Do You Consider An M-1 Carbine Adequete For HD

[mnw42]

I keep my M1 loaded with Cor-Bon DPXs and two more magazines on the stock - it is my go-to gun. It is light, handy, and doesn't scare people as much as some guns. It is also not as loud or have as much muzzle flash as many similarly carbines. What is there not to like?

It certainly gets the job done on the marauding melons, cantaloupe, and water jugs that sometimes wonder on to the range.

I don't have an appropriate shotgun for the role; it is my M1 or my Winchester.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Yup.

 

[USSR]

Considering that the .30 Carbine is essentially a high velocity, small caliber pistol round, when handloading for it, is it loaded with typical pistol powders?

Don't know about "typical" pistol powder, but it is loaded with the same powders (2400, H110, W296, IMR4227, etc.) that you would use with a .357 Magnum or .44 Magnum.

The notion I was getting around to was a heavier than normal bullet - which necessarily would have to be seated deeper in the case for OAL considerations - and a powder charge of a relatively small volume of very fast pistol powder, faster than what is typically used in .30 Carbine.

What do you think?

Since you are going to a heavier bullet, you would have to use a slower powder than you are using for the normal 110 grain bullet. Use of a fast pistol powder will raise pressure greatly and give insufficient velocity. Slower powders require a greater charge weight than fast powders to attain velocity, and remember, you are restricting your case capacity by seating the heavier bullet deep into the case. Essentially, the .30 Carbine cartridge is severely restricted by the M1 Carbine platform for which it was developed.

Don

 

[MTMilitiaman]

With an M1 Garand or my M1A, absolutely. With a Carbine, perhaps, but not as readily.

The point of packing a rifle IMO is range and power. The Carbine provides advantages in these departments over shotguns and handguns, and is a better choice than either because of it. But if I am accepting that, no matter how scarce or unlikely it may be, there is a chance of the SHTF in my neighborhood and me needing a long arm to hold down the fort, then I am not willing to discard the possibility that I might be facing opponents with body armor or hiding behind barriers or engaging me from ranges that the Carbine's glorified pistol round just wasn't meant to take.

And while the Carbine is lighter than most rifles, it is also heavier than most pistols, and doesn't provide a whole lot more power than some of them. It has greater capacity, accuracy, and range than most handguns, but again, not as much as most other rifles. If I can get the same advantages in capacity and accuracy, add a couple pounds, and greatly increase range as well as power at all ranges, that is an acceptable sacrifice for me.

My M1A weighs almost twice as much as an M1 Carbine, but for most even remotely conceivable scenarios, I would take it over the Carbine in a heartbeat.

So short answer--yes and no--better than a pistol or shotgun, not as good as a real rifle.

 

[SSN Vet]

yes!

 

[Gunsby_Blazen]

I would say it would be alright, yeah. But, i am more inclined to use a shotgun.
But sure, the M1 carbine would be fine, don't see any reason why it wouldn't be. I have been thinking about getting one myself.

Are you gonna get a surplus or one from Kahr/Auto Ordinance??

 

[s2brutus]

Since you are going to a heavier bullet, you would have to use a slower powder than you are using for the normal 110 grain bullet. Use of a fast pistol powder will raise pressure greatly and give insufficient velocity. Slower powders require a greater charge weight than fast powders to attain velocity, and remember, you are restricting your case capacity by seating the heavier bullet deep into the case. Essentially, the .30 Carbine cartridge is severely restricted by the M1 Carbine platform for which it was developed.

Thanks, Don.

Just doin' a little navel-gazing.

However, I did find a 125 gr. flatnose SP at Midway that looks interesting. Almost 14% heavier than the stock 110 gr. pill, but still not TOO heavy, probably.

*IF* it'll feed......

 

[kBob]

SOme years back there was a load floating about that launched a 150 grain RNJSP meant for a 30-30 at around 950. The old alberts swaged155 grain LSWC Shutzen-Plinker came with load data that was in the same velocity range. I shot a friends 150 RNJSP loads from his and my carbine. It cycled,no idea how long that might have worked before problems appeared. No idea what the terminal ballistics were like.

-Bob Hollingsworth

 

[missouri dave]

While I kinda like the shotgun for homedefense I certainly wouldn't feel undergunned with a m1 carbine. In fact, short of all out war, something I doubt most of us will ever fight, one set up like the one in the Markowitz picture might just be the thinking man's shtf carbine.

 

[3 gun]

Adequate? Heck yes! Good carbine made even better with modern ammo. Stay away from ball ammo and it's a fine HD/SD tool at ranges out to around 150'ish yards. Wouldn't be my first choice in an urban area or the desert but just about anywhere in between you're in good shape.

 

[oneshooter]

Loving Wife has a carbine, loaded with Win. 110gr JHP. 15 in the mag and 30 more on the stock! Used it last year to kill a couple of feral dogs.

I believe that it is more than capable of performing home defence duties, as long as it will RELIABLE feed SP and/or HP ammo.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[Doug S]

I recently bought (and have been watching), a 10 DVD set entitled "The History Channel Ultimate Collections World War II". Consists of a bunch of old black and white documentaries (which I've loved watching ever since I was a kid). After watching the first 3 disks, I think it's safe to say, that A LOT of Marines in the Pacific, found the M1 Carbine to be perfectly suitable personal firearm. From watching some of the videos, they looked to put the Carbine to some pretty good use against the Japs.

Mine is reliable, and based on it's size and handling characteristics, I wouldn't hesitate to use it in a defensive situation.

 

[Treo]

I saw a couple of the AO/Khar reproductions at the gunshow a week or two back they piqued my interest. Then I got to handle one at my local gun shop, it was one of those moments where it just feels right.

Like Sgt. Provo says "It sings"

 

[jackdanson]

it was one of those moments where it just feels right.

Yeah, I've never shot one, but it does feel great in the hands. I'd buy one if I had the cash laying around.

I think it would be perfectly adequate for the said HD purpose, I'd still pick my AR over the m1 though. Longer range, more rounds, and more oomph; only about a pound more.

 

[Ignition Override]

Pardon the initial sidetrack:

How much more powerful is the lowest-priced Wolf 7.62x39 from an SKS compared to a Remington type of M-1 Carbine round?
The muzzle velocity difference is about 400 fps, but I have no idea about the bullets' lengths, energy levels etc. I'm fairly new to all of this.

Kind of wish that I had kept my repaired carbine; still in the store which bought it from me about two months ago...'Brighton Arms', with a higher-cap mag. in it (901-476-3030). The store also has a range where you can test used guns!
It was brand-new and after two months (though kept clean and never dropped etc) the bolt got stuck on the right side (somehow it came OUT of the slot!)-went back top the factory, then it was fine.
But I became very hard-headed and biased against Kahr , then sold it and lots of ammo at a real loss, having, in the meantime, already fallen for the Mini 14.
That M-1 Carbine. really disappointed me: had always liked the looks/history... it was the first gun I had ever bought, plus the mag spring created mis-feeds about every third shot, from the moment I bought it last October. The factory replaced that crappy spring too.
Could have bought a used Mini 14 and at least 1,000 rds., or an SKS and 2,000 rds., for the price of the brand-new Carbine. Still an entry-level shooter.

Mini 14, 30, (Nor.) SKS and M44, plus ancient Savage .22.
My used Mini 14 has had maybe four mis-feeds out of about 500-600 rounds, having only used Wolf.
Last night was the 14's first misfire, using my first Silver Bear ammo, delivered yesterday. With a reliable larger mag, my Mini 30 would also make a good HD gun.
Wouldn't a so-called SKS 'Paratrooper' with the shortened barrel (for export) be a good prospect?

 

[phdinfunk]

.30 Carbine Handling...

To me, for home defense, the carbine's handling characteristics might win versus my mossy 500. It also depends on if I have the pistol grip stock on the mossy. I'm thinking the 12 gauge with the Knoxx SpecOps is not bad to shoot, but way bad if I have to walk around inside a house.

I've had some private training in firearms tactics, and I believe that smaller is often better if you have to walk around any. I figure if *I* were the bad guy, I'd grab any handle I could get a hold of, bum rush the threat, sidestep guns, bring the fight to him, etc. That all becomes easier and easier to do as the gun becomes more unwieldy. IMHO the .30 carbine wins tons of points because it's just so... ermmmm... wieldy [..

As a side note, I also like the weight/balance/size of the .223 Saigas... though a folding stock would make it even better. I hear the triggers on most AK variants pretty much suck a monkey's scrotum though, so I'll probably pass...

--Jonathan

PS: Wouldn't a heavier bullet in a supressed M1 carbine obviate the .300 whisper?

 

[bigun454]

i adore my m-1 carbine.It is fast and accurate enough for me to extinguish 8 wild hogs on the run at the same time.I actually found my carbine leaned up next to the bath tub,when i asked my wife why she told me that she had heard on the radio their were 3 escaped convicts in the area of my home.She felt that the little .30 would protect her while she had a bath,

 

[cluttonfred]

I think it was Ho Chi Minh that described the M1 Carbine as the perfect insurgent's weapon - light, handy, low-recoil, reliable and accurate enough. Sounds fine for HD in my book and in fact the Israelis still use them as the weapon of choice for their "home guard" (I forget the exact name.)

When you're not limited to ball ammo, the .30 carbine starts looking pretty damn effective for short range. For the poster that said no unit was entirely equipped with M1s, I am sure we could find an example of a group that was, but that's not the point. The M1 Carbine was never meant to replace rifles, it was meant as a step up from a Colt 1911 pistol for people that don't need to carry a rifle, but might need to defend themselves in pinch.

Incidentally, the M1 Carbine is my favorite longarm to shoot, ever, bar none. Pop, pop, pop, low recoil and good peep sights, so easy to put multiple hits on a target quickly. I doubt that any bad guy is going to stick around to argue ballistics.

I wish someobody would come out with an inexpensive modern gun in .30 carbine and spark a little revival for the cartridge. I love the M1 Carbine, but I'd also like an inexpensive modern gun in the same caliber.

 

[USSR]

Configured as a M1A1 and wearing modern optics (EoTech 512), the carbine is a superb HD weapon.

Don

 

[ldp4570]

As far as ballistics go the little "war baby" hits as hard at 100yds as a .357 mag 125HP does at 25yds. It is light, easy to operate, easy to hit with, and with most HD ranges would be a very bad day for the BG! I have lots I could choose from yet my go to is my M1 Carbine. There is also one set up for my wife too.

Remember if you can find USGI surplus 30rnd mags, stick to the 15rnd ones and your little M1 will work just fine.

 

[mr.trooper]

Nobody questions the 357 magnums 500-700 foot pounds of energy, but the M1 carbines 1,000 foot pounds requires the advice of internet commandos?

 

[s2brutus]

trooper,

It also has to do with bullet performance. That .357 at 500-700 pounds is typically using an expanding bullet of some type while the .30 cal. hardball won't give any expansion on a human target. The ill feelings toward the performance of the M-1 Carbine was based on the use of GI hardball. With expanding softpoints, hollowpoints, etc. it's a whole 'nother ball game.

 

[benEzra]

With softpoints or JHP's, definitely yes.

FWIW, the legendary NYPD Stakeout Squad (IIRC, Jim Cirillo's unit) used M1 carbines for years, very successfully AFAIK.

 

[tinygnat219]

Yup. Consider that you have 15 rounds (or more depending on magazine size) of light recoiling, combat proven goodness there in your hands.

The Carbine is quick handling, light, has a decent round for short distances, and has a high reliability rating.

Throw in some Soft Point ammo and it's one of the more effective weapons for inside of a building.

 

[dmftoy1]

adore my m-1 carbine.It is fast and accurate enough for me to extinguish 8 wild hogs on the run at the same time.I actually found my carbine leaned up next to the bath tub,when i asked my wife why she told me that she had heard on the radio their were 3 escaped convicts in the area of my home.She felt that the little .30 would protect her while she had a bath,

Am I the only one who read this post and then immediately was looking for the associated picture?