Details of New Executive Actions to be Announced Jan.5

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No minimum threshold. Apparently you become a criminal when the executive deems it prudent. This cannot possibly pass a challenge; with no parameters? Surely it can't.
 
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We will see where this goes. In the meantime, I just finished up a couple of private sales just to be safe. Here we go again!
 
All this pathos and alarm and homicides at a lower level than the Nelsons and the Beaver in idyllic 1950.

It is truly pathetic. 12 months and 16 days to be rid of the worst POTUS in American history. It cannot come soon enough.
 
Gun Control Wish List....

All Secret Service Details...
Must use bullet buttons and have a 10rd mag limit.
No collapsible stocks or flash supressors on weapons that were pre-94.
May use a Sig Brace, however, they may not be fired from the shoulder and must be strapped to the forearm. Don't get caught doing thus on youtube either!
May not use Black Talons. FMJ only.
Issue handgun magazines are restricted to 10rds even if the original design was to hold 17+.
Strip clubs and casinos are declared as Gun Free zones.
Must secure weapons in vehicles before entering and establishment posted "No Concealed Carry"

Anything I miss?
 
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man am i glad i sold belongings and stripped paychecks accodingly to get 2 ARs, an AK, a Browning Hi Power, Stevens 67, and even got an Arisaka coming. If they allow me nothing else, I won't be happy but I wouldn't be too bad off. Let's hope they don't decide 10 years from now to go door to door.
 
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...tive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our
Summary as follows -

If you're in the business of dealing guns you need an FFL. <DUH> If you've ignored this they're going to tighten up and bust you. This should be just people dealing, but there's no minimums.

They're going to put 200 more ATF agents on the job.

They're going to put 230 new ATF staff on NICS and spend money on technical improvements.

They're going to require background checks on everyone being named on NFA trusts or for corps buying NFA (machine guns, suppressors, etc.) in the future.

They're going to require dealers that have lost guns in shipping to report them to the ATF.

They're going to spend $500,000,000 to improve mental health services to help prevent people with problems getting their hands on a gun and doing something crazy with them.

They're going to get Social Security to tell NICS if you are receiving benefits for mental health problems. <That's going to get challenged>

They're going to push states to tell NICS if you've had mental health problems. <That's going to get challenged>

They're going to have the Fed pay for smart gun research and testing and have the agencies "evaluate" if they're compatible with their mission with the intent of the agency using them.

The President and Vice President are <Blah, blah, guns bad, blah>the Administration is announcing a series of commonsense executive actions designed to:

blah, blah, blah

Consistent with court rulings on this issue, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has clarified the following principles:
A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms regardless of the location in which firearm transactions are conducted. For example, a person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions at gun shows or through the Internet. Those engaged in the business of dealing in firearms who utilize the Internet or other technologies must obtain a license, just as a dealer whose business is run out of a traditional brick-and-mortar store.
Quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators. There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement. But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.” For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present.

Require background checks for people trying to buy some of the most dangerous weapons and other items through a trust or corporation. The National Firearms Act imposes restrictions on sales of some of the most dangerous weapons, such as machine guns and sawed-off shotguns. But because of outdated regulations, individuals have been able to avoid the background check requirement by applying to acquire these firearms and other items through trusts, corporations, and other legal entities. Blah, blah, number grew, blah. ATF is finalizing a rule that makes clear that people will no longer be able to avoid background checks by buying NFA guns and other items through a trust or corporation.

Improve state reporting to NICS. Ensure States are providing records to the background check system, and work cooperatively with jurisdictions to improve reporting.

Make NICS more efficient with 230 new ATFers and tech improvements.

Funding for 200 new ATF agents and investigators for enforcement


Dealers to be required to notify law enforcement about the theft or loss of dealer guns in shipping. ATF issued a final rule clarifying that the licensee shipping a gun is responsible for notifying law enforcement upon discovery that it was lost or stolen in transit.


New $500 million investment to increase access to mental health services

Information from the Social Security Administration to be used in the background check system about beneficiaries. The reporting that SSA, in consultation with the Department of Justice, is expected to require will cover appropriate records of the approximately 75,000 people each year who have a documented mental health issue, receive disability benefits, and are unable to manage those benefits because of their mental impairment, or who have been found by a state or federal court to be legally incompetent. The rulemaking will also provide a mechanism for people to seek relief from the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm for reasons related to mental health.

The Department of Health and Human Services issued a final rule expressly permitting certain HIPAA covered entities to provide to the NICS limited demographic and other necessary information about individuals receiving mental health care.

As the single largest purchaser of firearms in the country, the Federal Government has a unique opportunity to advance smart gun technology and ensure it becomes a reality. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Department of Defense, Department of Justice, and Department of Homeland Security to increase research and development efforts, conduct or sponsor research, promote the use and acquisition of new technology. The Presidential Memorandum also directs the departments to review the availability of smart gun technology on a regular basis, and to explore potential ways to further its use and development to more broadly improve gun safety. In connection with these efforts, the departments will consult with other agencies that acquire firearms and take appropriate steps to consider whether including such technology in specifications for acquisition of firearms would be consistent with operational needs.
 
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I remember not to long ago when people in this same forum said that Obummer could not touch us. And here he is trying to hurt us. And don't even get me started on HRC. We have many, many more years of pain ahead.
 
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Thanks for the highlight; note that while all of this conversation has concerned sellers, that BUYERS are also included in this statement. I guess buyers will now have an affirmative responsibility to confirm their seller is licensed. Waiting for Frank to weigh in. It seems to me that with enforcement so completely subjective and arbitrary that this should not be able to stand a challenge. Frank?
 
"I remember not to long ago when pele in this same forum said that Obummer could not touch us. And here he is..."

... scratching and clawing at the bars wishing and wanting and fuming in impotent rage.
 
I don't think he's actually trying to do anything. It won't pass a court challenge. This is all fodder for the Nov election. He's setting up the evil witch as the common sense gun control candidate after the evil Republicans gut this one.
 
There's no new law here.

We knew that trusts were going to require background checks on the members.

We knew that unlicensed dealers were going to be targeted, but we didn't know they'd spend the money on new agents. That's assuming Congress will approve the money.

We didn't know they'd spend the money on improving mental health service access, but the money won't go far and won't stay budgeted.

We've been complaining about NICS and should be surprised that improvements are included.

We knew that Social Security would be told to provide mental health info to NICS, but no one believed they'd figure out a way to sell it as anything other than a HIPPA violation. I suspect this is the most vulnerable decision since there will be a flood of lawsuits to block it.

that BUYERS are also included in this statement

Sorry, I don't see that anywhere in the whitehouse.gov release.

Buyers aren't regulated in the requirement for an FFL, just the sellers so only those buying specifically for resale would be subject to dealer regs.
 
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They're going to get Social Security to tell NICS if you are receiving benefits for mental health problems. <That's going to get challenged>

They're going to push states to tell NICS if you've had mental health problems. <That's going to get challenged>

these are the really scary points to me.

who is to determine who is "too crazy to own a gun"?....is anyone who seeks mental health barred?

what if you are seeing a therapist to help you deal with the loss of a loved one, does that make you "too crazy" to own a gun?

to me, this is like saying people who undergo cancer treatment cannot own a firearm.....you are potentially removing the rights of people because they are getting medical treatment.


so if my mental health treatment means i cannot own a gun, all that is going to do is dissuade people from seeking mental health treatment.
 
Just a few curious questions:

If you sell guns on consigment via a LGS with a full FFL (who does background checks), would this new EO have any effect on you?

If you sell on GB, and the final transfer is done by the buyer's local FFL, would the EO effect you?
 
That NFA trust thing is not just pointing out existing law... It puts our suppressors back under the thumb of local potentates.
 
It puts our suppressors back under the thumb of local

We've been giggling for years about how clever we were avoiding the approval of the Local Law Enforcement Official by pulling a trust off the net and attorneys and others have been warning us that this wasn't the intent and that we were taking risks. This doesn't put approval of purchase into the hands of the local authorities where they, just a background check on everyone in the trust (it seems). See this https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download
 
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Interesting. If you read the text of the document, it looks like CLEO certification is going away. Though they have to be notified:

requires that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons, as applicable, be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located; and eliminates the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO
 
The fact that they will have 100% leeway on deciding who is or isnt in the "business" without any set guideline/rule is not good....:scrutiny:
 
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