Game changer? .44 power with .40 S&W recoil + 16 round capacity.

They have been showing them for several years with no merchandise on the shelves yet.

I will say that I like the looks of the gun. It reminds me of a CZ Shadow 2, and it appears to have a heavy frame to absorb recoil.

So it fires a 95 grain bullet at 2000 ft/sec.from a 6 inch barrel............... Ok, well ft/lbs is becoming more and more irrelevant in my mind the longer I shoot. I'm more concerned with choosing a cartridge and platform that will simply accomplish what I want rather than maximixing this or that. Despite them choosing to shoot a caribou or reindeer, depending on where they were, this is clearly meant as a self defense or military cartridge. It of course would be effective in either role.

However, between 9mm, 40 S&W. 357 sig, and 45 acp, I don't really see that we don't have this covered already. Personally, I'm a believer that bullet weight is far more important when possibly using a gun in a defensive situation. There IS the possibility, however small, that shooting through glass, drywall, sheet metal, or some other barrier will be required. In those circumstances, a heavier bullet is more likely to fight off the effects of deflection. They are also more likely to penetrate well through heavy clothing. I saw no mention of body armor penetration or any barrier penetration, however they did have a "human bone simulant". I'm not sure what that means.

So, here's another thought, the 10mm can push a 100 grain bullet at 1825 ft/sec., and I'm guessing that's from a shorter than 6" barrel. However, sectional density would be higher in this new cartridge, given the 7.5 vs 10mm diameters and bullet weights

https://underwoodammo.com/product/handgun-ammo/10mm-auto-100-grain-xtreme-defender/

Propelling light bullets at extremely high speeds isn't a new concept. There are a host of very fast, but lite cartridges out there. Many of them are popular in Europe and Asia based on some of the reading I've done.

I can live without one. If the cartridge takes off, and ammo and the guns that fire it become more readily available, it might be something I look at in the distant future. But I don't see that this cartridge is really going to do anything much better than what is already available.

It also seems a little erroneous to look at the ftlbs being generated, and making an assertion that it equals 44 magnum performance. The bullet weights makes the application of this cartridge completely different than a 44 magnum, and the behavior of the bullets will be completely different as well.

Nice idea, but it isn't really a new one. Nice gun, but there are lots of nice guns that are cheaper to shoot. Interesting ballistics but I don't necessarily feel it's interesting enough for me to drop a bunch of money on a new gun or cartridge. Maybe some day, but not anytime soon.

A 357 will get you to 800ft lbs with BB ammo in a 5' barrel. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/6...llow-point-high-velocity-box-of-20?cm_vc=S016.............https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=100...... and that energy will actually translate to something once it hits a target, that is momentum/penetration. Cant say the recoil will be light, but out of a GP100, its not too bad. A little more than 45 auto

not sure either what 44 they're talking about. A 44 mag(the one everyone will be thinking) can get 1300 FT/LB. 900 is way closer to .357/10mm

.357Sig and .45GAP were supposed to be game changers too. I will wait and see if anyone decides to start picking these up in bulk.

That round's performance sounds a LOT like an M1 Carbine's round performance, just out of a pistol.

Let's see, .30 Mauser, .30 Luger, 7.62 Tokarev, .32 NAA, all extremely popular because they are so incredibly effective? IMHO best handgun round: 9mm for CC, .45 ACP for general SD.
9mm has put down more bad guys than all other calibers combined.

Not exactly the same thing but with a 6" .40 S&W KKM bbl in my Glock 35 I've ran 135gr past 1,850 fps, which is north of 1,025 ft-lbs. That's not really my point, my point is that .44 Mag power is achieved with heavy bullets, not light ones. I could say my loading above has 44 Mag levels of power but that's not exactly true.

Everything new is supposed to be a game changer, otherwise not a single one would be sold. To me, developing a new round in a new large, heavy gun is folly in this day and age. There's already more choices than most of us can deal with, and it seems to me that the biggest sellers nowadays are affordable sidearms in common calibers for CCW and HD, but that's just my opinion.

Sorry but I'd rather have a long slide 10mm Glock with good ammo that can get nearly that level of energy but with 180-200 grain bullets performing much better on larger animals I'm sure and with 135 grain loads for humans over some exotic European vaporware wonder pistol shooting a proprietary cartridge.

grampajack said:

So who else can't live without one?

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I love shooting CZ.52 - the small fast round makes it completely different experience compared to the slow fat rounds. I always felt sorry that the gun did not undergo any further development. As regards ballistics, I would hope that we could get further with a gun/cartridge that comes 63 years later.

Jim Watson said:

They have been showing them for several years with no merchandise on the shelves yet.

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I first saw them at IWA in 2015 - they were kept behind glass as an ongoing project.

According to Czech Business Registry the company FK Brno was established in 2014 and underwent the following changes that seem to suggest they are about to go big:

FK BRNO ENGINEERING, limited:
March 2014: Original owner Czech MIROSLAV NOVÁK pulls out, his CEO position is taken by German CARSTEN SLABKE
October 2015: Company Capital raised from 400K CZK (some 15K USD) to 104M CZK (some 4M USD) through investment of Jordanian FAISAL KEDAIRY.
March 2016: Ownership structure changes - FK Engineering now owned by FK Brno Corporation

FK BRNO CORPORATION, joint stock company
Ownership: Unknown (20 stocks)

CEO: CARSTEN SLABKE

Supervisory board (all new Q4 2016)
1. MISHAL QADRI (UK)
2. IMAD STANFORD DAMAH (US - FL)
3. MASSIMO TANFOGLIO (IT)

Given that, I would not be surprised if Jordanian Royal Family would be already using these for hunting. Meanwhile their webpage suggests that they are getting ready to start earning on their investment (the does not even have Czech language section): https://www.fkbrno.com/

460Shooter said:

However, between 9mm, 40 S&W. 357 sig, and 45 acp, I don't really see that we don't have this covered already. Personally, I'm a believer that bullet weight is far more important when possibly using a gun in a defensive situation.

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CZ.52 earned reputation as a cop killer in Europe in the early 1990s due to its ballistic performance against standard issue vests while CZ.61 earned reputation as mafia hit gun due to simple full auto operation and lack of recoil. Two completely different rounds that are now considered obsolete but both served their role much better than the common ammo of the era or today.

The main terminal advantage of fast small round is hydrodynamic shock that leads to a large scale internal bleeding. This is what puts the target down the fastest, and you can't get the same performance from any of the rounds you mentioned.

tactikel said:

9mm has put down more bad guys than all other calibers combined.

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No statistic to back it up but if you want to talk about number of people taken down by one given pistol cartridge, there's been quite bloody path left behind these

Cooldill said:

Sorry but I'd rather have a long slide 10mm Glock with good ammo that can get nearly that level of energy but with 180-200 grain bullets performing much better on larger animals

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Energy, yes.

Large scale hydrodynamic shock? Not even comparable.

grampajack said:

t's heavy compared to most carry guns. But if you're someone who's already carrying a 1911 or other full size pistol then this thing makes a GREAT deal of sense.

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I CC full size CZ 75 (9mm) completely comfortably, have no issue with CCing even larger vz.52, but FK is beyond what I would consider useful carry gun.

In a car for civilian (hell its rifle performance out of a large pistol) or as a sidearm of a pilot who is not moving around cockpit or tank crew that needs a useful PDW, sounds quite good.

I too am quite interested to see how the 7.5 FK Brno cartridge ends up--whether it is a dead end development or something great. On the face of it, the makers are claiming M1 Carbine ballistics out of a pistol. Splendid, and in a carbine the cartridge should do even better. I think the cartridge would be interesting in a very small and light bolt-action carbine with a pistol-cartridge-length action.

I don't think the cartridge is going to take off in popularity, though, if the only guns that take it are super pricey and the ammo is single-source. That appears to be the scenario that is developing. Sounds a little like Wildey.

Kendal Black said:

I don't think the cartridge is going to take off in popularity, though, if the only guns that take it are super pricey and the ammo is single-source. That appears to be the scenario that is developing. Sounds a little like Wildey.

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Looking at the name of the Supervisory Board Member No. 3 can leave one hopeful...

This gun/ammo had another thread here awhile back. At that time I went to check it out and everything was made to appear like the gun would be put any day. Looks like nothing has changed.

While I was excited about this gun at first, I quickly realized that it is very likely stillborn. Ammo, bullets, brass, dies and/or loading data (take your pick) will at best limit the cartridge to obscurity. Take a look at what happened to the 5.7x28 (and the even worse-off 4.6x30) and those results would apply in a successful introduction to the marketplace.

The application is too limited and the platform too expensive IMO to succeed, although the concept of the gun mechanism itself seems pretty intriguing.

Havok7416 said:

Take a look at what happened to the 5.7x28 (and the even worse-off 4.6x30) and those results would apply in a successful introduction to the marketplace.

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MP7 are making their way to police forces around Europe. However H&K is not very civilian friendly to civilian customers in Europe when it comes to PDW, so the trend will probably not impact the civilian market.

4,6x30mm is at least available:

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/4.6x30mm

The 7,5 FK will be an expensive elitist's cartridge that will have to be reloaded. Factory ammunition will never be affordable enough for the average shooter, as the average shooter also does not reload. While it will certainly have its following, especially in the Czech Republic, it will end up in the same group as .41 Magnum, .327 Federal, and a myriad of other wonder cartridges that just never caught on.

At least this is what I predict. I DO hope to be proven wrong, as it is interesting for sure. Jim Cirillo, a famous NYPD cop, said the .30 carbine with soft tips was the best "stopper" he had ever seen. If we can milk this performance from a pistol, I imagine it would be a highly effective personal defense weapon and will have excellent body armor defeating characteristics when using armor-piercing ammunition.

But until that time, I stand by my thoughts that the 10mm is about the most impressive semi-automatic handgun cartridge that still allows for a "full capacity" and acceptable size and weight for comfortable carry.

They're using the Alfa Proj Model 3541 - .357 Magnum as the comparison test gun

https://www.czechpoint-usa.com/czechpoint-3541?l=1

Snejdarek said:

Looking at the name of the Supervisory Board Member No. 3 can leave one hopeful...

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I can't find that bit of information. Perhaps it is common knowledge where you are, but could you fill me in on what you mean? Good news if the name is Moore, or perhaps Ježíšek.

Living in the US, I find it difficult to keep track of what the arms industry there is doing.

grampajack said:

Just look at the Desert Eagle. If that monstrosity can survive in the marketplace, then this thing shouldn't have any trouble whatsoever

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The Desert Eagle survives because Hollywood wonks put it in every movie and then people go into gun stores and ask "Do you have that gun like _______ used in the movie _____ ?

C0untZer0 said:

They're using the Alfa Proj Model 3541 - .357 Magnum as the comparison test gun

https://www.czechpoint-usa.com/czechpoint-3541?l=1

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I have never seen one of those either. That is frustrating because people ask my opinion about revolvers, possibly because I am the last fossil they know who actually carries one or two (but who's counting?) I hear stories, at Alfa Proj they make blank guns and gas and rubber guns, so their firearm is no good. But no, I hear again, they know what they are doing and the gun is okay, if you think an Apache is okay. Or, no again, this is the best budget revolver ever, Taurus and Charter look out.

I hope the gun industry in the Republic lives up to its best former accomplishments, both high-priced offerings and the other kind, but without guns in hand I, of course, have no idea.

I can get 1300 fps with 200 gr Double Tap ammo in my 10mm for 750 ft lbs energy. That bullet has penetrated several FEET through some large dangerous game. Recoil is less than 357 or 44 mag. While I've never tried them Buffalo Bore has some very comparable loads. I'll stick with 10mm if I need power in a semi-auto.