Question for Sig P238/938 owners

Status
Not open for further replies.

khari

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
148
After carrying my Ruger LCR in .327 FM exclusively for pretty much the past year, this morning I grabbed my Sig Sauer P938. Immediately a thought popped up. The P238 and P938 are very similar to full size 1911s. What if I carried it cocked and locked? So my question to you is, how many of you carry it cocked with the safety engaged?

Edit:
To be clear, I do not plan to carry it in this mannner. I was more curious how many others did.
 
Before I got my SIG P238 I had a Colt Mustang. Carried it in Condition One (Cocked and Locked), every time. Never had the safety come off and always felt perfectly safe with it in this mode. Carry my P238 exactly the same way.
 
I carry Condition One with any and all 1911 type pistols, including my P238's and P938. I carry my LCP most often, but I do frequently carry my 938 (few days a month usually). I carried one of my 238's EDC for about a year. My wife carried her 238 EDC, condition one, for about 3 years, and still does so about half of the time.

Personally, there is abolutely no sense in carrying with an empty chamber. I really don't care to hear the same BS opinions otherwise - either you're comfortable carrying a loaded firearm, or you are not. Carrying with an empty chamber is not "loaded" in the instant you need it to save your life.
 
You imply a concern with cocked and locked carry. I understand and used to share your concern but experience with the MK III Browning Hi Power seemed to cure me of that. By the time I bought my first P238 I was over it. The 238/938 is designed from scratch to be carried cocked and locked. The safety detent is very secure and I have never experienced it not working as designed. Furthermore, some small 380s seem to be easily thumb-cocked. Personally, I don't find the 238/938 series to be particularly well-suited for that. Could be my hands but I think cocked and locked, as designed, is far faster, smoother, more secure, and safer.
 
The one caveat I would add, is that I would never carry Cocked-n-Locked in a pocket, without a holster. I had a 1911 safety disengage twice due to shifting in a loose-fitting IWB holster. But, I would never carry a firearm in a way that it could rattle around in my pocket, regardless of the action, unless absolutely necessary (see: need hands free in bump-in-the-night scenario). If it is in a belt/IWB/pocket holster, Cocked-n-Locked is GTG.
 
"The safety detent is very secure and I have never experienced it not working as designed." - I carry my 938 cocked and locked. It has the best safety detent I have owned. I have absolutely no concern with any safety issues when carrying it holstered. Even with SIG's somewhat austere holster.
 
Yes, condition 1. Less chance of a ND than with a striker pistol, such as a Glock. There's a reason for the phrase "Glock leg".
 
Interesting. I've seen the cocked vs not cocked debate a few times but never paid much attention to it because I always intended to carry mine safety on, uncocked (always with a round chambered though). Having never been in the military and never having owned a 1911 other than the P238 and P938 I picked up a couple years ago, I don't have much experience with them. After reading your responses however, I'm beginning to think I should do more research to see if I can become comfortable with carrying in condition 1 (new term for me). Thanks folks!
 
I always intended to carry mine safety on, uncocked (always with a round chambered though).
Lowering the hammer on a live round has long been seen as the most dangerous thing you can do with a SA firearm. Also, FWIW, a 1911 safety cannot be engaged unless the hammer is back.
 
Can't speak for all 1911s, but I can engage the safety on my 938 without the hammer back.
 
Can't speak for all 1911s, but I can engage the safety on my 938 without the hammer back.

The P238 and P938 aren't 1911s. A 1911's thumb safety can't be engaged unless the gun is cocked, but a P238/P938's can be, which is a nice thing to have, as it lets you put the pistol on safe prior to chambering a round.
 
The P238 and P938 aren't 1911s. A 1911's thumb safety can't be engaged unless the gun is cocked, but a P238/P938's can be, which is a nice thing to have, as it lets you put the pistol on safe prior to chambering a round.
Good to know, thanks!
 
when I carry my 238, its condition 1.
being a single action, its the only way to roll, IMHO.

I actually don't like that it doesn't lock the slide, but it makes no difference when it comes to making it ready.
 
Any recommendations on a good pocket holster? I have a DeSantis Nemesis and it doesn't cover the safety.
 
I have one of the cheap Uncle Mike's pocket holsters. I use it for my LCR now, but I've used it to carry my wife's P238 a couple of times and it does fine.
 
Can't speak for all 1911s, but I can engage the safety on my 938 without the hammer back.

Simple answer here - the 938 isn't a 1911. It's a hammer fired Sig design, based on their P238, which is based on a Colt Mustang, which is based on a 1911... The P238/938 is NOT a miniature 1911 clone, but rather it is loosely based on the 1911.

Certain people have complained about the 1911 design for as long as it has been around, such you can't set it to safe with the hammer down. So as the design evolved from one model to the next, new features were added to address those complaints.

Even though we call the same Cooper Carry Conditions for basically all hammer fired SA pistols, they're not all the same, and the P238/938 isn't a 1911.

One distinct advantage, is the lack of a physical slide block in the safety. In a 1911, the shooter must deactivate the safety to clear the chamber, which has been a common complaint for many shooters over the years - why force me to make the pistol "less safe" by deactivating the safety when I'm trying to make it "more safe" by unloading it? Comparatively, in a P238/938 in Condition 1, the shooter can empty the chamber while leaving the safety activated. In Condition 2 (loaded chamber, hammer down), the safety must be deactivated to manipulate the slide, adding increased risk of administrative ND's.

When the hammer is cocked in a P238/938, it disconnects the trigger from the hammer. When the hammer is down, the 238/938 safety blocks the hammer from cocking past half cock, which subsequently blocks the slide from opening fully. HOWEVER, if you pull the trigger with the safety on and the hammer at half cock, it will fall as if it were fired, so it's not really a true half cock notch, but rather is more like a half cock sear, AND in pulling the trigger, you will defeat the firing pin block safety so it WILL hit the firing pin... It won't hit it with full force, so it won't fire, but it's NOT a secure half cock notch. So personally, I'm not really certain why they have a half cock position at all. The P238/938 also use an inertial firing pin, so when the hammer is fully down, the pin is NOT touching the primer. Hitting the hammer spur when the hammer is down will be no more likely to fire than if the hammer were locked back by the safety.

Sig's recommendation are ONLY these:

1) Condition 1 carry - hammer back, round chambered, safety on
2) Condition 3 carry (Modified) - hammer down, empty chamber, safety on (which is foolish and unnecessary)

HOWEVER - If you are willing to go against common sense AND against Sig's official instruction: AND willing to assume increased risk of administrative ND's:

Condition 2 carry is safe in a Sig P238/938. As foolish and unnecessary as it might be, the Sig P238/938 can be carried safely with a round in the chamber, hammer down, and safety on. A) With the safety on, the hammer will not draw back past half cock, and it cannot fall from there with enough force to ignite a primer. B) With the inertial firing pin and firing pin block (redundant in Condition 2), hitting the hammer cannot ignite a primer, any moreso than dropping the pistol in Condition 1. Sig designed in plenty of safeties into their pistol to prevent injury of fools who do foolish things, and Condition 2 carry is on that list. Again - if you carry in Condition 2, you'll have to deactivate the safety to unload the pistol, increasing your risk of administrative ND's.
 
I'm not sure why there are so many complaints about the safety on a 1911. With a SAO pistol if the hammer is down there is no need for a safety since pulling the trigger will do nothing!

Same goes for the Sig P238/P938. If the hammer is down there is no need to set the safety since the trigger will do nothing, not to mention the grip safety. They put it there to make people who don't understand SAO handguns comfortable.

As for a holster for the P238 that covers the safety, it's probably not necessary. If the safety is somehow disengaged there is still the grip safety and several other internal protections that come into play. The El Paso Saddlery Pocket Max will probably be to your liking. The Galco Pocket Protector Holster is also nice and at a lower price.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top