Would you shoot ?

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Over the fence. I'm pushing forty (real hard by now) and not in the best shape of my life. But we're talking about a kid getting mauled by dogs. Over the fence, into the pack and shooting at contact distance. When I'm out of ammo, pull a knife.

There's a time to weigh the odds and risk asessment. Then there's a time to say "screw it, I'm in". The immortal words of Sgt Maj. Daly seem to apply here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Daly
 
Skribs said:
If there was a chance you could save him, yes. But the situation you will be in - possibly injured from the fall, in the dog's own territory, probably unfamiliar with that breed's mentality and physiology, outnumbered, and the kid's probably already a goner. It's like jumping into a volcano to try and save someone.

You were close (and I just realized it the other day, I'm no longer early twenties): I'm mid-twenties, single, not a father.
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Gotcha. Well like I said man, I meant no disrespect and hope you didn't feel any. There are a number of really intelligent people on this board with a lot of experience and wisdom to contribute, and I count you among those individuals; and I get the impression many others do as well. Thanks for your input and honesty.
 
No, it’s not, though to be fair before I had a kid I might have taken your position.
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The ironic thing is that it makes more sense (if you can call it that) to jump in when you are single and unmarried, as opposed to when you have a family to take care of. Likewise most guys give up their risky habits when the wife and especially kids come along. Motorcycles especially Just thinking out loud. I get what you are saying though.
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If there was a chance you could save him, yes. But the situation you will be in - possibly injured from the fall, in the dog's own territory, probably unfamiliar with that breed's mentality and physiology, outnumbered, and the kid's probably already a goner. It's like jumping into a volcano to try and save someone.
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And a great many parents would do that.

If there is a chance...no matter how small...there is still a chance.
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Pretty easy to tell who the parents are in this thread.

I'm a father of two girls who amaze me and steal my heart every single day. Count me as jumping in after them. Wouldn't even think about it. Most likely after any 2 year old. Probably after any child who wasn't old enough to know better on their own.

I don't ride my motorcycle any more either. News reports of children getting hurt now make my physically ill, while as a single man I would shrug them off. Everything changes when you have little ones. You will do ANYTHING for them, consequences be damned.
 
I'm the guy who posted above, the Army trained us 2 to three days a week in killing dogs. I am in total agreement, I would have went in. I would not have survived on the best day I ever lived without backup. Best canine suppressant possible would have been a high pressure fire hose.
This is a situation of multiple, concurrent predator attacks by 50 to 80 pound predators. Only in a movie out of hollywoods fake factory could an individual clear these wolves off thier prey even with a 12 guage street sweeper. Still, I would make the attempt. My motivations for over 40 years have been guided by Robert Heinlein. Please Google: The Pragmatics of Patriotisim.

blindhari

Some times there are no good solutions, this does not negate the absolute necessity doing whatever you can.
 
Pretty easy to tell who the parents are in this thread.

I'm a father of two girls who amaze me and steal my heart every single day. Count me as jumping in after them. Wouldn't even think about it. Most likely after any 2 year old. Probably after any child who wasn't old enough to know better on their own.

I don't ride my motorcycle any more either. News reports of children getting hurt now make my physically ill, while as a single man I would shrug them off. Everything changes when you have little ones. You will do ANYTHING for them, consequences be damned.
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My dad says the same thing when these things happen.

I do think though that you don't have to be a parent to be willing to offer your life for your family. Kids, parents, siblings, heck, maybe even cousins...
 
Lawsuit? Seriously? The mother put the 2 yr. old on top of the fence! She should be charged. And if she has charge of any more children they should be taken away for their safety.
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I could imagine how the mother could sue for a lack of protection from falling in.
 
Skribs said:
I hope so, considering last time I went to the zoo...
(It wasn't posted, and even if it was, there's the whole "not illegal, but potentially trespassing" issue).

I also have to ask, all these people who would "run in"...how much experience do you have with wild predators, especially those who are currently eating?
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I have 2 sons and 4 grandchildren. There would be only one reaction and thats over the fence and killing dogs.
 
FIVETWOSEVEN said:
I could imagine how the mother could sue for a lack of protection from falling in.
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Anybody can sue anybody for anything, unless specifically prohibited.

Good sense says, IMO, that the moment she stood the kid up on the rail/barrier/whatever, it was squarely her fault/her negligence.
 
The idea of jumping in to defend the kid is a noble one, but utterly unrealistic.

Nobody in this thread could have made the jump down fast enough to save the child.

Taking a shot would require careful aim, unless you're shooting only to make noise. In the first case, the child won't have enough time for you to make that shot. In the second case, there's no guarantee the dogs would pay any attention, especially given the distance and elevation involved.

I've seen what similar-sized patrol dogs can do to an adult human through a training pad. (And these dogs look to have a much harder bite than a shepherd, looking at the jaw shape.) The child was very likely doomed from the first or second bite, which would have come very quickly.
 
If it were my child, there would be dead dogs. If it would be another customer's of the zoo child, there be dead dogs. Because what if it would be your child? I dont know of anyone that would just let that happen to a child with out intervention. If there is someone out there that sees their child getting maulled and does nothing, they need to be tested and have their breeding rights taken away, because thats just sick that someone could turn their back on their own child.
 
Are all the "If it were my child . . . " people saying they'd put their kid up on that fence? Really?

Because if you aren't, you're talking about a completely different hypothetical situation.
 
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Lots of good cheap talk, bluster, and second guessing here. Not much reality though.

If you had asked everyone standing around the fence before the child fell in (including it's parents) if they would immediately jump in to help a child that fell into the dogs, every one of them would have said "YES!".
 
Lots of good cheap talk, bluster, and second guessing here. Not much reality though.
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Yep....that pretty much sums it up. Might even be a couple of cracked ribs from all the chest-thumping.

The mother involved is an idiot and should be both charged and haunted.
.
 
In this case IMHO its a bad situation. In many cases there is no solution to a bad situation that will improve it (as the "solution" was to not sit the kid up on the fence to start with).

Take the shots - IF you can even have a concealed weapon in that particular zoo - and you may hit the child. Jump in and I don't care how tough a guy you think you are, 11 wild dogs will kill you just as easily as the child.

Honestly, once the dogs had the child it was lost. The logical course of action is to wait for the appropriate zoo staff or authorities to do what needs to be done.

Now I'm not a parent but I have 3 young nieces, 2 of which have lived with me off and on since birth due to my sister having an unstable financial situation. I care for them as much as any parent cares for their child. If it were one of them, then I couldn't take the logical course of action, nor would I expect the parent or relative of any child that fell in to. I'd rather die trying to help than to live knowing that I didn't.

That said though, that's the emotional response. When it hits close enough to home we can't help to give in to it, but emotional responses get you killed and generally don't improve situations. The response "what if it were YOUR child" doesn't make any sense as you're trying to put bystanders into the parent's shoes, when the parent is going to be the least likely person to make a good choice at this point.
 
Military or cop

We have run toward gunfire and not actually known we would survive.

That is my answer to any who say they would stay their hand from this possible confrontation.

I am now 65 years old and it might kill me to make it over that fence = dont mean I would not at very least try VERY hard to go.

And I am amazed that none did,I cannot fathom that there were no EX military,LEO's at that scene.

I am NOT brave,just stubborn and I do know my limitations.

Dont mean I will stand by and allow such to happen in my presence.

There are things worth dying for.That which I could not live with myself for ignoring.
 
Lots of good cheap talk, bluster, and second guessing here. Not much reality though.
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Reality is the child may have already been dead from the fall...
 
After 9mmepiphany's post about the enclosure, it doesn't appear as simple as in the initial report or the assumption in the bulk of the responses that one would need to just hop over a fence. Observation deck, high plexiglass, quite possibly a very small opening at the top. Most of us aren't going to be physically able to do that, let alone with anything resembling hero-speed.

I'm the guy who posted above, the Army trained us 2 to three days a week in killing dogs.
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What MOS did you have that you spent nearly half your time training to kill a dog?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVtZiCyBBN4

Three painted dogs take down a full grown (~400lb) female greater Kudu.

In under a minute.

Efficient.

It stands to reason, that the amount of time you have to react, on a pack of 11 dogs vs. a 2 year old child, would be measured in a few heartbeats.

Sure, they're only the size of your family German shepherd. But they're a hell of a lot closer to their wolf ancestors in lineage and demeanor.
 
Given the speed and chaos of what I saw in the two videos I posted above.

#1 You wouldn't have time to climb the fence. Kid would be dead in seconds.
#2 You wouldn't have a clear shot. Those things MOVE.
#3 I seriously doubt you're going to scare them away. Not that there'd be time anyway.

Nope, this one was over from the start, sadly. Nature is simply more efficient at killing than man is, sometimes.
 
The only way I can see that you could fire a shot and not risk hitting the child, would be if you jumped in yourself and got very close.

Which is just about the same dilemma you would have in a crowded auditorium, like a movie theater or church service.

You would have to put yourself in very real danger.... that starts with taking a long jump off of a wall.

So the question, as I see it, is much akin to a "what would you do in such and such a combat scenario", and unless a person has been in that situation, I'm skeptical that anyone can answer the question with anything but pride or prudence. You won't ever KNOW, until you know.

I'd like to think that I could have and would have made a difference.... but the only honest answer I can give is "I don't know, I wasn't there"


OBTW....The article I read about this stated that there was reason to believe the child may have died from the fall.... and it sounds like the screeming was done by the witnesses.
 
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I hope some of you people are never around me if I need help. Ever.! How could someone say,"how good a shot are you?"; fear you may hit the child; you are responsible for every bullet you fire; that's sick. First in order to carry concealed you have to take a test don't you? You have to be able to hit a target a reasonable distance don't you? Well if you can't hit a dog in the rear quarter [you don't have to place it in his head] within let's say 20 yd's, you should not be carrying anything but maybe a cane. There was a child's life at stake here. Not some political I'm right, you are wrong.
 
Go watch that second video and see how fast those things move.

We're not talking pictures of dogs stapled to a backstop.

We're talking about an animal that can drag an 80 pound Impala over 100 feet in 5 seconds, before the pack becomes a swirling mess of ligaments, gore, and fangs.
 
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