1851 Navy & beginner

1861 said:

I still have no idea how does that work, so I'll just skip that. It seems that everyone on the web (from the USA) agree that THE BEST screwdrivers for gunsmithing are BROWNELLS. I'll check now the prices and availability of those.

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I would say so. I've used them for over 50 years.

Brownells got a UK shop.

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That does not ship outside UK...

How will I know which screwdrivers (WHICH SIZE) I need for my Pietta Navy 1851?

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Take a caliper and a feeler gauge (sold in auto-parts stores) - measure your 1861 bolt heads, divide your measurements in mm by 25,6 to get the value in inches. If you cannot find a close match, it's always better to get the next bigger size and ground it to fit. Quality screwdrivers (or bits) are made in Europe also, but unfortunately for you they are not bearing the label "Gunsmith special"... Beta, Facom, Bahco, Gedore are just some of the quality brands.
A hint: in England a "screwdriver" is called a "turnscrew". That name now is mostly reserved for gunsmith specific screwdrivers.

I could avoid problems with caps by buying Kirst Konverter

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You didn't even fired one shot from your revolver and you already want a conversion cylinder?!? Which, BTW, requires a handgun license to buy...

That ebay seller I linked will ship internationally if you contact him for a shipping quote.

1861 said:

rodwha, why Pietta / Uberti / Colt didn't do it like that in a first place?

I could avoid problems with caps by buying Kirst Konverter

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I don't think Colt made pistols had those issues. They wouldn't have sold well if they did.

...but everyone says that Brownells is the best...

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Brownells screwdrivers are very well made indeed, but the real reason to call them "the best" is because they offer various specific sizes - like narrow slot screwdrivers/bits, that fit the bolts of European style shotguns for example. But please, do understand something very important - even the best made screwdriver is useless if it does not fit the bolt slots precisely. It is much more common then some people think for gunsmiths to grind their screwdrivers to fit a specific gun. Some companies even offer gunsmith screwdrivers that are hollow ground only on one side - you are the one that is supposed to fit them to your needs. You cannot use thinner/narrower blades because the bolt head will get damaged in no time. Italian replicas are well known for it's softer bolts and this makes the problem even worse. This is the reason why I strongly suggest to buy a set of quality screwdrivers and ground them to fit your gun. It does not matter if they are gunsmith specific, or for general use. Fit them to your gun - that's what matters.

1861 said:

That's what I thought. But Piettas sell well as well. Aren't Piettas supposed to be the exact reproductions of original Colt?

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Not at all. Uberti seems to come closer to exact with parts sometimes interchangeable. Pietta is not that exact and for the sake of cost use, for instance, the same frame and cylinder for their .36 cal Remington that they do for their .44 thus making it larger and heavier.

But then Uberti's arbor/base pin on Colts is too short...

Now they get close enough as far as looks and workings go.

After technology moved forward these old styles of guns were no longer produced. When "Colt" made a run of these in the 20th century they bought them unfinished from the Italian repro guys and finished them here. They weren't truly a Colt.

The cost to produce them here would keep most people from buying them. I doubt anyone but match shooters would pay the price they'd command, especially as we can buy normal cartridge guns for that price or even less. The cylinders requiring nipples and the addition of the loading lever assembly adds to the cost.

I have no clue how using the milder steel effects the cost though, which is what most muzzleloaders/BP arms use.

I have a Ruger Old Army which is made from modern gun steel. The cost then was similar to a base model cartridge gun. But being made of better steel it can handle extremely high pressures in comparison as Bill Ruger tested and proved.

I really want Brownells, but it'll be very hard for me to get them, since they avoid my part of the world.

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I'm afraid I was not clear enough - only European branches of Brownells does not ship outside their home country, but Brownells.com (USA) does ship worldwide (with some restrictions, naturally). Information is readily available on their site, by the way (Tried and tested - they do ship, even parts & tools above the $100 limit without problems).
BOSCH bits are OK for a start, despite being made in Vietnam - reasonably tough, true to size and the cost is low enough to not bother much. Now go get some diamond nail files, some cold beer and a nice movie and proceed to thin that troublesome bit. Top that with a fancy bit handle and you are good to go - Brownells Magna-Tip bits are the same size, so you can upgrade your kit later on.

After technology moved forward these old styles of guns were no longer produced. When "Colt" made a run of these in the 20th century they bought them unfinished from the Italian repro guys and finished them here. They weren't truly a Colt.

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Rodwha, if I remember correctly, a Belgian company made those Colt branded replicas - Centaure models, made in Fabriques d’Armes Unies de Liège.

...they ship to your country, not mine...

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Sorry!

The short ones like that fit directly into handles that have magnets in them. The handles are almost always sold in sets with a variety of the hex bits with them. Any of the tool departments in any store that sells tools should have sets of this sort. Even in France I would imagine. In this country I've seen sets of such screwdriver tips in a box with a magnetic handle in the "home care" tools and supplies section of grocery stores. I can't imagine that it would be hard to find such a set in your local area.

Some of the extra tips can be ground to flat points using a small grinding tip in a rotary tool similar to a Dremel. Or if you have access to a bench grinder and use a diamond wheel dresser to dress the corner of the wheel to a rounded shape you could re-grind the less usable tips to become flat blades more suitable for your needs. But using a bench grinder would leave the scratch marks running teh wrong way and make the tip more prone to fracture away. So get it close to what you want then finish it with a rotary tool and a finer grade drum sander so the scratch marks run long the face instead of across it.

Of course all this assumes you have a shop area where you can do such things. Also it requires a keen eye to get the shape perfect and care to avoid overheating the metal to blue and past where it will leave the steel in a soft state.

Another excellent gun service screwdriver kit option comes from a company called "Wheeler". When I did a search on Amazon France I found the Large 89pc Set. But it may be more than you're willing to pay. Wheeler also has a 43 pc set which is around half the price. But I can't seem to find it on Amazon Fr. I did find it on Ebay France though.... Here it is.

1861 said:

I still have no idea how does that work, so I'll just skip that. It seems that everyone on the web (from the USA) agree that THE BEST screwdrivers for gunsmithing are BROWNELLS. I'll check now the prices and availability of those.

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A lot of folks in the US buy a lot of their supplies from Brownells. So I'm not surprised that they like the Brownells screw drivers as well. I'm sure that they are excellent. But the Wheeler products have worked fine for me for almost a decades worth of tinkering with my guns. You won't be disappointed if you have to "settle" for a Wheeler set.

I was hoping that I'd be reading a range report. But it seems you have not gotten all the supplies you require yet. I noticed a few things in the last 20 or so posts of reading to catch up.

First off I do feel it's a good idea to press the caps to the nipples with a firm push to ensure that they are seated fully. For myself I prefer to use a hardwood stick that is cut off on the end at a slight angle and then shaved so the end is about 6mm round. The idea is that the softness of the hardwood won't deform the cap by much. On at least one of my own cap and ball revolvers the nipples require me to press the caps on firmly enough that I would worry about bending a capper if I were to use it to do this seating press. Either way when seating the caps the pressure should not cause any issues. But just in case I always assume that a capped chamber can go off at any time and for any reason. So I hold the revolvers in such a way that my fingers and hand are not in front of any of the chamber mouths while capping and pushing the caps to seat them.

You asked about using smaller amounts of powder. Nothing wrong with trying that. I would not go much less than 7 to 10gns though or the energy might not be enough to ensure the ball leaves the barrel. And if you don't notice that it didn't exit then truly bad things will occur when the next ball runs into the one that is stuck in the bore. Also recall from earlier in this thread the warnings to use wads or fillers if the ball does not seat firmly against the powder.

There was some information asking about black powder burning versus exploding. Black powder does have an extremely fast burn rate. And this is why it is so important to avoid any air gap and run with a compressed load. What happens in a correctly loaded chamber is that the powder will burn progressively from the point of ignition through the powder to the other end of the packing. Or at least until the bullet starts to move. Even then the pressure will tend to keep the powder packed to some extent and that means it burns through the powder instead of all the powder being lit and burning at the same time. And that is what can occur in a loosely loaded situation with a significant air gap. The entire powder charge ignites at the same time and that causes a massive pressure spike. So that is why it's so important that a black powder load cannot be loose.

It's a bit different with a dry ball in a long rifle. The few grains of 4f dribbled into the drum and the large volume of air in the barrel chamber simply does not make enough gas volume to cause an issue. The ball in such cases exits the barrel with an almost toy like pop gun sound. And certainly no worse than a party balloon being popped.

I've seem myself just how accurate these guns CAN be. And they are as good as my modern Smith and Wesson revolvers. But the question is can YOU be that good? I'd suggest that until you get through the basics that you will find that there is little or no accuracy difference between the Czech and German powders. Also if they are proper black powder then "clean" is a relative description. With either the gun will still be covered in soot by the end of the day and will require the sort of cleaning that was described early on.

It all sounds like it's coming together. I'm looking forward to reading your impressions on what it's like to load and shoot your new historical decoration...