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Game changer? .44 power with .40 S&W recoil + 16 round capacity.

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by grampajack, Sep 15, 2017.

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  1. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Member

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    Here is the Alfa Proj website:

    http://www.strelivo-zbrane.cz/zbrane-na-zbrojni-prukaz/revolvery/

    I have the 9mm Model 9231 and I like it. It's not as cheap as a Taurus 905 or Charter Arms 9mm PITBULL, but its not as expensive as the Smiths.
     
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  2. Kendal Black

    Kendal Black Member

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    For a while, the chums were trying to fire .30 bullets in sabots out of .429 and .454 revolvers, but the bullets went just everywhere. There is a good idea behind the 7.5 FK, but we want to know what it really achieves, how much it really weighs, does it actually function, and we are suspicious of how much it costs.

    Emperors-New-Clothes.jpg
     
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  3. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Member

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    Am I wrong or does this video show their 7.5mm bullet passing through 19" of gel ?

     
  4. Danoobie

    Danoobie Member

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    I'm sorry, I apologize, but I'm lousy with this computer stuff. Where, exactly, can you buy one of these?
     
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  5. Havok7416
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    Havok7416 Member

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    Nowhere at the moment and likely nowhere at all.
     
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  6. Havok7416
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    Havok7416 Member

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    The Desert Eagle is not a good comparison here. It was first introduced in .357 with (interchangeable) offerings later in .41 AE, .44 Mag and .50 AE. The .41 AE never got very far. Caliber conversions make the g7n more versatile since it allows more practical calibers to be used, particularly when stepping down from .50 AE. The .50 AE in particular and the Desert Eagle in any caliber survive because they are the biggest and baddest semi-auto/cartridge.
     
  7. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I've been watching this one for a while, maybe 18mos - 2yrs ago it went on my hit list.

    I'm a big fan of bottleneck handgun cartridges, so I'll be buying one if it makes it to market, and if they don't make theirs to market, I might do my own necked down 460rowland or 10mm, bringing it down to 9mm bullets. Been pondering on that one for a while. 22 Jet, FN 5.7, 22TCM, 256win, 357/44, 357sig, .250 banshee, 17HMR, 30-30win, .429 GNR... way too much fun to be had with high velocity handguns...

    As a dedicated 44-o-phile, I will say - this thing doesn't come close. It's a super cool round, but energy doesn't paint a clear picture. I run 300 XTP's seated in the second cannelure which will top 1300fps without flattening primers, faster if I push until cases stick - a light bullet matching that for kinetic energy still won't perform the same on game. But it's still a super cool pistol and round, just like any of the other bottle babies we pack into conventional framed handguns. I'll be looking to run an optic on mine, no interest in the flimsy little butt stock attachment, but I'd be wanting to string mine out as far as it can be.
     
  8. Havok7416
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    Havok7416 Member

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    So something like .400 Corbon or 9x25 Dillon?
     
  9. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Member

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    You can still buy 9x25 Dillon ammo. DoubleTap and Underwood make it in 95gr, 125gr and 147gr. And you can get a 9 x 25 Dillon conversion barrel for a Glock 20.

    The 9x25 Dillon is a game changer :)


    .
     
  10. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    Just read my post above.

     
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  11. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    Well they cater to the customer base and for most of Europe, blank, gas and rubber is the only way to go.

    Otherwise, they have the "Holek" line made of a light alloy and "Steel" line made of... well you know.

    I planned on buying one of their upper tier steel line models but then the EU Gun Ban happened and suddenly all gun expenses went towards semi-auto rifles (heck I even waited 9 months for the Savage MSR 10 Long Range by which time the grandfathering clause limit closed, but still, it's home).
     
  12. DaisyCutter

    DaisyCutter Member

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    Their 95 grain projectile at 2000 fps has about 27 ft*lbs of momentum.

    A 210 grain 44 Mag at 1600 fps has 48 ft*lbs of momentum.

    That is barely half (56%) the performance of 44 Mag.

    Kinetic energy greatly favors light & fast projectiles. Momentum, in my experience, is a better indicator of performance.
     
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  13. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Before you spend all your money on this new wonder gun, come see me. I own a bridge in Massachusetts that I'll sell cheap.
     
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  14. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    You are assuming I want to shred the insides of my target. I understand the premise and how it works, but I don't particularly want to kill anyone, even if they are attacking me. I want them to stop attacking me, that's all. The rounds I mentioned all have a long running solid track record of doing exactly what I mentioned, stopping the threat. Maybe an ultra fast and lite projectile will accomplish that also, but I'm fine, and I'm guessing other people are fine too, with my low cost cartridges.

    I'm not saying this new round isn't going to be effective, I'm saying it is accomplishing the same outcome, so why is this better? Because it causes a different type of wound? Ok, fair enough. I still think we have our needs covered with the cartridges I listed.

    I think there is very real military application here, but I don't see this being tremendously popular for civilian use. Maybe I'm wrong, and that's fine. Variety and options are always welcome. I may buy one some day if they materialize, but I doubt they will ever be popular enough to really take off.
     
  15. Kendal Black

    Kendal Black Member

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    Thanks for filling me in. Sorry about the EU gun laws. Is it perhaps time to consider Czechsit?
     
  16. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    Brits soiled it for everyone hopeful. They had an opportunity to turn Brexit into something great but instead they are unable to even formulate the list of demands they have as regards the divorce with EU. Meanwhile their economy is slowly but surely starting to stare into the abyss as banks are already moving away (due to government inability to start negotiating seriously in a way that would allow UK based banks continue business in EU), farming is going to hell (as the migrant workers are leaving due to combination of falling pound and anti-immigration rhetoric/planned anti-immigration laws) and manufacturing companies are about to take the same decision (as they will most probably not be able to rely on their continental supply chain - which is a problem especially for car manufacturing that has moved to "right in time" deliveries over the past decade).

    With Brits failing this big, it would be hard to convince majority of Czechs to leave the EU. At least not now that the migrant crisis has mostly boiled over (for now).

    When it comes to gun owners, its a clear issue though. Unfortunately there are not nearly enough of us, even though the numbers are slowly but steadily going up.
     
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  17. Kendal Black

    Kendal Black Member

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    It might make sense as a wilderness defense pistol, with solid bullets for deep penetration. Of course, that makes it a handier-to-carry equivalent of the M1 Carbine, no one's idea of a dangerous game gun, but pistols are in general underpowered for such use. Would this caliber be a better hedge bet than 10mm Auto?
     
  18. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    The problem is if you want penetration on a thick hided, heavily muscled, and heavily boned dangerous animal, a heavier bullet caries a lot more momentum and bone breaking capability. The reindeer they shot in the video does have a lot of muscle and relatively heavy bones. However, it does not have a thick hide, just fur. Also, as you know, there is a big difference between taking a well aimed shot at a stationary animal and taking a shot at a charging bear, moose, or other type of perturbed beasty. When I see evidence this round can penetrate one of those animals musculature, AND break bones that will disable a charging critter, then I'll think about adjusting my thinking. I regularly hike in bear and moose country, and I have accidently found myself closer than is safe. I want a large heavy bullet that's going to pass through.

    If this cartridge and platform have any application, in my mind it is with personal defense against humans. It does seem to have low recoil and a pretty decent capacity. But here's the thing, if I can buy a Glock 20 or 29 in 10mm, and run some really light and fast rounds through it like I mentioned earlier, why do I need an obscure vapor-ware gun that shoots magical mach 16 bullets? Same effect, different cartridge, less obscurity with the 10mm.

    I'm biased. I just ventured into 10mm and the more I explore the possible loadings of that cartridge, from 105 grain pills zipping along at over 1800 ft/second, to 230 grain hard casts chugging along at 1200 ft/sec, I almost wish I had never gotten into 45 acp and 9mm. It seems to me I can accomplish anything those two cartridges can accomplish with the 10mm loaded differently.

    Anything except find a VARIETY of different small concealable guns that are chambered for 10mm. Glock seems to be it, and I don't care for Glocks. I'm waiting to see what Springfield comes out with. I desperately want the HK P30sk or VP9sk to be offered in 10mm. It'll never happen though. If I really got my wish, they would be all steel guns.

    All of that aside, I just don't see that this new cartridge will stop the threat any faster than any of the well established cartridges out there.
     
  19. Snejdarek

    Snejdarek Member

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    Well I don't know about the new round, but as far as the "old fast" 7.62x25 goes, I would not worry about it not being able to penetrate and break bones. After all it gained cop killer reputation in Europe in the 90s.

     
  20. SKILCZ

    SKILCZ Member

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    While it looks like fun to shoot, if the ammo performs sufficiently well, Democrats will likely try to ban it for civilian use like they did with the good 5.7x28 mm ammo. Imagine the negative phrases they'll use ("armor-piercing," "cop killer," etc.) and maybe invent new ones ("high-powered extra-lethal assault sniper mass shooter pistol").
     
  21. grampajack

    grampajack AR Junkie

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    Care to elaborate?

    AFAIK, FN is the one blocking SS190. Under US law it's not illegal because it doesn't fit the legal definition of armor piercing. It's basically the same thing as M855 in that it has a mild steel penetrator.

    I don't see this as being anything on their hit list. It's no different than 10mm, 44 magnum, etc. I doubt it will even register on their radar.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  22. stompah

    stompah Member

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    So what makes this new round better than a 90gr 9x25 Dillon also at 2000fps?

    .22 TCM?
    5.7?
    Etc?

    Is it just a bunch of hype? I'm leaning towards yes.
     
  23. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I agree with the sentiment - as most on THR seem to - suggesting KE means considerably less than momentum.

    However...

    There are applications in which a 95grn projectile at high velocity is perfectly suitable, while a MUCH slower 210grn projectile is not. Wanna kill a coyote at 200yrds? This round would do the job upon arrival, and the 44mag would have almost 40% more drop to get there, let alone being chambered in a long barreled revolver or a Desert Eagle, rather than a 5" pistol. Not many of us take on such foolishness, of course, but for those of us who enjoy it, long range handgunning is bought on the back of increased velocity.
     
  24. Salmoneye

    Salmoneye Member

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    Still not available in the US, and the last number I saw was $7,500...

     
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  25. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    :rofl:
     
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