Good Ol' Boy
Member
Another vote for the PMR30, just like I mentioned in the last 22LR debate like this.
Flame suit on: 22LR semi-auto for home defense.
- Thread starter Balrog
- Start date
- Status
Ironicaintit
Member
Have you tried a sig p238? Single action, easy to rack the slide, and is by far the mildest recoiling 380acp I've ever fired.
My mom had no problems operating it, but after the Ruger standard debacle, she lost confidence in semi autos.
Mizar
Member
There are many .32 ACP surplus pistols that can be stored in condition 1 (cocked & locked) and are a far better option than a .22LR pistol. All steel, longer barrels, full size grips, reliable centerfire cartridge and very light recoil. Just to name a few:
CZ 50/70
Zastava M70
CZ 82/83
Colt 1903
FN 1910, 1910/22
Llama
Beretta 70, Cheetah
Some of those can be found quite cheap in the US. And, despite the fact that internet commandos think of them as an "obsolete platform", they are capable of surprisingly good performance.
CZ 50/70
Zastava M70
CZ 82/83
Colt 1903
FN 1910, 1910/22
Llama
Beretta 70, Cheetah
Some of those can be found quite cheap in the US. And, despite the fact that internet commandos think of them as an "obsolete platform", they are capable of surprisingly good performance.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
I still have the PMR30 figures when my friend and I were shooting our .22 WMR guns across his chrony from a couple years ago. His PMR30 showed the following:
Hornady VMax 30 grain = 1585, 1572, 1579 fps
CCI Choot Em 40 grain JHP = 1221, 1251, 1236 fps
Hornady Critical Defense 45 grain = 1195, 1330, 1266 fps
I really like the gun, and figure the PMR30 could make a great low recoil, high capacity, self defense gun for those that can't handle more.
Either that or maybe the FN Five-Seven pistol. Hmmmm.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
This makes me think again of the locked breech Browning 1911-380. http://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/1911-380.html
It's 85% scale, has a single action trigger, 8+1 capacity, and has a large enough slide to more easily grab compared to some of the small slide guns.
https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2015/5/28/exercise-your-freedom-a-whole-new-380/
Last edited:
BSA1
member
“I would propose that a Ruger or Browning semi auto 22 LR might be as good a choice as any for home defense for people with limited shooting experience, are recoil sensitive, and do not have hours (or the interest) in significant training.”
Well you have already made up your mind that the .22 L.R. is adequate for self-defense so trying to convince you otherwise is a waste of time.
“The 22 LR is no doubt a poor stopper, but I would rather see a few hits on a target with a 22 than five misses with a J frame.”
You are confusing stopping power with being lethal. It is small comfort to your family and loved ones to know your attacker died ½ hour after you did from your .22 gunshots.
Well you have already made up your mind that the .22 L.R. is adequate for self-defense so trying to convince you otherwise is a waste of time.
“The 22 LR is no doubt a poor stopper, but I would rather see a few hits on a target with a 22 than five misses with a J frame.”
You are confusing stopping power with being lethal. It is small comfort to your family and loved ones to know your attacker died ½ hour after you did from your .22 gunshots.
So I am not sure what you would have me do with your comments. If someone can't handle recoil, and can't manipulate guns easily because of arthritis, what do you recommend?
Jim NE
Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2011
- Messages
- 1,888
I do know that low hand strength and pain are issues when talking about defensive firearms for the elderly or disabled. A couple of years ago, my elderly dad couldn't even lift the Highway Patrolman he'd bought just five years before. My preteen daughter had problems cocking the hammer on some of the small revolvers I brought when I first took her shooting.
The problem with semi-autos, though, is many of these same shooter issues can keep someone from racking a slide well. Some people have used "wings" to make racking easier. Pavona pistols from EAA were designed to accommodate people with weaker hands, but I believe .380 is the smallest caliber they make.
A small caliber pistol that's big enough eat up recoil isn't common in the world of center fire handguns, but I'm wondering if the steel framed CZ 70 or Beretta Cheetah might work? Both are available in .32 ACP and weigh close to 25 oz. Just need to figure out how to rack the slide.
The problem with semi-autos, though, is many of these same shooter issues can keep someone from racking a slide well. Some people have used "wings" to make racking easier. Pavona pistols from EAA were designed to accommodate people with weaker hands, but I believe .380 is the smallest caliber they make.
A small caliber pistol that's big enough eat up recoil isn't common in the world of center fire handguns, but I'm wondering if the steel framed CZ 70 or Beretta Cheetah might work? Both are available in .32 ACP and weigh close to 25 oz. Just need to figure out how to rack the slide.
SteadyD
Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2017
- Messages
- 1,747
Has she tried a Ruger LCR trigger? Those are pretty smooth and light trigger pulls. A 17 oz 327 LCR loaded with 32 Magnum or 32 Longs might be a viable solution. If the trigger is doable on a lcr but that's still too much recoil then a LCR in 22 lr or magnum?
wally
Member
At the end of the day, the story goes, this is why JMB invented the .25ACP as even he couldn't get acceptable reliability in a small defensive handgun with .22lr. Its just the nature of the beast, sometimes the primer compound just doesn't fill the entire circumference of the rim and Murphy puts the spot without compound under the firing pin
If in the recoil adverse situation, try to find one of the old European steel framed .32ACP pistols. It'd be way better than .22lr in all regards. Maybe even a Beretta Jetfire .25ACP.
I realize this is a handgun forum, but I would suggest the Ruger 10/22 with good ammo like CCI Mini-Mags and an OEM 25 round magazine. Rifle ignition generally is better than pistol igntion with rimfire rounds, and the velocity from the rifle will be much higher than with a handgun. It is pretty easy to get a round in the chamber either by hand or by jamming the bolt handle against a door frame or corner. Nobody is going to walk through a blizzard of .22 rounds coming at them.
Last edited:
22250Rem
Member
I know this is the "HANDGUNS : AUTOLOADERS" section but based on the criteria concerning the shooter's limitations to using rimfire ammunition I can't stop thinking about a 22 WMR revolver. I can't recall ever having a dud 22 magnum round and my single action Ruger Single Six Convertible is extremely easy to cock, compared to racking slides. Last time I had any round fail to fire was back in 2009 or 10... It was a hard primer on a 38 Spl. round in a S&W 642 J Frame snubby. If rimfire had to be used I'd much prefer 22 Mag. over 22LR and I think most single action revolvers might be easier to manipulate than some slides. If something like arthritis is severe enough to prevent cocking the hammer it may also prevent most other required motions needed to properly handle that gun or any other. It's a sad fact of life with things like arthritis that eventually some folks won't be able to handle these things. I've seen older shooters sell off their guns because of it.
The FN 5.7, IME, is very light, easy to carry, and draw. But I'm a big guy, with large hands.
As to 22LR, they are less likely to injure your hearing, and are very fast back on target.
A Marlin 60, or Ruger 10-22, is, IMO a very viable HD option, especially for women.
BSA1
member
There are a lot of choices out there any of which are better than the 22 L.R. With proper technique it is possible to handle a more powerful gun despite physical limitations.
For example The Lady has small hands and weak wrists. She has had carpel tunnel surgery on both wrists and certain tasks for very painful for her. She can not shoot a S&W revolver and struggles with the Colt Police Positive Special as both hurt her hands and wrists. She lacks the strength to pull the slide back on a semi-auto pistols.
However a few months ago we went to a LGS that had a open house celebrating their first year in business. She had the opportunity to handle and dry fire a several different semi-autos including Glock, Walther, Springfield Armory and S&W M&P 9mm. With coaching from a salesclerk she learned to chamber a round by holding the slide and pushing the forward on the frame. Her gun also has a APEX trigger installed in it making the trigger pull lighter and crisper. She actually enjoys shooting now that it doesn't hurt her to shoot a handgun and she is shooting serious self-defense ammunition.
On the other hand we had a incident where a graduate of State Pen (as in prison) followed a elderly lady that was walking home from grocery shopping into her home with the intent to rape and whatever else. When the police arrived they found a very unconscious felon laying on the kitchen floor with the elderly lady standing over him with a cast iron frying pan in one hand and a large kitchen knife in the other. It was worthwhile watching the news when he appeared before the judge wearing a neck brace and black eye.
My point is just having a gun is not enough. The first rule is too be willing to use deadly force. The second is to have powerful enough tools to do the job protecting yourself. Working in a major hospital emergency room and on the street I have seen enough people shot with the .22 L.R. to have much faith in its stopping power. Lethal if it gets inside the human body...yes. Stopping the attacker then and there...no.
Last edited:
I bet a bunch of those people you saw shot with a 22 in the ER quit what they were doing and went to the hospital soon as they realized they were shot. But I appreciate the info. I agree with you the 22 is a poor stopper, as I have said several times.
Zerodefect
member
There is no equipment solution for piss poor skill level and lack of training.
Paying $100 a month for cable? Turn it off. In 10 months you can afford decent training.
Paying $100 a month for cable? Turn it off. In 10 months you can afford decent training.
mljdeckard
Member
I have a .22 conversion kit for my 1911. It has a very light rack, a Kimber SA trigger, and 15 round magazines. If I had to, I could dump 15 Stingers or Velocitors very quickly to the center of mass. But all the time I would be doing it, I would be wishing it was something better.
As has been mentioned above, a revolver in 32 S&W Long is a great alternative. Recoil is not much more than a 22 but is more reliable and packs more of a punch. As an added bonus, in the case of the Ruger LCR 327 Fed Mag, is also shoots 32 S&W and 32 H&R Mag. It also packs six rounds instead of five.
So to say it one more time, the lady's arthritis keeps her from being able to shoot a revolver. She can't thumb back the hammer or pull the heavy double action trigger while staying remotely on target.
Again, she doesn't manipulate a double action revolver well.
One more time, DA revolvers are not agreeable to her because of issues with arthritis.
To say it another way, a DA revolver is hard for her to operate because of her arthritis.
browningguy
Member
My wife has pretty severe rheumatoid arthritis and can't rack or reliably shoot any centerfire pistol. She keeps a Beretta Model 76 Target single action semiauto in her nightstand, loaded with CCI Minimag solids. It always goes bang, and she tends to put 10 shots in the same hole pretty quickly at 3-7 yards. I don't feel bad it's the only thing she can shoot, and she doesn't seem to mind having it as her only option.
Mizar
Member
Pachmayr sells a little rubber gadget called "Rack-It" for assisting those with weak hands, arthritis, etc. But I never used it, so I cannot comment how well (or bad) it works. https://www.lymanproducts.com/accessories/pachmayr-rack-it-tm.html
grampajack
AR Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2016
- Messages
- 1,714
FN FiveSeven pistol. Nonexistent recoil, single action, and ballistics somewhere between a .22 wmr and a .223 from a short barrel. Wouldn't be my first choice, but it's far removed from a .22lr, or even a .22 wmr for that matter.
BUT, don't throw out revolvers altogether. A good trigger job can make the trigger scary light. To be honest, though, it sounds like she really just needs a long gun, and I can't think of anything more perfect than an AR15. Since home defense is the only consideration here, a long gun is going to be the best solution to get here something ballistically viable that she can handle. Don't worry about the grandkids. There are as many solutions for rifles as there are for pistols in that department.
- Status
