Mouse Guns - Backup or Last Defense ?

Whichever goes bang most reliably.

All 3 are "get off me" guns.

My primary CCW is a NAA .22LR mini with 1 1/8" bbl.

Reliable, accurate, hits to POA, and good stopping power with CCI 40 grain mini-mag hollow points.

It's about as "mouse gun" as you can possibly get, but I trust it to get me out of almost any defensive situation I can reasonably imagine myself being in.

I wouldn't feel unarmed with just an NAA mini revolver. In fact, I'd feel just fine with one of the new top break Ranger models and a speedloader.

But everything is relative. If I were up against some angry Mohammed's or Ali's with AK-47's then I wouldn't feel so confident with an NAA, but that's not what I'd be expecting and I can't go everywhere decked out in armor and M4 in anticipation of a terror attack. Mouse guns aren't meant for terror attacks, they're meant for drunk muggers and angry vagrants.

My primary CCW is a NAA .22LR mini with 1 1/8" bbl.

Reliable, accurate, hits to POA, and good stopping power with CCI 40 grain mini-mag hollow points.

It's about as "mouse gun" as you can possibly get, but I trust it to get me out of almost any defensive situation I can reasonably imagine myself being in.

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im sorry.....but a .22 out of a 1" barrel does NOT have "good stopping power"....

CCi Minimags out of a 1" barrel have a velocity of around 700FPS......that give you a whopping 44 ft-lbs of energy

thats dangerous for sure.....but that is not a serious primary carry weapon.

hell, i have pellet guns with more muzzle energy than that.

1) Kel-Tec P-32

2) H&R .32 S&W (short)

3) Taurus PT-22

4) Bauer .25 ACP

I put the .25 ACP last because I just don't think it offers much, I guess you could debate whether its better than the .22LR, but I don't think it is.

Please rate these in order that you would use them, not use them, or your other opinions of them.

Kel-Tec P-32, Taurus PT-22, H&R .32 S&W (short), and Bauer .25 ACP.
Hint : My primary CCW is a S&W model 638.

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OK, my first choice for a backup would be your primary...A 15oz 5-shot .38spl is not going to be a fun gun to shoot at the range (thus less practice than something bigger/heavier), it won't give fast follow-up shots due to the recoil, and 5-shots of .38+P is far from my ideal in a self-defense situation. Thus, my version of the lightweight J-frame (S&W 442) only sees use as a backup pocket gun, and really has been replaced in that role by an LCP and a Pf-9. I definitely wouldn't want to use it as a primary, I'd use a heavier gun (if a small 5-shot J-frame works for you, use a steel framed version for better follow up shots and a greater likelihood you'll practice with it more often). I do sometimes like my 442 when paired with my 85CH, 10 shots of .38+P makes me feel much more "warm and fuzzy" than 5.

So my vote:
1st: Convert the 638 to backup use
2nd: Kel Tec P32
3rd: H&R .32S&W (more powerful than a .25ACP and .22LR, revolver reliability)
4th: Taurus P22, if it is more reliable than the .25ACP (more powerful than .25ACP, though rimfires aren't always reliable in an auto).
5th: Bauer .25ACP. Dead last for two reasons...I don't really trust .25ACP for defense (can be a fun range toy), and the Bauer, while a really nice gun, is pretty expensive for carry and defense these days. If you want to go with the .25ACP, I would keep the Bauer as an interesting range toy/collectible, and get a less expensive .25ACP for carry (my choice would be the Beretta Jetfire or 21).

TruthTellers said:

I wouldn't feel unarmed with just an NAA mini revolver. In fact, I'd feel just fine with one of the new top break Ranger models and a speedloader.

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Thank you. I had no idea they were to be reintroduced. Will be watching for the price, as I think that would be an awfully cool thing to have. For the right price...

Over the years, I carried a number of them as back ups. Colt .25's, Baby Brownings, P32, Seecamps, etc. I still have the Seecamps and an LCP, but they dont get out much anymore. The smallest I go these days, and whats replaced the above in their capacity, is a Glock 26.

Personally, I see them as "last ditch", and not even "back ups" anymore. If I were to carry one, it would be "third line". With whats available today, both in guns and holster choices, I really dont see the point in them. You can easily carry realistic, and more shootable guns in their place.


I also have a S&W 4th model top break in 32 S&W (short). As cute as it is, I would not choose that at all. Its a fun toy, but thats about it. With the black powder loads I feed it (its a black powder era gun), it has similar recoil as a .38, yet wont pierce my burn barrel at 5 yards.

I own three of your four, and not the H&R.

I frequently carry the P32 as a backup or, at least, in whichever vehicle I just got out of (it's carried to and from that vehicle when I leave from/arrive at home.)

The PT-22 never gets carried because it can't fit anywhere the KT doesn't.

When traveling to and from my no-carry job site, and on a few other occasions, the KT gets moved to "first up." In some of those cases, the Bauer moves into it's BUG spot.

The Bauer is the only one of those I consider to be potentially unsafe carried with a round in the chamber.

we differ

I often carry a S&W dao 'J' frame in my pocket as a BUG for primarys [ G-23 / 27 ].

So your behind the '8' ball as far as caliber.

BUT I have also carried a Ruger LCP in pocket as well as MANY smaller calibers = as I call them "eye,ear,nose,throat" guns.

Meaning I know that I MUST get the smaller gun INTO one of those cavitys for them to be effective.

Preferably a "contact" shooting as that is how they will be most effective [ as much as they can be ].

Be prepared for "body parts" to be splattered on you ,causing you to be distracted and possibly losing some sight due to mess.

I would go with the Kel-Tec .32 as the best choices you have offered.

1) KelTec P32
2) Taurus PT22
3) H&R .32 S&W
4) Bauer .25 ACP

My own preference would be more like:

Primary-S&W Model 638
1) SIG P238
2) KelTec P3AT
3) Baby Browning

Gun Master said:

Kel-Tec P-32, Taurus PT-22, H&R .32 S&W (short), and Bauer .25 ACP.
Hint : My primary CCW is a S&W model 638.

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I'll go with the S&W 638 and the KelTec P32.

This mirrors my similar carry with a Taurus 85UL and a Taurus TCP732.

I own the Taurus PT-22's near duplicate in a Beretta Bobcat and it is much less reliable than the two guns I mention. The Bauer, I'd just enjoy it at the range once in a while. If the H&R is a late 20th century gun with a swing out cylinder, I'd consider it. If it is an early 20th century gun with a break open action, I would save it as a range gun.

Just my opinion.

When you have that Desert Eagle hanging off your belt the only thing extra you can add is a gun that is ≤ 7 ounces, otherwise your suspenders are going to snap and your pants will fall down.

One non-constructive post and several replies to it have been deleted. Let's please discuss this without getting into logical fallacies.

Backup guns are not a consideration where I live. State law only allows one gun to be carried concealed in New Mexico. If I could carry a second gun, it would be a .380 caliber and probably a SIG P238.

ive had some interest in these types of weapons as well, maybe not necessarily for a backup to self defense, but perhaps as a very lightweight, compact survival tool as any of these seem to match or surpass .22lr.. i would think the rimless cartridges being easier and more reliable in a semi automatic, which has less gas leak and potentially more energy would be a bit of an improvement over the rimmed cartridges

I like 32 revolvers. But I am not sure if 32 S&W short is any better than 32acp.

My 380 version of your Kel-Tec has been a great gun for me. I have heard good things about the 32acp version and would like to try one.

To me, and this is personal prejudice, I don't feel "armed" with a 22 or 25, though I do have a PT22 (just for fun) and have heard good things about the 25 Baer.

Hint : My primary CCW is a S&W model 638.

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Get a 2nd 638 and drop in the other front pant pocket. My 638 will fit my Levi's.
This way, you don't introduce a 2nd gun that runs dry in a 2nd caliber. Don't reload your 638, just grab the other 638.

Tallball said:

I like 32 revolvers. But I am not sure if 32 S&W short is any better than 32acp.

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I can answer this: no. .32 S&W Short is as obsolete a centerfire handgun cartridge as .38 Long Colt is. The only reason the two still exist is cowboy action shooting, nostalgia, and the reloading market. .32 ACP is an acceptable round for self defense, it's readily available and has good hollow points being made for it.

I sometimes carry S&W 2214, it is accurate and reliable with good 22lr ammo.
I can place two to three rounds a second wherever I choose.

I once read a forum comment to the effect that the difference between bare hands and a small caliber gun is greater than the difference between a .22 and a .45.

I agree.

Of the guns listed, I'd go with the KelTec; I tried one which was completely reliable, though my accuracy at the 25 yard line was . . . embarrassing. (Admittedly, this is WELL beyond the engagement envelope for most self defense applications, but still . . . ) Not my first - or even second or third - choice, but better than bare hands.

For the others, the .32 short is a current oddball, likely with some ammo supply issues, I've never been impressed with the reliability of Bauer .25s, and I've had enough misfires from rimfire ammo over the past few decades to not want to put my faith in it for self defense, given a viable alternative.

FWIW, my "always" gun is an S&W 340Sc, a Scandium alloy, titanium cylinder J-frame .357 that easily slips in my pocket every day in a Mika pocket holster.

My main BUG is a KelTec P32, and has been for many years. It is BU to a primary .45 ACP. It is also my "always" gun, being in my pocket, even if I run out of the house without my primary. The only other BUG I had is a Taurus PT-22, which is now a grab and go fun gun, nothing more. But it can be pressed into service again, should the P32 ever be on the fritz. It was always just as dependable, just not quite as small. I cannot think of a better BUG than the P32. The P3AT and LCP are likely better, but they didn't exist when I bought the P32, and the difference is not worth the expense of replacing it.