6 Guns, Cowboys, Hollywood and the Truth

If you're a fan of the John Wayne movies, look at the scenes where you can see
the back of his gun-belt. There is always a rifle cartridge, something huge, like a 45-70
in the center at the back of the belt. My research indicates this made it easy to find his
particular gun-belt belt, and easier for him to center the gun-belt, when he put it on.

Good Ol' Boy

The only movie I can recall something like that happening was in a George Peppard western called "One More Train to Rob". Near the end of the movie Peppard is down to like his last round in his revolver and he wants the bad guy to think he's out of ammo. So he loads one then rotates the cylinder around so he can drop the hammer on 5 empty chambers. Bad guy believes Peppard has run dry and comes out from behind cover to finish him off when Peppard drills him with his last round.

Danoobie

Actually I read somewhere that the Duke picked up the .45-70 round "trick" from some old time cowboys who worked as stuntmen and wranglers for the studios many years ago. It was thought to be an easy way for a cowboy to feel around the back of his gun belt and know that when he found that .45-70 round he had gone through half of his cartridges.

Good Ol' Boy said:

We all know Hollywood can be "less than accurate" as far as guns in movies are concerned.

I've watched plenty of classic as well as modern Westerns and tonight I'm watching one that got me thinking. The setting is in a scene where a gunslinger draws his pistol but then when there is deemed no threat, decocks it and holsters it. Obviously it was customary to carry 5 shots in the older revolvers. But in the movies they never take the time to go back to an empty tube after decocking, they just lay the hammer down gently on what would be a live round.

Anyone know if this is now it actually worked or did they take the time to cycle back to an empty tube in the cylinder?


I'd also be interested in hearing any other "myths" of old days that HW has portrayed.

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Well, I don't know that it was a common practice at all to leave a chamber empty.....there were a lot of things in old western life more dangerous than striking a hammer forcefully enough to set it off- and running out of ammo was one of them! Besides, most SA revolvers have a half-cock step to allow loading, one could easily just leave the hammer there. Even many ball and cap pistols had a rest between each cylinder for the hammer to sit in safely. Worst case, I'd just put a piece of rawhide between the hammer and frame rather than give up a round I might need.....

If you were in a situation where gun fighting was likely, you went ahead and loaded all six chambers.

One does not go off half cocked.
The SAA has a safety notch about the quarter cock position. Colt instructions recommended its use... in the 19th century. Holsters in those days were more enveloping and protective. The fast draw is largely an invention of fiction. And, of course, the liability law industry was less developed then.

Especially when headed into a known fight situation, they seem to have loaded all six. Many of even some of the most "realistic" westerns show gunfighters checking their weapons by opening the gate and turning the cylinder, which would mis-align any chamber meant for the spot under the hammer. Kevin Costner does this in "Open Range" before the showdown with Baxter's men, and Thomas Hayden Church does this before bedding down for the night in the open prairie near the beginning of "Broken Trail." Both films star Robert Duvall, and his westerns seem to be pretty well respected.

I've yet to see, in a film or TV show, anyone rotate back to place an empty beneath the hammer. I don't think the producers would bother, since few viewers would understand the action.

^^ I wouldn't discount that just yet. Probably quite a few men did carry that way. I'd bet even more did so in the days of percussion revolvers.

You never saw them unload or change condition of their revolver when they tacked up a wanted poster either,using the butt for a hammer.

I know there are more, but the only two westerns I can think of off the top of my head to address a hammer resting on an empty chamber are True Grit and The Shootist. The first is where Rooster and Mattie are prepping for the shootout at the dugout

Mattie Ross: [watching Rooster load his revolver] Why do you keep that one chamber empty?
Rooster Cogburn: So I won't shoot my foot off.

and the second is the shooting lesson with Ron Howard.

On the subject of realism, or the lack of same, I can't think of the title, but there was one line in a late 50's or early 60's western than always makes me chuckle. The crowd is gathered around the jail, as the Sheriff comes out. Townsman #1 asks what the Sheriff knows, and the response is priceless, "Well, this is a Confederate issue pistol cartridge case." Talk about farby!

Good Ol' Boy said:

I'm aware of the half cock position and was always under the impression that was just for loading and NOT a safe way to carry.

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NOBODY said to carry a SAA in half cock.
A SAA hammer has three notches, full cock to shoot, half cock to load, quarter cock which was considered adequate for carry... 130 years ago.

Even the documentaries are filled with flaws. Northfield Minnesota all the people in town had their guns because it was hunting season.

WHAT!!!!!

Danoobie said:

If you're a fan of the John Wayne movies, look at the scenes where you can see
the back of his gun-belt. There is always a rifle cartridge, something huge, like a 45-70
in the center at the back of the belt. My research indicates this made it easy to find his
particular gun-belt belt, and easier for him to center the gun-belt, when he put it on.

Click to expand...

It was a 32-40 round. Yakima Canut, the first true stuntman told JW during the filming of Stagecoach that "Old time gunfighters would stick a rifle cartridge in the back of their gunbelt so they'd know how many rounds they have left". It was a tactile thing. Probably a BS story from Canut to JW because I never saw/read anywhere else where a so-called gunfighter of note ever did it, but that was JW's reasoning for the practice and it makes a good story.

I always thought the shortcoming in the Peacemaker was the lack of an intercept notch between chambers like the 1851 Navy and 1860 Army (and most others for that matter) where the hammer/firing pin would rest in a notch between the chamber so it wouldn't rest on a percussion cap. Thus, you could load SIX into your SIS shooter, and not have to dick with the skip load method. Of note, the Schofield COULD have the hammer rest between chambers as the cylinder was free to rotate if not a half or full cock.

Colt SAA revolvers can also have the hammer down between chambers. The case heads prevent the cylinder from rotating and you can load all six chambers.

I would NEVER trust the quarter cock position. I have ran across too many Colts that can be fired from that position by pulling the trigger. Never drop the hammer to quarter cock until you place it in firing position and then pull the hammer back to quarter cock.

Good Ol' Boy said:

Well fella's this is news to me. I was always under the impression that with the old SA revolvers one carried only 5 shots and laid the hammer on a empty tube.

I'm aware of the half cock position and was always under the impression that was just for loading and NOT a safe way to carry.

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Sure its not safe, but done anyway.

Its about odds.
Odds that you drop your gun on accident, or need that 6th bullet.

If a "gunfighter" figured he was going to have himself a shoot out, all six seems reasonable to me.

If he is riding the range, 5 aught to do.

The Bushmaster said:

Colt SAA revolvers can also have the hammer down between chambers. The case heads prevent the cylinder from rotating and you can load all six chambers.

I would NEVER trust the quarter cock position. I have ran across too many Colts that can be fired from that position by pulling the trigger. Never drop the hammer to quarter cock until you place it in firing position and then pull the hammer back to quarter cock.

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Yes you can, there are lots of things that "can" be done, but because they "can" doesn't mean they "should" be done. There is no notch to stop the movement of they cylinder, so having the firing pin, at its thinnest(weakest) point bearing the brunt of the rotational torque if something should happen to rotate the cylinder might snap the firing pin...so it's not something I would do. On the Navy and Army Colts, the hammer was at full rest in the notch.

Carrying 5 with an empty chamber under the hammer was used by some and not others. A similar analogy is the practice today of carrying a hunting rifle with an empty chamber. Some do, some don't, but when the time comes when you know your getting ready to need the gun a round is chambered and often times the magazine is topped off.

I'm sure that for general carry, especially on horseback, many maybe most only carried 5. But if they knew trouble was imminent I'd bet most would load the 6th round.

OP asked for other myths and I have a theory on the low slung holsters.
Its an older video so please excuse the sound quality:

Also given to understand that most true mounted "cowboys" kept their pistol on a saddle
mount. The "Western" fast-draw or racer gun-belt is a product of Hollywood.

Danoobie said:

Also given to understand that most true mounted "cowboys" kept their pistol on a saddle
mount. The "Western" fast-draw or racer gun-belt is a product of Hollywood.

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Pretty sure it had to do with what they were doing that day and how much money they had for buying rigs.
Remember that most cowboys were very poor.

Falling off your horse is a reality anytime you get on that critter.

Out riding the range looking for strays or checking fence:
On a belt (if they owned one), usually cross draw (if they owned a holster).
lots of guys would put their pistols in the pocket of their chaps.

Working cattle/roping/building fence/branding:
In the saddle bag.

In Town:
IWB or in a pants/coat pocket.

Biggest one is that every cowboy, his brother, all their friends and cousins owned a firearm and a horse. Most people did not. Both were far too expensive for a run of the mill ranch hand to own. A colt revolver ran $20ish and horse over $100 in the late 19th Century. If a hired guy needed a firearm he was issued one by the ranch owner along with a horse. Usually no firearms allowed in the bunk house either.
Another is that the Winchester rifle won the West. Also too expensive and it was the double barreled shotgun that won the West.
"...the low slung holsters..." The “Buscadero” style holsters are pure Hollywood. Arvo Ojala a movie techie had a patent for low-slung, metal-lined "Quick Draw Holster" granted in 1958 that was used in late 50's and60's movies and TV shows like Gunsmoke. Invented in the 20's specifically for movies and 'stunt shooting'. Real 19th Century holsters were little more than gun shaped pouches.
"...so-called gunfighter of note..." Few and far between themselves.

Sunray said:

Biggest one is that every cowboy, his brother, all their friends and cousins owned a firearm and a horse. Most people did not. Both were far too expensive for a run of the mill ranch hand to own. A colt revolver ran $20ish and horse over $100 in the late 19th Century. If a hired guy needed a firearm he was issued one by the ranch owner along with a horse. Usually no firearms allowed in the bunk house either.
Another is that the Winchester rifle won the West. Also too expensive and it was the double barreled shotgun that won the West.

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Yep. Pretty much in line with my research as well.

for those interested, this article was written for Theodore Roosevelt in 1957:
https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/thro1/rickey.pdf

It details quite a bit about the "cowboy life", tools, and gear.