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Type of Gun in Florida Doughnut Shop Discharge?

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old lady new shooter said:
I once dropped my 686+ from a height of about 4 feet
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I also did that once with a 386. THE LOCK moved towards engagement. I could feel something had a slight hold on the trigger. Reset the lock to open and haven't had further trouble out of the gun (stopped dropping guns, never bought another gun with THE LOCK. Just a word to the wise-THE LOCK has the potential to ruin your day under the right circumstances.
 
"...pocket carry gun"..." Yep. Doesn't do the firearm any favours either. Almost as bad as sticking it under your belt.
 
There was also a story on here sometime ago since I have been a member by someone that worked for a company and carried while in the building. One day he was in the restroom, took off the gun and when he went to put it back on dropped the gun and it discharged. Luckily no one was hurt. It happens more then we know about.

But it makes you wonder how many guns are out there that can fire when dropped and how many bad holsters are floating around.
 
We've had a couple of "dropped gun" incidents here in the last few years. A high school girl dropped her handbag in Starbucks and a cheap two-shot derringer discharged. No one was injured, but the two police officers present reported a significant pucker factor. A second case involved a "mini revolver" dropped in a big box home improvements store. A cashier was wounded in the arm.

I carry a .380 in a pocket holster every day, often as backup to a holstered firearm. Never an issue with the pocket gun being "insecure" or subject to loss of control. I agree that poor holsters, not all of them cheap, are much less secure. I was in a gas station when an off duty police officer's Colt Officer's ACP fell out of his shoulder holster. No discharge, but it got very quiet in there.
 
The Remington pattern double derringer is not drop safe.
There was a report here of one being dropped, firing, and wounding someone.
Turned out it was most likely a case of a domestic dispute that went far enough everybody was very suddenly very sorry of; covered up by knowledge of the weakness of the gun. Or weakness of A gun.
 
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It seems most of the opinion here is that "accidentally" dropping a gun is negligent.
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If you're handling a gun, dropping it may not be negligent. If you handle something enough, eventually you're probably going to drop it even if you're careful. But in public, a gun should be held securely in some way so that it can't just fall or drop under normal circumstances and the user shouldn't be messing with it.
 
as far as semi auto handguns in a million years I cant understand why there has to be a round in the chamber. most ND's would be prevented without one in the chamber
 
salt&battery said:
as far as semi auto handguns in a million years I cant understand why there has to be a round in the chamber.
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That's easy to understand: There has to be a round in the chamber to allow the gun to fire.

salt&battery said:
...most ND's would be prevented without one in the chamber
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In a strict sense you are correct. If you never load a gun it cannot fire. You don't even need the word "most"...a round in the chamber is a prerequisite for all NDs. However, that's not really a practical observation. People generally own guns in order to shoot them, so guns will be loaded at some point or another, and then you can have NDs again.

I have no idea how NDs break down in terms of percentages of each type, but a significant percentage seem to come from people thinking that a gun is unloaded when it is not. I have heard several stories along the lines of, "I never keep a round in the chamber, but this time I picked it up and pulled the trigger to field strip it and it fired! Then I remembered that a month ago I heard something late at night and chambered a round....." Or "I never keep a round in the chamber but I always check so I pulled back the slide to verify no round, let it go, and pulled the trigger and it fired...then I realized I hadn't pulled the magazine....."

Your idea seems to make that type of ND more likely.
 
Ed Ames said:
That's easy to understand: There has to be a round in the chamber to allow the gun to fire.



In a strict sense you are correct. If you never load a gun it cannot fire. You don't even need the word "most"...a round in the chamber is a prerequisite for all NDs. However, that's not really a practical observation. People generally own guns in order to shoot them, so guns will be loaded at some point or another, and then you can have NDs again.

I have no idea how NDs break down in terms of percentages of each type, but a significant percentage seem to come from people thinking that a gun is unloaded when it is not. I have heard several stories along the lines of, "I never keep a round in the chamber, but this time I picked it up and pulled the trigger to field strip it and it fired! Then I remembered that a month ago I heard something late at night and chambered a round....." Or "I never keep a round in the chamber but I always check so I pulled back the slide to verify no round, let it go, and pulled the trigger and it fired...then I realized I hadn't pulled the magazine....."

Your idea seems to make that type of ND more likely.
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when you get home you should check the gun.it takes a split second to chamber a round if needed and the chances of needing a gun anyway are astronomical. the odds on needing a gun must be near winning a lottery
 
salt&battery said:
when you get home you should check the gun.it takes a split second to chamber a round if needed and the chances of needing a gun anyway are astronomical. the odds on needing a gun must be near winning a lottery
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That's a point of view. It isn't a popular one around here, but you are welcome to have it. I'm not trying to change your mind as it honestly doesn't matter to me.

However, it also isn't a practical solution to the problem being talked about. I challenge you to load a two barrel derringer or an NAA mini in a split second. The problem being discussed in this thread is carrying guns that are not drop safe, or not carried in a drop safe way (e.g. a traditional revolver with the hammer down on a loaded chamber). The correct solution is to always carry in a drop safe way. That may mean not carrying a particular gun (old derringer), or it may mean carrying in whatever way is drop safe for that gun. In a few cases that may require an empty chamber, but generally not. Take the "mini revolver" mentioned; the most popular type, the NAA, has safety notches between the chambers that you are supposed to lower the hammer into when carrying. If you do, it is drop safe. If you don't, it isn't. Carrying an unloaded gun is the wrong answer in either case.

The broader point I see is that you are making an unsupported leap in concluding that leaving your gun unloaded will reduce NDs. It would if you always left it unloaded, but there is good reason to believe that it will not reduce NDs if you ever actually use your gun (even at the range). There is good reason to believe it will actually increase some types of NDs.
 
Good posts, Fast Frank and Ed Ames.

George Zimmerman and Darrell Wilson, to name just two, would almost certainly be dead or severely incapacitated, without having a round in the chamber.
 
Fast Frank said:
Uh... because it's useless without one?
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I guess that is why they call you fast frank cause you cant wait a spit second to rack the slide
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If someone jumps you, you may not have a hand free to rack that slide. By the time you realize you need that gun, you may already be fighting for your life. Self defense isn't necessarily a whole lot like standing at the bench on your pistol range and calmly firing rounds into a paper target.
A fair bit of the practice I do is in shooting from "retention" positions, and not having two hands on the gun. (Usually having the support side arm up to ward off a blow to the head from my attacker's right hand.)

it takes a split second to chamber a round if needed and the chances of needing a gun anyway are astronomical. the odds on needing a gun must be near winning a lottery
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Chances? Well, if you feel that the statistics about needing to use a gun to defend yourself should guide you, then you may find it ludicrous to even carry one at all. And you couldn't be said to be "wrong" (unless, you know, you're wrong and someone attacks you). But if you look around the world and observe all the police officers and other folks like concealed carry practitioners who keep sidearms with them daily, you'll realize that something more (way more!) than 90% of them have a round chambered when the gun's in the holster. Chances are, they see something you haven't.


So, now you understand.

in a million years I cant understand why there has to be a round in the chamber
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A million years sure passed in a hurry, didn't it?
 
Sam1911 said:
If someone jumps you, you may not have a hand free to rack that slide. By the time you realize you need that gun, you may already be fighting for your life. Self defense isn't necessarily a whole lot like standing at the bench on your pistol range and calmly firing rounds into a paper target.
A fair bit of the practice I do is in shooting from "retention" positions, and not having two hands on the gun. (Usually having the support side arm up to ward off a blow to the head from my attacker's right hand.)


Chances? Well, if you feel that the statistics about needing to use a gun to defend yourself should guide you, then you may find it ludicrous to even carry one at all. And you couldn't be said to be "wrong" (unless, you know, you're wrong and someone attacks you). But if you look around the world and observe all the police officers and other folks like concealed carry practitioners who keep sidearms with them daily, you'll realize that something more (way more!) than 90% of them have a round chambered when the gun's in the holster. Chances are, they see something you haven't.


So, now you understand.


A million years sure passed in a hurry, didn't it?
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yes time does fly lol. what about a revolver? I see S&W making an 8 shot 357. but with only 8 shots some guys think that is not enough. I worked in bars as bouncer and hung out in them when I wasn't saw 100's of fights being in many of them and I was attacked with everything that could be held. never saw need for a gun and neither did anyone else involved in all those fights
 
I usually pack a Glock. If it drops for any reason I DO NOT CATCH IT. I let it fall. It's internal safety will stop an AD/ND, but if I try to catch it, I could pull the trigger (as some have done) and the gun fire.

A drop-safe gun may very well not be a catch-safe gun!

Deaf
 
Squire Western said:
Good posts, Fast Frank and Ed Ames.

George Zimmerman and Darrell Wilson, to name just two, would almost certainly be dead or severely incapacitated, without having a round in the chamber.
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Zimmerman shot a guy in a fist fight which I think should not be allowed and Wilson had plenty of time to rack a slide but I figure cops should have one in the chamber and they are not immune to ND's in fact before the rage of CC I heard of a good number of ND's in the station house with guys fooling around
 
salt&battery said:
Zimmerman shot a guy in a fist fight which I think should not be allowed and Wilson had plenty of time to rack a slide but I figure cops should have one in the chamber and they are not immune to ND's in fact before the rage of CC I heard of a good number of ND's in the station house with guys fooling around
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Zimmerman, not a cop, was flat on his back, and Wilson was being strangled, with little time to do anything.

Your ideas hold very little, if no water. You need a round in the chamber.
 
wally said:
It seems most of the opinion here is that "accidentally" dropping a gun is negligent.

Like the OP, I'm more interested in knowing the actual gun that discharged when dropped. I agree that no modern gun in good repair should discharge when dropped, knowing about which ones have discharged when dropped is very important information IMHO. Its also very important to know if it discharged when it actually hit the floor or when he attempted to "catch" it as it fell.

Any gun I carry has been loaded with a primed case and dropped multiple times from about shoulder height before I carry it so I can have confidence that it is safe to carry.
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You drop all your guns from shoulder height on a hard surface??? Just to be sure???
 
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