Trying to chose a 9x19 rifle
- Thread starter Girodin
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I got the Kriss out to the range the other day and have to say that thus far I am really happy with and feel good about the decision. I was about ready to buy an MP5 too but after putting about 300 rounds through the Kriss I'm rethinking that.
The Kriss ran like a top. The only issue was one round of perfecta did not fire. I had the same issue with another round of perfect in a different gun though.
I had read that the Kriss couldn't eject a live round. Mine spits them out without issue.
The trigger is decent and worlds better than my Sub 2K. With an aimpoint pro I was able to hit a steel silhouette at 100 yards with ease.
The safety was in a good place and easy to use. The bolt release seemed like using one on an AR. The position of the mag release is a bit different and reloads will take some getting used to but frankly with a last round bolt hold open and the bolt release I think they are easier/faster than with an MP5.
I was able to shoot a few other 9mm blow back guns to compare it to. The recoil seemed lower and although I wasn't able to get times with a shot timer, subjectively follow ups seemed faster with the Kriss. This may be a by product of its design that is said to mitigate recoil.
I didn't shoot it suppressed yet. I will note that its threads seem to be too long. The suppressor didn't seat all the way. I need to address that issue and then I will put some rounds through it with the suppressor.
It is difficult to get a real sense of a gun like this as it needs to be an SBR. I look forwarding to getting the form 1 back and then really getting to know the gun. That said my initial impression was pretty favorable.
The Kriss ran like a top. The only issue was one round of perfecta did not fire. I had the same issue with another round of perfect in a different gun though.
I had read that the Kriss couldn't eject a live round. Mine spits them out without issue.
The trigger is decent and worlds better than my Sub 2K. With an aimpoint pro I was able to hit a steel silhouette at 100 yards with ease.
The safety was in a good place and easy to use. The bolt release seemed like using one on an AR. The position of the mag release is a bit different and reloads will take some getting used to but frankly with a last round bolt hold open and the bolt release I think they are easier/faster than with an MP5.
I was able to shoot a few other 9mm blow back guns to compare it to. The recoil seemed lower and although I wasn't able to get times with a shot timer, subjectively follow ups seemed faster with the Kriss. This may be a by product of its design that is said to mitigate recoil.
I didn't shoot it suppressed yet. I will note that its threads seem to be too long. The suppressor didn't seat all the way. I need to address that issue and then I will put some rounds through it with the suppressor.
It is difficult to get a real sense of a gun like this as it needs to be an SBR. I look forwarding to getting the form 1 back and then really getting to know the gun. That said my initial impression was pretty favorable.
I have a glock lower that I plan to build out eventually. The Kriss is a much more compact package than an AR. One can make it smaller with either a PDW stock or a LAW folder but both have trade offs and are expensive.
I will probably do a more detailed review of the Kriss and hopefully compare it to a few other 9x19 carbines, possibly including the 9mm AR if its done by then. However, I need some more time with it. Although my initial impressions are favorable, I need more time with the gun and more rounds through it.
The Tavor cost about $1700 I believe. So about $500-600 more than what I paid for the Kriss. The tavor is also bigger and heavier. The kriss with its stock folded is almost a foot shorter! That's a pretty big difference when it comes to stowing it away. I've read complaints of 5.56 Tavors gassing people pretty badly when fired suppressed. I've not heard anything one way or another about the 9mm version.
Bobson
Member
Pics?
I personally find all those choices too busy, I like the simple straight stock conventional set ups like the Ruger PC-9 or Marlin Camp series.
I guess the choices listed in the poll are geared more towards full auto fire. But for practical civilian non-full auto choices I'd choose something else.
I guess the choices listed in the poll are geared more towards full auto fire. But for practical civilian non-full auto choices I'd choose something else.
I personally find all those choices too busy, I like the simple straight stock conventional set ups like the Ruger PC-9 or Marlin Camp series.
I guess the choices listed in the poll are geared more towards full auto fire. But for practical civilian non-full auto choices I'd choose something else.
I guess the choices listed in the poll are geared more towards full auto fire. But for practical civilian non-full auto choices I'd choose something else.
I'm not sure what you consider "busy." However, I will say this. The Marlin camp doesn't offer anything I was looking for. Its not small or compact. It is not a good SBR candidate. It would take considerable effort to thread it for a suppressor. Mag capacity is limited. Its not conducive to mounting a red dot sight. In sum, it doesn't do any of the things I wanted this gun to do. Oh, and it has been out of production since 1999 (likely for a reason.) The Ruger is basically the same thing but it has only been out of production for about 10 years.
I will try and take some when I get a chance.
Well, the universe is really tempting me to get an MP5. The MKE guns went on sale for about $1550 and now I'm seeing the POF guns for under $1200! I sort of want to get another suppressor to dedicate to using on the SBRs with a 3 lug though.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It would be very easy to SBR and/or thread a Camp Rifle. I don't know why it would be any different. It's also drilled and tapped for a standard 1894/336 scope base so mounting ANY optic would be easy. Same for the Ruger. Both are good designs that were discontinued due to lack of sales.
I agree on the magazine capacity and that would be the deciding factor for me. IMHO, a 9mm carbine should be set up for 30rd SMG mags, not pistol mags.
WestKentucky
Member
My suggestion. Or if your looking for something a little neater you might want to look at the keltec folding carbines.
I have a sub 2k and the trigger is horrible, if I'm being generous.
I suppose the marlin and ruger are easy to sbs and thread if you have a lathe. I don't. Pulling a push pin and installing a stock is a MUCH easier proposition. Getting a rds on the gun is only part of having a gun properly set up for an optic. The ruger/Marlin appear that they would have cheek weld/sight height issues and no ability to co-witness.
Even if you had the equipment and skills to cut the barrel, move the front sight, thread the barrel, etc you still wouldn't have what many of the options above offer.
I suppose the marlin and ruger are easy to sbs and thread if you have a lathe. I don't. Pulling a push pin and installing a stock is a MUCH easier proposition. Getting a rds on the gun is only part of having a gun properly set up for an optic. The ruger/Marlin appear that they would have cheek weld/sight height issues and no ability to co-witness.
Even if you had the equipment and skills to cut the barrel, move the front sight, thread the barrel, etc you still wouldn't have what many of the options above offer.
Sloppy joes
Member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2016
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- 17
You can't go wrong with the 9mm AR
rodregier
Member
The Aero Survival Rifle:
-takes 33rd (and smaller) Glock 9mm magazines
-short threaded barrels are available as an OEM offering (NFA rules apply)
-anodized aluminum receiver
-decent trigger
-takes 33rd (and smaller) Glock 9mm magazines
-short threaded barrels are available as an OEM offering (NFA rules apply)
-anodized aluminum receiver
-decent trigger
WardenWolf
member
There's always the Suomi. Cut it down to its original barrel length. It'd be heavy, but I've heard they're extremely accurate. They have some problems with drum mags, but the stick mags are fine.
Was considering a evo scorpion even bought the arm brace adapter first(ended up selling it). Always wanted an original HK mp5 but they were way outa reach for me $$$. fortunately mke/zenith arms offers quality clones built on HK tooling. Just picked up my Zenith MK Z-5RS yesterday my first HK clone and very happy so far
My SB brace for it should be arriving next week, like the one pictured below
My SB brace for it should be arriving next week, like the one pictured below
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I'm not sure what you consider "busy." However, I will say this. The Marlin camp doesn't offer anything I was looking for. Its not small or compact. It is not a good SBR candidate. It would take considerable effort to thread it for a suppressor. Mag capacity is limited. Its not conducive to mounting a red dot sight. In sum, it doesn't do any of the things I wanted this gun to do. Oh, and it has been out of production since 1999 (likely for a reason.) The Ruger is basically the same thing but it has only been out of production for about 10 years.
You didn't say it would be difficult to have iron sights and an RDS co-witness. You said "it's not conducive to mounting a red dot sight", which is patently false. It's easy beyond words to mount a red dot sight because it's already drilled and tapped for commonly available Weaver or picatinny rails. It would also be very easy to have both an RDS and good iron sights. You could use something like the Williams Ace in the Hole unitized rail with peep sight with a low mount RDS. It just won't co-witness, which is overrated anyway. Cheek weld wouldn't be an issue unless you went with AR height sights/optics.
I do, however, agree on the capacity issue and think there are better ways to skin this cat. I'd rather slap a buttstock on a Scorpion and call it a day.
There is no shortage of folks waiting for you to send them a barrel to shorten and thread. I just received a factory 10/22 barrel cut to 16", threaded, with the front sight reattached, bead blasted and blued for the princely sum of $100. Sure, sending a Camp Rifle barrel off to be modified might be a wee bit more difficult than swapping the barrel on an AR or adding a buttstock to a pistol but it's still easy.
You didn't say it would be difficult to have iron sights and an RDS co-witness. You said "it's not conducive to mounting a red dot sight", which is patently false. It's easy beyond words to mount a red dot sight because it's already drilled and tapped for commonly available Weaver or picatinny rails. It would also be very easy to have both an RDS and good iron sights. You could use something like the Williams Ace in the Hole unitized rail with peep sight with a low mount RDS. It just won't co-witness, which is overrated anyway. Cheek weld wouldn't be an issue unless you went with AR height sights/optics.
I do, however, agree on the capacity issue and think there are better ways to skin this cat. I'd rather slap a buttstock on a Scorpion and call it a day.
Bobson
Member
Beautiful gun, ifit.
Even more complicated when one is making an SBR. I'm not really interested in bickering over the semantics of mounting a RDS. I will say when you mount an optic higher than the irons were you have cheekweld issues. Co-witness may or may not matter depending on use. For a fun gun its less important to me. Point is, neither of those long since discountinued weapons really fit into the niche I want this gun to fill nor do I have any interest in them.
Elkins45
Member
I have a Marlin Camp 9 and after replacing the buffer and he hammer strut bridge I can tell you it's not a robust design. It's no fun when plastic crumbs start falling out of your gun. I will say that with a RamLine folding stock installed that it makes a nice compact package. I never shoot it so I'm thinking about selling it.
I bought an AR from PSA that takes Glock mags. I had problems initially with the firing pin sticking but I think that was just some leftover machining gunk that has finally been scrubbed out of the channel. I'm thinking about SBRing it before 41F kicks in.
I bought an AR from PSA that takes Glock mags. I had problems initially with the firing pin sticking but I think that was just some leftover machining gunk that has finally been scrubbed out of the channel. I'm thinking about SBRing it before 41F kicks in.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Not semantics at all. You said the Marlin was not conducive to mounting an RDS and that is simply not true. As far as cheek weld issues, it's no different from mounting an optic on any other rifle with iron sights. In other words, not an issue 99.99% of the time.
Not complicated at all, SBR or not. I guess if you're used to guns like AR's that are easily assembled on the kitchen table then anything more involved seems "overly complicated". Have you any experience with rifles that are not AR's or similar? Have you never used a gunsmith? It's clear that our perspectives differ on this subject.
That's fine if you have no interest in them, I don't either and would prefer something else, particularly if I'm going the SBR route. However, that's all tangent to the erroneous information that was posted. They may not be what you or I would choose but several of the things you posted about them are simply untrue.
My brother just got his tax stamp cleared on his sbr mpx and I went out to shoot it with him and it's awesome I really wish I had the money to do that.
Another option is the brethren armament BAP9 they are like a modern take on an mp5 buy they are 3000 dollars new
http://brethrenarms.com/product/bap-9mm/
Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk
Another option is the brethren armament BAP9 they are like a modern take on an mp5 buy they are 3000 dollars new
http://brethrenarms.com/product/bap-9mm/
Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk
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