Details of New Executive Actions to be Announced Jan.5

[MErl]

Curious, how many ATF agents are there now? Is 200 an addition 10% or 1%?

 

[Swing]

Curious, how many ATF agents are there now? Is 200 an addition 10% or 1%?

From the ATF site:

ATF has 4,803 employees, including 2,490 special agents and 780 industry operations investigators.

 

[R.W.Dale]

The fact that they will have 100% leeway on deciding who is or isnt in the "business" without any set guideline/rule is not good....

That's how the status quo has been for decades

 

[USAF_Vet]

The Attorney General convened a call with U.S. Attorneys around the country to direct federal prosecutors to continue to focus on smart and effective enforcement of our gun laws.

By this, do they really mean they are going to continue to focus on dumb and selective enforcement of our gun laws?

 

[The Exile]

Can we just be real here for a second? This smart gun stuff, it isn't happening. There exists no way for you to electronically freeze a gun that I, and I would guess most pro gun people, would be comfortable with. And it's the consumers who will ultimately decide where firearms go.

 

[X-Rap]

I suspect those new agents will be used to set up sting operations at gunshows and other FTF venues.
Aside from the pain those who get snared up in such i don't see immediate impacts, I think he is more intent on making this a discussion in this country with hopes he can add UBC to his legacy.
I've read that he is doing a national announcement tomorrow, town hall Q&A thursday on CNN and the topic will be high on his State of the Union speech.
He owns the narrative and with the help of the MSM that will continue through the rest of his term.
Watch how gun owners who do casual sales are depicted in his speeches and in media as well as half truths and outright lies about NFA items, internet sales and unlicensed dealers.

 

[Deog]

So they are going to spend well over 100 million and not really change anything.

 

[50 Shooter]

When do we march (armed) on DC?

 

[Gtscotty]

I suspect those new agents will be used to set up sting operations at gunshows and other FTF venues.

That was kind of my read as well. The law on private sales may not have changed, but their emphasis on how people have been prosecuted for selling as few as two guns sure does seem to hint that they intend to start harassing more normal private sellers as "unlicensed dealers". I just don't see how they could possibly characterize Joe shmoe who bought a couple guns a few years ago, and sold them this year, probably at a loss, as an unlicensed dealer. But then again, they don't have to win to ruin your life with court costs and lawyer fees.

 

[Ignition Override]

And if you were to decide to buy a single handgun/rifle from somebody who is Not a dealer?

Would this require a background check?

 

[JSH1]

And if you were to decide to buy a single handgun/rifle from somebody who is Not a dealer?

Would this require a background check?

Not by federal law. State law varies of course.

 

[JSH1]

The the short version is: Obama has press conference to announce he is doing nothing.

 

[crazed_ss]

Im a bit confused about the threshold and everything.

Are they going to ease up the rules for getting a FFL if they are really looking at people that sell as few as two guns?

It doesnt matter for me because Im in CA and we're already screwed, but will these new decrees make private sales a crapshoot? I mean, at any time the ATF can claim you're in business of selling guns even if it's just a couple incidental sales.

 

[steveracer]

Correction: He is holding a press conference to announce he is doing nothing AND it will cost five hundred million dollars.

 

[readyeddy]

Don't we always say that they should enforce the laws in place instead of passing more restrictions on our freedom?

 

[scchokedaddy]

Hmmmm, how many alcohol related and or drug related deaths in same time periods? Just wondering.

 

[grimjaw]

Are they going to ease up the rules for getting a FFL if they are really looking at people that sell as few as two guns?

I sincerely doubt they lessen the requirements for licensing. I don't know if it's possible within the scope of current law, but they might try to set up additional tiers of licensing, and the new onesy-twosy gun license takes twice as long to get (or longer). It will be argued that this is not a bar to transferring firearms between parties, because you'll be able to take it to an already licensed dealer and transfer there. For the different license tiers, you might have different levels of response for the background check. What we think of gun store dealers today (or I guess yesterday) will have the inside track to the 24-7 thing, while others might have to wait a few days.

To me, this seems more about a lame-duck president being used as a lightning rod. The Democratic presidential candidates can't take the lead on the issue without loss of appeal. If the measure proves to be extremely popular, they can jump on the bandwagon. If not, they aren't the ones that get flamed for it.

- jm

 

[TruthTellers]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...tive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our
Summary as follows -

If you're in the business of dealing guns you need an FFL. <DUH> If you've ignored this they're going to tighten up and bust you. This should be just people dealing, but there's no minimums.

They're going to get Social Security to tell NICS if you are receiving benefits for mental health problems. <That's going to get challenged>

They're going to push states to tell NICS if you've had mental health problems. <That's going to get challenged>

Since there's no minimums to define if you are in the business of selling firearms. Does that put a damper in the national UBC push since apparently a private individual can sell as many of his guns from his private collection as he wants without an NICS check?

For the mental health issues, what are the chances the challenges succeed and will they likely reach the supreme court? Actually, in the event Clinton doesn't win, wouldn't these become null and void if a Republican president passed an EO of his own?

 

[steveracer]

I see the mental health thing having HUGE repercussions for a lot of folks. I know that I would hesitate to seek counseling ESPECIALLY avoiding seeking VA benefits for things like PTSD. What happens when folks are concerned that seeking mental health care will result in not being able to buy firearms? You guessed it: They will stop seeking mental health care.

 

[RoscoeBryant]

And the worst part about this is, it may actually increase the events they want to reduce. While someone with a certain mental illness might be perfectly fine person while in professional treatement for that illness, it could be a whole different story if that illness remains untreated for years and years

 

[PabloJ]

Nothing to see here folks just keep moving.

Yes, old news. The few I own went through FFL with instant background approval. No problemo. Some that have unreasonable fear or suspicion of our government can only be helped with professional psychological counseling and or drugs.

 

[hso]

Don't we always say that they should enforce the laws in place instead of passing more restrictions on our freedom?

Yes, except when we want them to get rid of other laws (background checks make no difference in crime rates, NFA is a waste of time and money, etc.).


Quick summary from the news

• Hiring more people to run the FBI background check system, so the government can be "processing background checks 24 hours a day, 7 days a week."

• Requesting from Congress an additional $500 million to increase access to mental health care.

• Clarifying that people selling guns over the Internet can still be required to conduct background checks on buyers if they are "engaged in the business" of selling guns, not just a hobbyist. <they don't quite understand this one>



And here's the stuff discussed in the days before the announcement that is NOT in the package:

• A requirement that every gun sale in the country is proceeded by a criminal background check.

• A ban on gun sales to people on terrorist "no-fly" lists.

• A ban on large capacity magazines that hold a lot of bullets.

The reason for the difference is that the administration does not believe it has authority under existing laws to do the bigger stuff. So they are using administrative actions to squeeze the stuff out of the corners of existing laws.

 

[F-111 John]

White House Executive Orders Announced

President Obama picked up his pen and signed new executive orders he says will "Reduce Gun Violence and Make Our Communities (sic)."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...tive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our

One can only assume he meant it would attempt to make our communities safer. How has the President made our communities?

1) The ATF is finalizing rules that will redefine "responsible person" in an NFA trust, require that all "responsible persons" undergo background checks, and that the "responsible person's" CLEO will be notified of all NFA trust transfers.

Read the entire rule here: https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download

2) The Attorney General has directed all the regional U.S. Attorneys to keep up the good work (sarcasm) of enforcing existing gun laws. The President will also ask for funds in the FY2017 budget for an additional 200 ATF agents.

3) The Social Security Administration will begin reporting "information in the background check system about beneficiaries who are prohibited from possessing a firearm for mental health reasons." Since the Social Security Administration does not adjudicate the mental health of anyone, I'm not sure what information they will provide, but I suspect this will be along the same lines as the VA reporting was a couple of years ago, and anybody who uses Social Security benefits to seek any sort of mental health services will be reported as a prohibited person. (This is only speculation on my part for the moment.)

4) The President will direct the Departments of Defense, Justice, and Homeland Security to conduct or sponsor research into smart gun technology.

Gee, I feel safer already.

 

[45_auto]

Quote:
that BUYERS are also included in this statement

Sorry, I don't see that anywhere in the whitehouse.gov release.

Note that the statement specifically discusses firearms "transactions", not sales. A transaction can be a sale or purchase. They clarify it for you in the second sentence that you highlighted in red in your post #8:

There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement.

Want to buy a couple of guns? You could be a dealer in the eyes of the ATF if they decide that you are doing it as a business, which would be determined by the "other evidence" or "other factors" that are not specified.

It's the current law, no changes. Still ambiguous and up to the ATF if they want to prosecute you.

 

[Salmoneye]

The 200 new ATF agents, 230 NICS people, and the $500 Million for 'Health Care', all need to be funded by Congress in order to be implemented...