Armored farmer
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Ruger charger?
Flame suit on: 22LR semi-auto for home defense.
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wally
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Beretta used to make one in .380, but its been out of production for a long time and hard to find, usually $500+ when you do see one. Its very large for a 380 by todays standards but that helps with the recoil. Problem is, to me, since its a blowback felt recoil is about the same as a "normal" 9mm like the M&P or Glock 19. But since muzzle blast and flash is a large part of perceived recoil, my wife loves it and psychics herself out when shooting a 9mm.
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sean m
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I remember reading an article years ago by Col. Jeff Cooper, where he spoke of the merits of a 22 target pistol as a defensive pistol for the recoil sensitive. IIRC, He spoke to aiming for the ocular cavity, the space between the eyes and nose for the most effective response to a threat. I would think that a 22 target pistol with a laser sight would make a quick follow up possible.
Blkhrt13
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The Tzone is the place to aim not matter caliber.
The 22LR is a potentially lethal cartridge. In the hands of some trained in its use, it is completely useful as an SD round.
I know there are a lot of people who think the only thing suitable for SD is a cannon that will break the target's neck if it strikes him on the pinky finger, but I don't see the necessity for that.
Get 60 ft-pds of energy onto the right place on the target and he's out of the fight forever.
I've been involved in two uses of a gun for SD. In both cases, the gun was a 25 ACP pistol and in neither case did the assailant, who was much more heavily armed, want to stick around to test our marksmanship skills under stress.
Oh, I said "gun" in the paragraph above when I should have said "handgun".
I know there are a lot of people who think the only thing suitable for SD is a cannon that will break the target's neck if it strikes him on the pinky finger, but I don't see the necessity for that.
Get 60 ft-pds of energy onto the right place on the target and he's out of the fight forever.
I've been involved in two uses of a gun for SD. In both cases, the gun was a 25 ACP pistol and in neither case did the assailant, who was much more heavily armed, want to stick around to test our marksmanship skills under stress.
Oh, I said "gun" in the paragraph above when I should have said "handgun".
goldpelican
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The PMR30 mentioned earlier is impressive. I haven't handled one but I spoke at length with an owner and watched him shoot one at the range next to me for a session. Was shooting a golf ball sized group at 7 yards as quick as he could pull the trigger. He bought it explicitly for his wife to use as a house gun - very low recoil, super accurate, nowhere near as noisy as a centerfire for hearing damage, and his favorite feature was that the "get lost" button was good for 30 clicks.
I don't know what effort is needed to load the chamber.
If someone is genuinely arthritic and lacks the dexterity of strength or movement to handle a DA revolver or rack a slide, then suggesting ARs, AR pistols, Charger pistols meant for bench rest etc are misguided. There are folk out there who simply cannot handle a firearm. Get them some good pepper spray as a last resort, and work on home security to mitigate threats in the first place.
I don't know what effort is needed to load the chamber.
If someone is genuinely arthritic and lacks the dexterity of strength or movement to handle a DA revolver or rack a slide, then suggesting ARs, AR pistols, Charger pistols meant for bench rest etc are misguided. There are folk out there who simply cannot handle a firearm. Get them some good pepper spray as a last resort, and work on home security to mitigate threats in the first place.
Walt Sherrill
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Chambering a round (or, more correctly, racking the slide) in a PMR-30 would likely be a problem for someone with limited hand-strength -- but that's going to be a problem for any semi-auto that doesn't have a tip-up barrel.
My wife can do it, and she can't do it with most other guns without a tip-up barrel, but it takes practice. And forget revolvers, unless they have had a wonderful action job done. Revolver triggers are typically too long and too heavy for someone with hand-strrength problems. We keep my wife's PMR-30 loaded with 25 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense and hope that if she ever has to use it, there won't be a function problem.
My wife can do it, and she can't do it with most other guns without a tip-up barrel, but it takes practice. And forget revolvers, unless they have had a wonderful action job done. Revolver triggers are typically too long and too heavy for someone with hand-strrength problems. We keep my wife's PMR-30 loaded with 25 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense and hope that if she ever has to use it, there won't be a function problem.
Bottom Gun
Member
If the choice has to be a semi auto .22 handgun, I would consider having her look at a S&W M&P22.The slide is relatively easy to rack and 12 round magazines are available for the full size version. One of my female friends has a similar ailment and after trying my M&P22, she bought one. She shoots it regularly and it works fine for her.
vba
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I agree with the Ruger 10/22, one can stitch someone real good with one. On the other hand a Ruger MKII, III or IV is easy to cock and has a nice light trigger. The bolt has "ears" on it for easy purchase. With good ammo I've never had a misfire (CCI mini-mag 40 gn solids).
But for more power, I would think the lady could handle the Ruger LC9s. I've got one and it is very easy to rack the slide and the trigger is like butter, very smooth and LIGHT. The LC9s is in 9mm.
But for more power, I would think the lady could handle the Ruger LC9s. I've got one and it is very easy to rack the slide and the trigger is like butter, very smooth and LIGHT. The LC9s is in 9mm.
Armored farmer
Member
If my mother insisted on a .22 auto....I would get her an SR22 ruger and figure out a way for her to use it. My son has one, a good little shooter.
Bear in mind, you ARE addressing folks who won't pony up 25$ a year for a NRA membership. Do you REALLY think
they are going to pay ten times that for training?
There are a few things to remember. First, we are talking about an older lady with arthritis. So, she probably isn't fixing to sign up for Thunder Ranch. Secondly, statistics show that there are many successful self defense uses of handguns in the US each year. A negligible number of those users have been to a formal defense school.
wally
Member
I don't want to step into this, and I realize that organized gangs doing home invasions using "police tactics" (to quote a TV news report about one such incident) seems to be increasing, but the facts are that most defensive use of a firearm end without a shot being fired -- the lack of reporting about these events feeds the narrative of "why do you need a gun?" -- those citizens who captured the escaped killers in Tennessee are one such statistic that did get some limited news reporting.
I'm not going to argue against training or practice, but fact is firearms designers have been perfecting the "point and click" interface for 400+ years -- it ain't rocket science to hit a torso sized target inside of 3 yards.
Zerodefect
member
It is, if your pistol jumps out of your hand and goes sliding along the floor as your draw it. (because you've only drawn it a dozen times) Training, practice, competition. When the adrenaline kicks in, all your skills plummet down to muscle memory at best. If your skill level already sucks, you're doomed.
Another thing all of that CCW data clearly shows us, normal civvies suck at this as much as cops do. Have you ever seen a CCTV vid of a shoot where the good guy didn't look pathetic? Pretty rare thing. Those vids just need some circus music and a clown on a unicycle to be any funnier.
I can't speak for the old lady. If all she can handle is a .22, then that'll have to do. But my local trainer does make house calls for special needs students, home security inspections, prep, etc. etc. And they have women only, and handicap classes for pistol, knife, anything, really.
Another thing all of that CCW data clearly shows us, normal civvies suck at this as much as cops do. Have you ever seen a CCTV vid of a shoot where the good guy didn't look pathetic? Pretty rare thing. Those vids just need some circus music and a clown on a unicycle to be any funnier.
I can't speak for the old lady. If all she can handle is a .22, then that'll have to do. But my local trainer does make house calls for special needs students, home security inspections, prep, etc. etc. And they have women only, and handicap classes for pistol, knife, anything, really.
herrwalther
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Behind the AR and/or shotgun, and behind whatever your carry or home defense gun is I can see a .22LR semi auto rifle as a viable choice. Just not near the first choice.
expat_alaska
Member
I am 65 years old. My primary HD weapon is a 1911 .45. My wife has a Ruger SP101 .38 Spl. revolver.
Although a .22 handgun is not my defensive weapon of choice, I sure would not discount it if nothing else is available.
I live in the boontoolies. If a home invasion occurred here, my first alarm is my 14lb. Dachshund who barks at any disturbance.
I keep a .22 separate from the bedroom in a fairly secure but accessible place. I built it from a stripped 1911 frame in 2013 and it has a 1992 J.A. Ciener .22 conversion kit with a15 round mag. It is easy to rack the slide for us old farts, much more so than the 1911 .45 which is kept cocked and locked with 2 extra mags alongside it. It has fixed sights but will hit a soda can from a rest at 50'.
I would not hesitate to resort to it as a last ditch firearm. I think most stupid perps would see the 1911 as a .45 not looking at the small hole at the muzzle. Shot placement with the .22 is of the utmost concern. Probably not wise to consider it as a wise choice in the winter when people wear heavier clothing but definitely viable in the summer months.
My rule of thumb: if in a HD situation, forget about the rear sight. At 5-7 yards concentrate upon putting the front sight on the target area. You will make good hits.
Jim
Although a .22 handgun is not my defensive weapon of choice, I sure would not discount it if nothing else is available.
I live in the boontoolies. If a home invasion occurred here, my first alarm is my 14lb. Dachshund who barks at any disturbance.
I keep a .22 separate from the bedroom in a fairly secure but accessible place. I built it from a stripped 1911 frame in 2013 and it has a 1992 J.A. Ciener .22 conversion kit with a15 round mag. It is easy to rack the slide for us old farts, much more so than the 1911 .45 which is kept cocked and locked with 2 extra mags alongside it. It has fixed sights but will hit a soda can from a rest at 50'.
I would not hesitate to resort to it as a last ditch firearm. I think most stupid perps would see the 1911 as a .45 not looking at the small hole at the muzzle. Shot placement with the .22 is of the utmost concern. Probably not wise to consider it as a wise choice in the winter when people wear heavier clothing but definitely viable in the summer months.
My rule of thumb: if in a HD situation, forget about the rear sight. At 5-7 yards concentrate upon putting the front sight on the target area. You will make good hits.
Jim
MTNSTRYDER
Member
It’s always have a gun .I like the PMR I own one and like it a lot and I trust it, but how about a carbine like the CMR are even one from highpoint in 9 or 45 very easy to handle or a 410 pump or semi?My mother who,s 83 has a Mossberg and with slingshot, gun or bow she is still better than me.
since I have other handguns for home defense that caliber would not be my first choice, but I would not hesitate to use rifle loaded with 25 of 22LR Mini-mags instead if that is all I have and I have to defend my home.
I know that acting under the stress is totally different, but with this rifle I can hit very rapidly and accurately up to 20 yards ( larger distance than average house )
I know that acting under the stress is totally different, but with this rifle I can hit very rapidly and accurately up to 20 yards ( larger distance than average house )
MedWheeler
Member
^^ 10/22, I take it. I have two .22LR rifles loaded, one of which is a Tapco/Intrafuse-stocked 10/22. The other is a Mossberg 702, a surprisingly-swift-handling lightweight weapon.
Dave Markowitz
Member
I picked up a Ruger SR22 last week and although I only have a couple hundred rounds through it so far, it's looking good. My 13 year old daughter is able to handle it well.
Pros:
Cons:
If using a .22 rimfire for defense do not use bulk back ammo except for practice. Use CCI Mini Mag solids to maximize reliability and penetration. I've fired thousands of rounds of CCI .22 LR and had exactly one misfire. If a .22 semiauto won't run with Mini Mags, something is wrong with it. OTH, bulk pack ammo is a good choice to practice malfunction drills.
Pros:
- Light (17.5 oz. empty)
- Reasonable cost
- Reliable according to most accounts
- Ambidextrous controls (except for the slide release)
- Comes with two different grip sleeves to customize fit to your hand
- Single action trigger is good
- Good sights
- Has a rail for mounting a light or laser
- Currently manufactured so it has support. As much as I like my Beretta 70 it lacks current support; spare parts and magazines are hard to find.
Cons:
- The double action pull is long and stacks.
If using a .22 rimfire for defense do not use bulk back ammo except for practice. Use CCI Mini Mag solids to maximize reliability and penetration. I've fired thousands of rounds of CCI .22 LR and had exactly one misfire. If a .22 semiauto won't run with Mini Mags, something is wrong with it. OTH, bulk pack ammo is a good choice to practice malfunction drills.
I'm not one to dissuade someone from buying a new toy. But I'm left wondering. If the person has trouble being competent with a firearm under ideal conditions how will they react under stress?
Would there be a more viable option like a security alarm?
99% of the time what it boils down to is trying to justify the purchase of something.
No one can know exactly your situation there are many variables.
If that is the absolute best way then a suggestion would be to purchase a trigger pull gauge and test as many weapons as you can.
If it was me and I needed to stick with 22 because of x reason and I couldn't clear a jam with proficiency I would buy a trigger pull gauge and try out as many revolvers as I could if I was still having trouble I would then find out which had the easiest pull and could be modified by a gun smith to lower the pull weight.
As with most things it's not just about what is logical or "best" it's about what makes you feel more confident.
What makes her feel 10 feet tall?
Would there be a more viable option like a security alarm?
99% of the time what it boils down to is trying to justify the purchase of something.
No one can know exactly your situation there are many variables.
If that is the absolute best way then a suggestion would be to purchase a trigger pull gauge and test as many weapons as you can.
If it was me and I needed to stick with 22 because of x reason and I couldn't clear a jam with proficiency I would buy a trigger pull gauge and try out as many revolvers as I could if I was still having trouble I would then find out which had the easiest pull and could be modified by a gun smith to lower the pull weight.
As with most things it's not just about what is logical or "best" it's about what makes you feel more confident.
What makes her feel 10 feet tall?
I was sitting five feet from a young girl who was shot in the neck at a distance of 20 feet by a high velocity 22 lr round shot out of a rifle. It did not kill her, though she remains paralyzed. Based on my personal experience I would choose something else.
I read an article about a sheriff that was confronted by a guy with a hand gun in hand.
The sheriff drew his 357 magnum revolver and Emptyed his gun (6 rounds) into the guys center mass at point blank range. The perp then raised his gun and shot the sheriff dead.
The perp survived! So I guess based on this encounter should I assume that the 357 magnum would be a bad choice?
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