superpelly
Member
Why don't the big gun manufactures make 30-30 bolt actions. Or maybe I'm just not looking hard enough? I have one, a Stevens Model 325 (made in1949) but why are they not out there anymore?
Why no 30-30 bolt actions?
- Thread starter superpelly
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JesseL
Member
I don't think there's much demand.
Most people buying a bolt action probably don't see any reason to get a 30-30 when they could have a 308.
Most people buying a bolt action probably don't see any reason to get a 30-30 when they could have a 308.
RNB65
Member
I suppose because the round nose 30-30 round was designed specifically for lever action rifles. With the 30-06 available, no one saw a need to chamber a bolt gun for 30-30.
Smokey Joe
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Bolt .30-30
Superpelly--There's the rim, also. The rim on a .30-30 makes it hard to feed from a box magazine, as compared to a rimless cartridge.
With the .30-'06, and then the .308, and since, a plethora of similar-sized rimless rounds, both larger and smaller than the .30-30--most recently, I guess, the 7.62x39, JesseL is probably right: It's lack of demand. Why futz with the rimmed cartridge?
Superpelly--There's the rim, also. The rim on a .30-30 makes it hard to feed from a box magazine, as compared to a rimless cartridge.
With the .30-'06, and then the .308, and since, a plethora of similar-sized rimless rounds, both larger and smaller than the .30-30--most recently, I guess, the 7.62x39, JesseL is probably right: It's lack of demand. Why futz with the rimmed cartridge?
mustanger98
Member
I have a Savage 340 in .30-30 which I think is late manufacture. Most guys I've run into at the range say they haven't seen one in 25 years.
Because I like it.
Because I can. Because this is America.
But I agree that there probably just wasn't so much demand.
Another think is they're scared somebody'll load spitzers in .30-30 cases because they can, and then somebody's going to load 'em into a levergun... spitzers + tube mags = bad juju. Therefore, I think liability played a big part in the early '80's.
Because I like it.
Because I can. Because this is America.But I agree that there probably just wasn't so much demand.
Another think is they're scared somebody'll load spitzers in .30-30 cases because they can, and then somebody's going to load 'em into a levergun... spitzers + tube mags = bad juju. Therefore, I think liability played a big part in the early '80's.
jerkface11
Member
CZ makes the 527 in 7.62x39 which performs nearly identically to .30-30. Or you could always get an old savage bolt action in .30-30 my dad has one he loves. Try gunbroker there are usually a few of them for sale.
mustanger98
Member
I read this comparison all the time, but just about everyone who makes it forgets several differences... bullet weight- 125gr vs 150 and 170gr- and the ft.lbs. involved to 300yds. As a deer hunter, I can't say I'd bother with 7.62x39.
JesseL
Member
mustanger98
Are you sure the differences are as significant as you think? Especially figuring the soviet rounds advantage in ballistic coefficient?
Corbon 7.62x39mm 150gr soft-point
Winchester 30-30 150gr soft-point
I'm not sure how many people consider the 30-30 a 300 yard deer rifle either.
Are you sure the differences are as significant as you think? Especially figuring the soviet rounds advantage in ballistic coefficient?
Corbon 7.62x39mm 150gr soft-point
Winchester 30-30 150gr soft-point
I'm not sure how many people consider the 30-30 a 300 yard deer rifle either.
Essex County
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There are used Savage 340s and Stevens 325s floating around, Not hard to find and the're no beauty queens. For an inexpensive rifle they can be quite accurate....Essex
Sniper X
Member
30-30 single shot too
You can get TC barrels iin 30-30 and a H&R single shot in 30-30 both of which are very accurate for a 30-30.
You can get TC barrels iin 30-30 and a H&R single shot in 30-30 both of which are very accurate for a 30-30.
qajaq59
Member
Blame old Johnny
I think it is mainly because John Wayne never carried a bolt action....
I think it is mainly because John Wayne never carried a bolt action....
jerkface11
Member
You're half right they don't really compare. The 154gr 7.62x39 outshines ANY .30-30 loading by a wide margin. Especially at extended ranges.
superpelly
Member
Yep, I have a Stevens, model 325. I was cleaning it yesterday and just wondered why you don't see 30-30's in a bolt action.
This was my 1st deer hunting rifle when I was 12 years old (1977) It was so easy to use, and the kick is mild, shot my 1st deer with it. Great 1st gun for a yougster. Can't wait till my 4 year old to use it someday.
This was my 1st deer hunting rifle when I was 12 years old (1977) It was so easy to use, and the kick is mild, shot my 1st deer with it. Great 1st gun for a yougster. Can't wait till my 4 year old to use it someday.
R.W.Dale
Member
30-30 vs 7.62x39
154grn wolf
100yd ZERO = -6.8" at 200yds @1205 FTlbs
*************************
150grn Corelokt
100yd ZERO= -7.6" at 200yds @858 FTlbs
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170grn Corelokt
100yd ZERO= -8.3" at 200yds @989 FTlbs
*************************
The wolf load has the same energy at 100 yds as a 170grn 30-30 bullet. These figures DO NOT take into account the rather overly optimistic factory velocities on 30-30 ammo
In fact the $4 per box wolf has almost identical energy and trajectory as the 160grn leverevolution
Nope no comparison at all
154grn wolf
100yd ZERO = -6.8" at 200yds @1205 FTlbs
*************************
150grn Corelokt
100yd ZERO= -7.6" at 200yds @858 FTlbs
*************************
170grn Corelokt
100yd ZERO= -8.3" at 200yds @989 FTlbs
*************************
The wolf load has the same energy at 100 yds as a 170grn 30-30 bullet. These figures DO NOT take into account the rather overly optimistic factory velocities on 30-30 ammo
In fact the $4 per box wolf has almost identical energy and trajectory as the 160grn leverevolution
Nope no comparison at all
Jackal
Member
All this discussion just reminds me why I love my little Mini-Mauser chambered in 7.62x39. With a 2-5x Pentax scope and loaded with Barnaul HP's, this will put a full magazine(4 rounds)into 1 ragged hole at 50 yards, as long as I do my part . All in a small, handy, light package. Yup, for deer and 'yotes out to 200 yards, beware.
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bonza
Member
7.62 Bullet Weights (Krochus)
Are you sure the 7.62x39 comes in a 154gn bullet weight? I thought they were pretty much restricted to 122-125gn in factory loaded ammo. Now, the 7.62x54R use a 154gn bullet, but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax! Of course, I could be mistaken, if you could point me to the data I'd appreciate it.
Are you sure the 7.62x39 comes in a 154gn bullet weight? I thought they were pretty much restricted to 122-125gn in factory loaded ammo. Now, the 7.62x54R use a 154gn bullet, but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax! Of course, I could be mistaken, if you could point me to the data I'd appreciate it.
mustanger98
Member
And most of the numbers quoted probably came from the marketing department. I look at this from a handloader's point of view too. Ya'll really expect a hunter to believe a 7.62x39 with a heavy bullet is going to have the ummph at range a .30-30 (7.62x51R) has at range? The heavier bullet means less powder in an already reduced case. Figure the powder's burn time in a barrel the same length or shorter and and figure the different in fps. How's the trajectory?
According to Jim Carmichael's article in Outdoor Life... he was talking about Point Blank Zero, Winchester's 150gr Silvertip has a maximum PBZ of 250yds. So if the rifle is sighted in to shoot the pipe- the trajectory being inside Minute Of Deer Vitals to 250yds- and the deer is at a known distance of 300yds, it only takes aiming for the top of the deer's back to drop the bullet into the kill zone. How many people have figured that out remains to be seen. Mine Winchester's sighted in to do it to 200yds with CoreLokts, or if I use a handload I'll sight it to do pretty much the same. All I have to do for 300 is hold a mite higher.
With regard to bolt action and single-shot .30-30's, a 150gr spitzer turns it into a surer 300yd deal. Ever read Layne Simpson's article in Shooting Times a while back? Or are the 7.62x39 bigots too busy looking down their noses at an old rimmed cartridge?
According to Jim Carmichael's article in Outdoor Life... he was talking about Point Blank Zero, Winchester's 150gr Silvertip has a maximum PBZ of 250yds. So if the rifle is sighted in to shoot the pipe- the trajectory being inside Minute Of Deer Vitals to 250yds- and the deer is at a known distance of 300yds, it only takes aiming for the top of the deer's back to drop the bullet into the kill zone. How many people have figured that out remains to be seen. Mine Winchester's sighted in to do it to 200yds with CoreLokts, or if I use a handload I'll sight it to do pretty much the same. All I have to do for 300 is hold a mite higher.
With regard to bolt action and single-shot .30-30's, a 150gr spitzer turns it into a surer 300yd deal. Ever read Layne Simpson's article in Shooting Times a while back? Or are the 7.62x39 bigots too busy looking down their noses at an old rimmed cartridge?
jerkface11
Member
I have nothing against .30-30. I only suggested 7.62x39 since the man wants a bolt action and the two are similar with 7.62x39 having the edge.
As for the 154gr loading http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=764528
It shoots good too.
As for the 154gr loading http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=764528
It shoots good too.
A rimmed round could make things a little more tricky, but remember there have been lots of bolt guns chambered for rimmed rounds. The Lee Enfield was chambered for the .303, the P-14 for the .303 (the design of which was modified later for the rimless .30-06 a la M1917), the Mosins in 7.62x54 and oodles of .22 rimfires. Just needs to be designed or redesigned properly.
Wolf loads 154 and there is the 150 grain loading that another poster mentioned. For woodland hunting ranges, which ought be less than 100 usually, the 7.62x39 ought be fine. I don't think it's a 300 yard round, but for through 100 to 150 it should perform just fine.
JesseL
Member
FACT the 7.62x39mm can shoot 150gr bullets
FACT the 7.62x39mm will shoot those 150gr bullets to velocities within 200fps of the 30-30, also firing 150gr bullets.
FACT typical ballistic coefficients for bullets suitable for the 30-30 are around .180, coefficients for bullets suitable for 7.62x39mm are more like .350-.410. These bullets will of course have exactly the same sectional density.
FACT while the 30-30 has more case capacity, the 7.62x39mm is rated to higher pressures.
So, while the 30-30 has an edge over the 7.62x39 (especially if you can load it with spitzers), that edge is pretty thin.
FACT the 7.62x39mm will shoot those 150gr bullets to velocities within 200fps of the 30-30, also firing 150gr bullets.
FACT typical ballistic coefficients for bullets suitable for the 30-30 are around .180, coefficients for bullets suitable for 7.62x39mm are more like .350-.410. These bullets will of course have exactly the same sectional density.
FACT while the 30-30 has more case capacity, the 7.62x39mm is rated to higher pressures.
So, while the 30-30 has an edge over the 7.62x39 (especially if you can load it with spitzers), that edge is pretty thin.
SDC
Member
Savage, Remington, and Winchester all made bolt-action 30-30s, and I even see the occasional Schmidt-Rubin straight-pull that has been converted to 30-30 (excuse me while I find a corner 
)
)R.W.Dale
Member
Actually us HANDLOADERS who own a chrony find the difference is much less than that.
Ammo Weight 20"bbl 14"bbl
Remington
Express 170 2012 1947
Hornady
Evolution 160 2287 2167
Federal
Fusion 150 2313 2202
PMC
Bronze 150 2211 2156
Winchester
Power Point 150 2234 2134
154grn Wolf 154 2200FPS from my 18" barrel
OH and for the Luddites out there I do own a winchester 94 and have handloaded spitzers in a Savage bolt gun. The 7.62x39 does everything better and cheaper. I can eve match actual 20" 170grn 30-30 velocities with the CZ 7.62x39 using 170grn 30-30 bullets
I have no use whatsoever for what some advertiser/gunwriter takes time to expound apoun I think recent events have taught everyone just how full of the warm gooey stuff they can be. I let my chrony and targets do the talking when it comes to ballistics.
jrfoxx
Member
I too have a Savage 340 in .30-30, made in the early 60's or so I believe.I like it just because it was free, and for the fact that you DONT see many bolt 30-30's (I'm a sucker for oddities).Now that I have gotten back into reloading, I plan to see what I can do with it for fun.It's not all that pretty, but I've certainly seen uglier...
R.W.Dale
Member
The problems with modern 30-30 loads in the Savage 340 are the very limited magazine length and the single locking lug. With conventional loadings mine would shoot great but any kind of +P loads would cause the POI to shift wildly to the upper left and in the process open up groups dramatically. Brass life was also rather brief.
A single shot opens up your bullet choices, But again without more robust cases you get into some of the same issues. I'm rather surprised there isn't +P spec 30-30 brass avalible.
A single shot opens up your bullet choices, But again without more robust cases you get into some of the same issues. I'm rather surprised there isn't +P spec 30-30 brass avalible.
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