Looks like SIG was not the only one ...

Sig is going to have to lower prices to be competitive in the Guns that go bang when dropped market.

Me thinks if current political trends last when it comes to half plastic guns full of stamped parts they will all have to come down to Turkish pricing levels.

I have a P320 X Carry on pre-order and has been for months. I talked them yesterday and they pulled all of those and are repairing them, they do not have a tentative ship date. I am good with waiting at least I won't have to return.

I said this before in a different thread.

How many different pistols from different makers will fire at the approximately 30 degree angle that led the P320 to let go?

We don't know and no one knows. That's because standard handgun tests by law enforcement, the military or other agencies don't include that drop angle. The P320 passed all existing tests till someone came up with a new one.

Other handguns were not tested rigorously at that angle.

This presents a problem/challenge for the international firearms industry. They can tests all guns from the new angle, test all future guns from that angle, or ignore the whole mess. Likely they will go for some combination of these things.

Mostly I think they will go with the sober and thoughtful advice that "This gun passed all the tests it needed to to bring it to market, so we figure it's safe. But no gun is foolproof cuz some fool will find a new way to make it go bang when you don't want it to. So don't drop it, mishandle it or futz with it, and be careful out there."

Still, there really isn't any excuse for pistols failing a drop test. Especially modern pistols with redundant FP block safeties. If we can make a series 70 1911 safe.......

They should be impact testing from all angles. [I've been throwing a Sig at the kitchen floor all day to see if it'll ND into my leg. I could use a few million bucks. (and a dishwasher, so far I've only got it to hit the dishwasher)] That's the kind of nonsense that would make me sweat if I was a manufacturer.

I've got no problem being careful with an olde 1911 or single action Colt revolver. I have no problem closing the bolt on a precision rifle gently to prevent a slam fire. But a modern defensive pistol shouldn't have these problems.

wally said:

The "Truth about guns" website, one of the earlier ones showing the issue with the P320, repeated their tests with Glock, M&P, 1911 and some others and none fired. The video of the tests is on youTube, I believe I (or someone else) linked it in a different thread.

Click to expand...

Saw it and loved it.

wally said:

The "Truth about guns" website, one of the earlier ones showing the issue with the P320, repeated their tests with Glock, M&P, 1911 and some others and none fired. The video of the tests is on youTube, I believe I (or someone else) linked it in a different thread.

Click to expand...

I saw that. But you know that the only thing it means is what you saw. Nothing else. It only means that those guns on that bench passed an informal drop test in that room.

You want it to mean more than that, then the industry, the military and law enforcement have to develop a revised set of standards and mandate that all firearms have to pass that new standard in order to be sold or at least, pass muster for for future institutional use.

My uncle Gus can sit in his garage all day drinking beer and tossing guns in the air to see what shoots. It don't mean squat. Industry and institutional standards do. There are none that test for various angles beyond what have been set. At least not so far.

"Still, there really isn't any excuse for pistols failing a drop test."

Sure there is. Think it through. If Federal safety standards mandate that a car must survive a 35 mph head on collision, and the car maker builds a car to that standard, then it cannot be held accountable if it fails at 45 mph.

The P320 passed every drop test it faced. Till it met my my Uncle Gus.

I wouldn't be surprised if them boys entertaining themselves by dropping guns on hard surface don't discover more. Let us just hope they use snap caps or empty primed cases plus ear protection when doing them tests. I suspect the new torture test will be throwing guns agains walls in addition to dumping them in mud pits.

looks like any plastic striker fired is going to have to pass the 30 degree drop test from now on!

seems like canik is doing a "cya" (cover your backside) here before they get drop tested by the youtube masses. good for them.

murf

And the forces that hate guns and gun ownership and love anything that requires many more laws and the lawyers to interpret them are watching all this from the sidelines and licking their chops.

Gary A said:

And the forces that hate guns and gun ownership and love anything that requires many more laws and the lawyers to interpret them are watching all this from the sidelines and licking their chops.

Click to expand...

Exactly Gary... and theres way to much child proofing going on today.
Best thing to do is not let grown up clumsy children play with firearms.

tipoc said:

I saw that. But you know that the only thing it means is what you saw. Nothing else. It only means that those guns on that bench passed an informal drop test in that room.

You want it to mean more than that, then the industry, the military and law enforcement have to develop a revised set of standards and mandate that all firearms have to pass that new standard in order to be sold or at least, pass muster for for future institutional use.

My uncle Gus can sit in his garage all day drinking beer and tossing guns in the air to see what shoots. It don't mean squat. Industry and institutional standards do. There are none that test for various angles beyond what have been set. At least not so far.

"Still, there really isn't any excuse for pistols failing a drop test."

Sure there is. Think it through. If Federal safety standards mandate that a car must survive a 35 mph head on collision, and the car maker builds a car to that standard, then it cannot be held accountable if it fails at 45 mph.

The P320 passed every drop test it faced. Till it met my my Uncle Gus.

Click to expand...

I think a better analogy would be excusing the automaker if the vehicle failed the 35mph standards when travelling 120mph.
An unintended discharge from a 4 foot drop? That's a real world situation and a real world problem. No one would fault SIG if the gun fired from a 120 foot drop.....

tipoc said:

I saw that. But you know that the only thing it means is what you saw. Nothing else. It only means that those guns on that bench passed an informal drop test in that room.

You want it to mean more than that, then the industry, the military and law enforcement have to develop a revised set of standards and mandate that all firearms have to pass that new standard in order to be sold or at least, pass muster for for future institutional use.

My uncle Gus can sit in his garage all day drinking beer and tossing guns in the air to see what shoots. It don't mean squat. Industry and institutional standards do. There are none that test for various angles beyond what have been set. At least not so far.

"Still, there really isn't any excuse for pistols failing a drop test."

Sure there is. Think it through. If Federal safety standards mandate that a car must survive a 35 mph head on collision, and the car maker builds a car to that standard, then it cannot be held accountable if it fails at 45 mph.

The P320 passed every drop test it faced. Till it met my my Uncle Gus.

Click to expand...

So you're in a 35 mph car crash. And now there's a 9mm hole in your leg, thats due to pistols that can't handle getting knocked around. Sounds great.

This is unacceptable:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I recommend sending your pistol back and getting it fixed.

A plastic hammer is not much different from climbing in/out of a semi truck and getting hung up, or walking into a door frame:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

My 1911's and Glocks have plenty of dings there, and we all know someone who has broken a 1911 hammer.

He makes a mistake in this video assuming that the trigger/drop safety on the Glocks, and the grip safety on the Xd can prevent this. It's not always trigger movement that causes the failure.

For example If you can jar a Glock hard enough to get the bar to drop and let the striker fly forward (even though it's only half cocked), that Glock can fire an easy to ignite primer like Federal or Blazer ammo. The FP safety needs to be stuck up, or jarred up, or bumped by trigger movement as well. Basically, a Glock that someone has messed up by removing the pretravel with an aftermarket trigger.

I never thought a half cocked striker fired pistol could ignite a primer, until I saw it personally from a bubba'd gun.

Zerodefect said:

A plastic hammer is not much different from climbing in/out of a semi truck and getting hung up, or walking into a door frame:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

My 1911's and Glocks have plenty of dings there, and we all know someone who has broken a 1911 hammer.

He makes a mistake in this video assuming that the trigger/drop safety on the Glocks, and the grip safety on the Xd can prevent this. It's not always trigger movement that causes the failure.

For example If you can jar a Glock hard enough to get the bar to drop and let the striker fly forward (even though it's only half cocked), that Glock can fire an easy to ignite primer like Federal or Blazer ammo. The FP safety needs to be stuck up, or jarred up, or bumped by trigger movement as well. Basically, a Glock that someone has messed up by removing the pretravel with an aftermarket trigger.

I never thought a half cocked striker fired pistol could ignite a primer, until I saw it personally from a bubba'd gun.

Click to expand...

I actually stumbled across that vid this morning while looking up something else on YouTube. I'm not going to call it conclusive, nor will I fault anyone for carrying their 320 feeling that the gun is safe enough. It's a pretty specific way to get a gun to fire unintentionally. However, I still don't see how it's acceptable for the 320 to fire this way "fairly" easily compared to beating the Glock, Ruger, H&K, etc 50 times without getting them to fire.

I don't find expecting a pistol behave similarly to its peers as nanny-statism. It's not like we are comparing a Jeep Wangler and a Volvo regarding crash tests. Yes, there is always going to be more of a risk driving a car with no doors and no top compared to a car that hangs its hat on being one of the safest machines on the road. However, I see this more along the line of comparing a Camry, Fusion, and Maxima. These are all similarly sized and purposed sedans here. In my mind, pretty much every duty/carry polymer pistol should be able handle the same drops, falls, bangs, and tosses.

I do expect to see a lot more manufacturers making sure that they can hold up to more strict drop firing standards. Not that I am "scared" to carry a gun that can go off like the 320, but seeing the Glock and Ruger take a beating without going off does inspire a bit more confidence.

Hang in there folks, i`ll bet there will be new laws coming... you know the scenario... knee jerk reaction from ONE INCIDENT.
Now all the gun makers are in a panic mode. Hey, guess what, ALL GUNS are 100% safe, until dumb people handle them.
Kinda like automobiles... perfectly safe, until you add dumb people to the mix... now cars are overloaded with safety features.
Think about what this will all cost, not to just add more safety features, but function AND price, to ALL guns.

Here comes the gun haters... demanding everything but love, for the firearm, and the people, that build, own, shoot, them.

The guy in the video states that he didn't think Sig tried to "rub it in". In my opinion Sig did try to "rub it in" based on this ad.

yawn

Signado!

Someone in their garage found a new way to make a polymer gun go off with one specific version of a trigger in it (out of 2 or three versions that Sig had in the 320) in a test that no one had required that any gun pass. It ain't a good thing, but it certainly ain't the worst. "Unacceptable!" cry out the offended. OK. Then get the version version with the same trigger the U.S. Army just got. Problem solved.

The Sig 320 was introduced in 2014 as I recall. The trigger has been changed a couple of times. Later versions are better, and apparently safer, than the earlier versions.

The 1911 and 1911A1 are likely to fire if dropped from 4 feet onto concrete and land on the muzzle. Shocking! The gov't placed our servicemen and women in danger for over a century with this! Outrageous! In the 1930's Colt even offered a fix for it! So they knew! So did the gov't! And everybody else! Proof of conspiracy! Unacceptable! The righteous are righteously outraged!

This is another of a long list of gun issues.

In other news...Glocks have Ka-Booms!

Is gun. Is dangerous.

tipoc said:

Signado!

Someone in their garage found a new way to make a polymer gun go off with one specific version of a trigger in it (out of 2 or three versions that Sig had in the 320) in a test that no one had required that any gun pass. It ain't a good thing, but it certainly ain't the worst. "Unacceptable!" cry out the offended. OK. Then get the version version with the same trigger the U.S. Army just got. Problem solved.

The Sig 320 was introduced in 2014 as I recall. The trigger has been changed a couple of times. Later versions are better, and apparently safer, than the earlier versions.

The 1911 and 1911A1 are likely to fire if dropped from 4 feet onto concrete and land on the muzzle. Shocking! The gov't placed our servicemen and women in danger for over a century with this! Outrageous! In the 1930's Colt even offered a fix for it! So they knew! So did the gov't! And everybody else! Proof of conspiracy! Unacceptable! The righteous are righteously outraged!

This is another of a long list of gun issues.

In other news...Glocks have Ka-Booms!

Is gun. Is dangerous.

Click to expand...

AGREED...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guns are dangerous, in the wrong hands, just like a million other things out there in the world...PERIOD

"ANY FIREARM MAY FIRE IF DROPPED". This general warning is indeed a potential for any make/model firearm, and shouldn't be gobsmacking news to any firearm owner.

Any fire arm I'm going to carry has to withstand things hitting it or being dropped. I'm not bed ridden. I actually carry my pistol, to actual places other than a range.

"Any firearm can fire if dropped." Is not a free pass. It's BS. My 1911 and Glock will not fire if dropped or hit.