Battle of The Carbines : M-1 or High-Point ?

The feel of a gun--its weight and balance, pointability, control layout--counts for a lot with me. The trim little M1 Carbine is one of the true classics in that department.

On a more purely functional evaluation, the Hi Point is a heck of a good gun if you have magazines that work. For close defense, at least, one might even argue that some or other of the calibers it comes in are better than .30 Carbine.

Gun Master said:

I see four collectors have expressed their opinions. Agreed. The M-1 is the collectible.

What about affordability, home defense, size of hole produced, power of the round(s), variety of caliber / mm and its longevity , accuracy, currently manufactured and availability, etc......

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The ATI stock looks sooooo much better, but IIRC they are discontinued now?

I guess either would do fine for home defense, though over penetration of walls and such would be a bigger concern with the M1. The 10 round mag for the High Point would steer me to a pistol though......yes I know they have a longer one but it is ridiculously awkward.

My M1s are both in good working order with fresh springs and properly seated recoil plates etc. Accuracy and reliability (with GI mags) is not a concern with them. I wouldn't use one for self defense until I had gone through it and shot it first, though.

Soooooo, new High Point vs a reconditioned, tested, GI M1 with GI mags and fresh hollowpoints- I'd go with the M1.

High point vs a beat up worn M1 with no provenance, ball ammo, and cheap mags- I'd take the High Point.......but I'd rather have a high cap handgun or one of the other pistol caliber carbines.

Still, if all ya got is $250 and you want a PCC to stuff in the closet, go for it.

Gun Cost :
Yeah, cost affects the issue. There's no denying that. If you don't have the money to buy something then you simply don't have it.

The High Point 9mm carbine is less expensive, so it wins that part of the discussion.

For most of us though that isn't the case. Given how many AR's or S&W Stainless revolver collections some of us have we can afford to buy an M1 Carbine if we want one.

Foot Pounds :
In terms of Ft-Lbs the .30 carbine wins that part of the discussion. A home owner defending their home with an M1 carbine will down an attacker quicker that with a 9mm carbine.

Jim Carrillo recognized that M1 Carbines loaded up with soft points worked great in gun fights.

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• .30 Carbine 110 Grain FTX Critical Defense by Hornady

Velocity Muzzle: 2000 ft per second / 977 Ft lbs of Energy

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• 9mm +P 124 Grain XTP by Hornady

Velocity Muzzle: 1175 ft per second / 380 Ft lbs of Energy

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Ammunition Availability :

In terms of ammunition availability there's no question that the 9mm wins. It's ammunition is literally everywhere. Ammunition for the .30 carbine was really only made for the M1 Carbine, that Ruger single-action revolver (think it's a Blackhawk) and that AMT semi-auto pistol that were really only manufactured because of the M1 Carbines popularity.

The question however was which one would you rather have. To me that depends on that gun's intended use.

For home defense I'd rather have an M1 Carbine. It's reliability and the Ft- Lbs give it a significant advantage.

For a plinker I'd rather have the High Point 9mm just because of ammunition availability and cost.

I've never handled a hi point carbine.....but it'd have to be pretty dang spectacular to get me to set the M1 down for it.

Mom loves her M-1 Carbine !

Now if you were comparing a Chiappa 9mm M1 Carbine replica this would be more apples to apples with the Hipoint. Both come in 9mm and use pistol mags. I don't have, nor have I handled, a Chiappa, so I can't say whether they are worth their cost.

The reviews I have seen have been poor to ok on the Chiappas due to spotty reliability with some ammo. The reviews have been very favorable to the Hipoints, citing both reliability and cost as very good.

I will admit that (to me) all Hipoints are really unattractive, but they do seem to work when their trigger is pulled... I say they're sorta like a Glock's fatter, homlier, and less refined cousin. She's fun to hang out with, but no one glances twice when she steps out onto the range.

I have a M1 carbine with a long personal history. For a lot of reasons I am attached to it. Its a 1943 IBM manufacture carbine I bought with part of the proceeds of a programming project. I often take it to the mountain for both target practice and protection. I shoot it in the military matches at the gun club.

A friend at the club had a HiPoint with Aimpoint sight and let me shoot it at 100 meters. It was ugly as sin, but it digested anything labelled 9mm Luger or 9x19mm NATO. It hit for me at 100m. I would feel well-armed with a HiPoint carbine. I keep fighting the temptation to buy one in .40S&W or .45ACP since I have pistols in those calibers

I'd take the M1 over the HiPoint, assuming non-fmj rounds. I have one that has been completely reliable, and you have 15 or 30 rounds that have a much higher velocity, momentum and energy. I've put an optics hand guard rail with a red dot on it. Also, it is light and ergonomic.

I don’t have either.

As much as I like the M1, I just can’t justify the expense.

I don’t see me getting a Hi Point. Not a bad shooter.

Guess I’m just married to the AR platform.

Gun Master wrote:
M-1 Carbine or High-Point carbine ?

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Why would I be making this choice?

For what purpose?

Am I spending my own money or someone else's?

MedWheeler said:

One of these..?

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...les/Chiappa/CHIAPPA+FIREARMS+M1-9+CARBINE+9MM

(I know; you asked for no others. My thoughts are in my previous post.)

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Yeah, I assumed the OP meant that "M1 Carbine" considering he was comparing against the 9mm Hi-Point. It's a direct comparison in ammo, and much closer in price. Comparing against the original M1 Carbine is obviously apples and oranges, considering the historicity of surplus/CMP M1 Carbines.

I'd pick whichever one runs reliably. I love my CMP carbines but would choose something else for defense. I can't get them to run reliably. New springs, new mags, GI mags, multiple ammo.

1KPerDay said:

I'd pick whichever one runs reliably. I love my CMP carbines but would choose something else for defense. I can't get them to run reliably. New springs, new mags, GI mags, multiple ammo.

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Top 2 things to check- 1)chipped/cracked extractor, ball and spring
2) Worn/binding piston, loose piston nut

I'd take the M1 carbine hands down, but you're talking about a gun that costs 4-5 times as much as a Hi Point. The two aren't comparable - they're both PCCs, but that's it.

On a budget the hi point wins. But for defense the WAR BABY (M1) wins out big.

I have an M1 and a 9mm and 45 ACP Hi Point. My assessment of the factors involved are:

Reliability- my M1 is pretty reliable however I've never had any kind of malfunction with my Hi Points. The 45 is only about a year old but I've had the 9mm for over 10 years and a few thousand rounds through it with no malfunctions. The Hi Points work well with anything from soft lead bullet loads to full power loads.

Maintenance- I never shoot any gun to the point it's so dirty it will fail. Maybe a few hundred rounds to a throughout cleaning. However in 10 years I've only completely cleaned (talking a field strip here I don't take guns completely apart about 3 times. The manual that came with the 45 said to field strip and clean every 3000 rounds. The Hi Points get the bore punched, big chunks wiped off, and some lube squirted into the action. They require only AK maintenance to keep running.

Accuracy- my 9mm Hi Point shoots about 3-5 inch groups at 100 yd. This is realistically about what you can expect from most M1 carbines. The 45 shoots 6-8. Not as good but will do. All of them shoot better than most can shoot a handgun at that range.

Power- 9mm only picks up 100-150 fps in the carbine length barrel. Factory 230 fmj is about 1000 fps. The M1 has more ft/lbs of energy but there is something else to consider. Once you've put an entry and exit hole in your target all that extra power does nothing for you. The M1 would be the winner here if you had to penetrate a barrier.

Someone mentioned the 300 Blackout in subsonic. The 45 ACP in a carbine is only slightly behind in the energy department and makes a 45 instead of a 30 cal hole.

My only concern with the Hi Point design is if the rear sight would be rugged enough for combat. I'm talking military combat here. You have to realize the Hi Point wasn't designed as a combat carbine. That rear sight issue could be fixed for a few dollars.

Well what would I choose? I would be okay with any of the 3 in a SD situation. I would probably favor the better accuracy of the 9mm Hi Point or 30 Carbine. Ammo prices and availability favor the 9mm Hi Point.

Just on ballistic advantage alone I would go for the M1. I would use Underwood Ammo extreme cavitation in it and it would be quite effective. If I was going for the cheapest gun to shoot then it would be a 9mm Hi Point.

I have owned a couple of M1's. none have been very accurate at any distance (say 100 yards). Lucky to hit a pie plate with one. With a Hipoint 9 I can hiit pop cans consistantly. Also cheaper to shoot.

Never handled a High Point BUT my Department Issued patrol vehicle weapon in the early 80's was a WWII era M-1 Carbine with 2 15 round magazines in the buttstock canvas double pouch.
My dad served in WWII and Korea with the M1 Carbine and always wished he had one in the house.
The M1 Carbine wasn't perfect (magazine lips were delicate, FTE were High enough to be worrisome) but I still liked it.
If my two gun carry was a 1911 and an M1 Carbine I wouldn't have a problem.
I think a High Point Carbine with a High Point Pistol in similar calibers would be fine and bought together would probably be half the price of a good M1.
As 444 mentioned, the M1 is worshipped on forums but it really was never really great at much, I think if it was built with something more powerful than the .30 carbine then it would have been much better. Still. I liked it.

Factory 110 grain .30 Carbine has more velocity and energy at 300 yards than a 9mm has at 100. And that's assuming the High Point can hit anything at 100.
"...half an hour with a dermal..." With a what? Dremel? Rotary tools are not required to keep any firearm working. A regular bath is though. 30 round Carbine mags might require opening the lips a tick with needled nosed pliers, but no rotary tools.

M-1 Carbine would be my choice, but it should be remembered that M-1 Carbine ammo, even the cheaper Aguila stuff is rather expensive. I have owned both and there is nothing wrong with the HiPoint.

Anyone had any luck with the Tula Steel case .30 Carbine ammo for plinking and practice? I note that the Tula .30 carbine is about as cheap as the steel cased 9x19mm out there. Admittedly the cheapest reloadable brass cased . 30 carbine ammo out there is about 70 percent more expensive than the cheapest reloadable 9x19mm.......but if you are reloading that one time expense for 5 or 6 (or more) reloads starts to not look that big.

In my half century plus gone of shooting M-1 Carbines I have seen only one that would only do pie plates at 100 yards and it was not even the worse rattle trap rusted out GI I ever saw but a Universal with the plastic bar on the side to protect the scope mounting holes. Now there was a piece of junk. I would go so far as to say I have never had, fired or seen a GI, even the rattiest that would not do a desert plate at 100 yards.....or about as good as decent pistol shots (not the best) can do with a purpose made hunting pistol with a scope unsupported.

If I was just starting out or working at a low paying job or not married well (had to toss that in) yes I would go with the rifle it only took me a third or quarter of the time to save up for and settle for a Hi Point now and restart saving for a Carbine (whether M-1 or AR) in the future and prepare myself for multiple heart breaking moments when that saved cash might be needed for new tires or a plumber.

But the question seemed to me to be which I would rather have and which would be "better". If a truck was driving down the street and people in back were handing out either a Hi Point in any caliber or a GI M-1 carbine and ammo for either while announcing the 43rd Mongol Horde was ten minutes behind, and the roads out all closed, I would ask for a M-1 Carbine.

-kBob

Mosin Bubba wrote:
...they're both PCCs, but that's it.

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I would argue that the M1 Carbine was actually the first intermediate cartridge.