Do You Consider An M-1 Carbine Adequete For HD

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Nobody questions the 357 magnums 500-700 foot pounds of energy, but the M1 carbines 1,000 foot pounds requires the advice of internet commandos?

That is because the .357 Magnum is a handgun. It is lighter and easier to carry and conceal than the M1 Carbine. That makes the .357 Magnum a relatively power pistol, as compared to the M1 Carbine, which is a relatively un-powerful rifle, albeit a light one. So it is not that people doubt the .30 Carbine's power as is, esp at close range, just that most of us feel that if we're going to pack a rifle, it should be more powerful than the .30 Carbine.
 
Nice lightweight and easy to shoot. I even have an Enforcer model for riding in vehicles. My one suggestion is to also pic up a revolver that shoots the .30carbine . This way you will be able to use some of your bulk ammo either way. Any gun will do if you will do.
 
What pistols shoot 30 carbine?

Taurus Raging 30
Ruger Blackhawk

IMG_1814sm.jpg

Here is an Enforcer M1 Carbine and my Taurus Raging 30. My Ruger Blackhawk is in a different safe.
 
My USAF issued M2 carbine with a 30 round banana mag was sufficient for them N.Koreans but then again they were small in stature:) I would give anything to have one of them again. The Air Force had tens of thousands of them, where have they all gone.
 
Bear in mind that, in choosing an M1 carbine, there are differences between the military version and the clones.

For example, the military has a detent in the charging handle that allows you to lock open the action. The Universal doesn't have the detent, so you cant lock the action open for inspection. I find it annoying...
 
Seems that Audie Murphy, MOH, found it worked just fine against the Wermacht, so feel comfortable in your designated HD weapon.

Read Audie Murphy's autobiography, "To Hell and Back". Amazing low key writing about his life on the battlefield

Quoted For Truth. Audie claimed that the M-1 Carbine allowed for the fastest follow-up shots on moving targets. (He preferred the full-auto version, though.)

The .30 Carbine cartridge is ballistically equivalent to .357 Magnum (or something more like an overpowered 9mm Para, really), and how many people recommed a .357 wheel for HD?

I would think one would make an excellent "second" gun for GP.
 
A fine choice for most HD applications. Since you're talking about SHTF scenarios though--consider adding a Garand to your stable also.

No debate even from me; the Carbine is faster to handle by a factor of ten or better over a larger rifle--and just as relaible.

But no matter how 'hot' .30 carbine won't punch through body armor like .06---and these days you really have to anticipate that a well-eqipped bad guy might be wearing a vest.
 
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Do You Consider An M-1 Carbine Adequate For HD

I assume if the military figured it was good enough for SD with FMJ ammo, it would be adequate for civilian HD with SPs/HPs .

My father was a radio operator/artillery spotter in the Marines during WWII. He always told me the M1 carbine was developed to replace the 1911 as a lightweight/compact backup for specialists like him that had other things to carry.....and claimed it's accuracy and stopping power were similar. He always told me this was the reason it wasn't issued to the general troops. Same for ammo carriers backing up Machine Gunners and other support types. He was issued a carbine before all three of his beach landings(Iwo, Tinian, Saipan). Even with 90 pounds of radio equipment on his back, he dropped the carbine and picked up a Garrand from the first downed comrade that didn't need it anymore.
 
I have a big coffee table book on Medal of Honor recipients and what many of them achieved with those carbines tells me they are very effective at stopping a threat.

Before someone notes the persons involved were particularly skilled, if asked I suspect many would state they were just normal people facing extraordinairy circumstances. No disrespect meant, just saying sometimes the results were largely a matter of that person's will to live and protect his buddies, just like we all hope we would respond to protect ourselves and our families. Whether we act with honor like they did is up to us.


gp911
 
Only reason it MIGHT not be good for HD is the length of the rifle in confined spaces, swinging it around and all that.

The .30 carbine is more than adequate, hell - it might even be TOO strong.

I'd use a pistol, like a 1911... come to think of it, I do.

If what you've got is a .30 carbine, then I'd say you have what you need to defend your castle.
 
I wouldn't have any problems using one for HD and I wouldn't feel like I was underarmed either.

Lots of people like to dog on the M1 Carbine for being underpowered, what's kind of funny is that many of these same people like 9mm and .223 carbines which have had all the same things said about them. The truth is it's not exactly all that underpowered, like many have already said it's kind of like a semi-auto .357 Mag. For the most part though there's just one story that keeps popping up over and over again that tries to say that the .30 Carbine is inadequate: It's supposed inability to stop a North Korean or ChiCom soldiers during the Korean War due to their frozen clothing. Here's a link that puts an end to the theory that the thick winter clothing of North Koreans and Chinese Communists during the Korean War and was able to stop a .30 carbine bullet.

I heard that story ALOT when I was growing up and it seems to be the main well from which many of the rumors and stories draw water regarding the supposedly poor stopping power of the .30 Carbine and which originated during WWII and the Korean War. In the tests it penetrated just fine and continued to keep on going into seven water jugs (42 inches).

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot36.htm

The Box O' Truth #36 - Frozen Clothing And The Box O' Truth - Page 1

I have had a number of people send me notes asking if I would test a rumor that they heard about the Korean War. It seems that it was rumored that the North Korean Commies wore thick clothing and that in the freezing rain, the outside, which was wet, froze. It was then said that the .30 Carbine would not penetrate this frozen clothing, but would bounce off like an over-cooked string bean hitting an anvil. (Okay, I just threw in that part about the string bean and the anvil).

Well, I don't have any authentic North Korean Army clothing from that time period, but I do have some cotton terry cloth towels. So, I did the following.

First, I folded the towel three times, making it 8 layers thick. Is this the same thickness as the clothing worn by the Commies? I don't know, but it looked like a good winter thickness to me. I then wet it down really well and wrung out some of the water. I left it pretty soaked so that it would freeze well. I live in Southeast Texas, and we don't see a lot of freezing weather here, but I do have a freezer.

So, I laid it on a tray and put it in the freezer for about a week and froze it good and solid. I took it out of the freezer and placed it in a cooler to transport it to the range without it thawing out. We then went to the range and set it up in front of the Waterbox O' Truth. I used some clamps to hold it in front of the gallons of water.

The frozen material was a little over one inch thick. The frozen material was a little over one inch thick. We will get back about 45 yards and shoot it with the .30 carbine and standard military Ball ammo. As we placed the frozen towel on the Waterbox, I told Tman, "This stuff is a lot thicker and tougher than I expected it to be. Maybe it will actually slow down a .30 carbine." It was as stiff as a board. Well, only one way to find out.

First, I shot a paper target to be sure I had the point of aim correct. It put two rounds into almost the same hole. I know when to quit. I then fired a round of standard .30 Carbine Ball into the frozen towel. We went down range and were amazed that not only had it easily gone through the frozen material, but had penetrated 7 gallons of water.

That is approximately 42 inches of water.

That means about 21 inches of ballistic gelatin or human flesh.

Since 12 inches is considered to be the minimum required penetration to reach vital organs, this round penetrated almost twice as far as needed. Well, maybe they meant it was the old .45 ACP that couldn't penetrate the frozen clothes. So, a good excuse to try out the newly refinished Sistema .45 ACP. I shot from about 15 feet.

How do you like the size of that entrance hole? Looks like the .45 makes a good ice pick. We were amazed that the .45 ACP also penetrated 7 gallons of water. Both the .30 Carbine bullet and the .45 ACP bullet were good old Ball ammo and the fired bullets could have almost been loaded into a cartridge and shot again.

Lessons learned:
1. If anyone shot at a North Korean Commie and he didn't go down, it was because they missed him. Because frozen clothing sure won't slow down a .30 Carbine.

2. The old warhorse, the .45 ACP Ball, isn't exactly "weak" in the penetration category either.

3. I don't know how this rumor got started, but it looks like it was completely false.

4. The .30 Carbine, as we have noted before, is highly underrated in many categories.

5. Shooting stuff is fun.

Just so long as you use decent reliable ammo that will expand in tissue it'll be fine.

For instance, Wolf ammo might be fine for plinking, but because there are occasionally failures to fire then I wouldn't personally trust it to not malfunction when I really needed it to work. Not to mention the fact that it's ball ammo which isn't going to be quite as good as SP's or JHP's (it'll certainly work though if you can actually hit your target/if you can't hit them, just blame the frozen clothing of guys who're trying to break into your house).

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu19.htm
 
Only reason it MIGHT not be good for HD is the length of the rifle in confined spaces, swinging it around and all that

Its shorter than an ar and most sks/ak things I have seen and folks still scream that those are the "best" rifle for hd. in home defense what is the longest shot you are going to take? if it were in my yard from corner of the lot to corner of the lot might be 40 yards 50 max. I feel that it will be fine.
 
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