production
Gibbs 47/70 conversion ; out of production
remington 788 30-30 ; out of production
savage 340 ; out of production
Rem 700 in 35 rem ; out of production doesn't really belong in this group
HMMM I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
superpelly
Member
yep, not a market for them. But i 'll keep my though 
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