Evil Empire guns?

NIGHTLORD40K said:

Would you exclude a weapon from your collection because it was used/ manufactured/ designed/ or marked by an oppressive regime? Does the weapons history make it symbolically immoral to own? Are some firearms are so intrinsically linked to evil empires, such as the Luger, that you would avoid owning one because others might think youre glorifying their evil usage?
What do you think?

Click to expand...

No.

No. Weapons are inanimate objects.

drband said:

No. Weapons are inanimate objects.

Click to expand...

This. Unless my purchasing the weapon directly supported (such as fund) the "evil empire",than I would not purchase it.

"Symbolically immoral?" Lol! No.

Refusing to own a gun because it was used by a nation or regime we now consider "evil" makes about as much sense as refusing to read a book that discusses that nation. Hard to study and understand history if we do that.

The gun didn't cause or enact any of the unjust deeds committed by the leaders and soldiers of that empire.


If you can't own a Luger because the Nazis used them then you can't own an M14 or M16 because of Mai Lai or a Garand because of Kent State. You can't own a "trapdoor" Springfield or an 1896 Krag-Jorgensen because of the atrocities we committed in the Philippines. Or at Wounded Knee.

Hopefully we're more enlightened than to place blame and guilt upon a tool.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

... What do you think?

Click to expand...

I believe that thinking that way is just Silly ...

Harasho, let me help. One must always find positive in very negative narrative. First us and Great Britain provided money for Dolfie to arm Germany then we destroyed them making lots of money and becoming world dominating superpower. I don't know if you realize, but when Luftwaffe was leveling English cities and infrastructure the fuel in their tanks came from the Soviet Union our ally later in the war. Buy Nazi marked guns with confidence.

NO! not using such gun because it was made/used by X is the same as blaming a shooting on the gun instead of the shooter.

Only if the purchase of said gun would support the regime.

Something like a Nazi stamped Hi Power? Nah, I'd love to own one.

History, even bad history, is to be respected. Else we never learn.

JR24 said:

Only if the purchase of said gun would support the regime. ...

Click to expand...

<nodding> I can recall choosing to not purchase Cheetah(?)-brand 7,62x39 ammunition after reading that it would put money in the coffers of Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe.

I would rather give them a good home and teach them to play nice.

Just because Ford's and Chevy's have killed more people than all the Colts ever made doesn't keep me from owning all of them. They have also done some good and many are/were never used for anything except fun.

I agree, silly.

No.
I wouldn't actively seek it out, usually, and if it came down to one with or one without the marks, I'd probably opt for the one without. I personally would probably pass the former up if I wasn't hurting for a particular model--I tend to want shooters more than the collector value, anyway.
But it's only an object, and being able to buy one if the opportunity comes up unexpected? That means we won.

Weapons may be inanimate objects, but my decision to purchase one versus another bears testimony to my beliefs and through processes.

I wouldn't exclude a gun from an "evil empire," but OTOH I wouldn't buy one unless I had some interest in it. At one point I was interested in a Walther P-38, but wasn't able to find one, and eventually my interest waned.
About the closest thing to one I have now is a WASR-10, a type of Kalashnikov knock-off which is a Ak-47 like gun. Yes not a true Kalashnikov, just looks like one.

I own a bunch of Soviet guns. I like to think of them as trophies from our victory in the Cold War. I don't own them out of any affinity for Communism, but simply because they're interesting firearms. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Only own one if it was a captured war souvenir from a relative. That celebrates the destruction of evil. I had a Japanese souvenir of such vintage.

The more evil the better.
I have weapons from over twenty different countries that cover WWI through the Cold War. Other then the French weapons, the rest get along with each other, even the German and Russians. The French weapons don't like to be picked on. The Swiss seem to be neutral, I've never cough them picking on any of the other weapons, not even the Chinese or Japanese.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

Credit to 25-2 for getting me to think about this seriously. Thanks bro.

For me, I do think twice about picking up a Nazi stamped gun (or blade). People DO look at you sideways when they see the marks.
But as most Axis small arms designs predated the regimes which misused them, I don't hold it against the design itself. Ive owned many Mauser's and a Luger, but not one with Nazi proofs. Ive also never had a hammer and sickle marked Mosin. My Arisaka DID have a mum, but it was defaced- I figure that's a symbolic finger at Hirohito in itself.
Something to think about.

Click to expand...

When I lived in Germany in the early 70's, my second landlady issued my rent receipts on receipts left over from the Nazi regime, denominated in Reichmark. She was Swiss and exceptionally frugal, for example instead of scotch tape she would buy her postage stamps in sheets of 100 and use the edges.

And when I went back to visit around 1980, the curtains on the trains in East Germany (I went to the Leipzig book fair) were from the Nazi regime.

Yes and no. First of all, there is the problem of which "evil empire"? Nazi Germany? Imperial Germany? Fascist Italy? Imperial Japan? Soviet Union? Modern Russia? British Empire? Red China? well ... that covers a whole lot of world history, and world firearms.

Collecting does not necessarily mean condoning the "empire" behind the weapon. If it did, then I would have no AKs, SKSs, Mausers, Mosins, Arisakas ... or pretty much anything except my Garand and Springfield.

On the other hand, I will reject a firearm on more narrow criteria. For example, about 20 years ago, I acquired a kar98k rifle for about $250 (vet bring back). It was absolutely crusted in junk. I cleaned it up and there were not just waffenampt markings, but two death's head runes. SS rifle. The feeling was visceral when I saw that - like a punch in the gut. Yeah, it was a hell of a find for what I paid, but I quickly found a serious collector to take it off my hands. I just didn't want it in my house. OK, I sold it off for 10x for what I paid for it, but I'd like to think that I invested the proceeds in good things.

But the point of this little anecdote is that collecting can mean different things to different people. And while in general firearms are reflections of history, some very specific firearms have a historical context that I'd prefer not to have in my collection - in a museum, fine ... or someone else's collection, fine. Just not mine. Just my own preference.

I don't mind guns with a tainted history. If you do, good, maybe I can get a better deal. My favorite semi auto pistol is a bhp that has shot a person. My favorite bolt is a k98 with Nazi proofs on it. Both excellent guns imo. I just look at them as tools. Like someone else said "inanimate object".

GunnyUSMC said:

The more evil the better.
The Swiss seem to be neutral,

Click to expand...

Perhaps not neutral, but they would shoot down any military aircraft that crossed into their airspace regardless of identity or where it came from.

Sergei Mosin said:

I own a bunch of Soviet guns. I like to think of them as trophies from our victory in the Cold War. I don't own them out of any affinity for Communism, but simply because they're interesting firearms. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Click to expand...

Soviet stuff doesn't seem to bother or offend anyone. If you were to wear NKVD officer at Holloween everyone would smile, but if you were to put on black SS officer uniform everyone would show disgust. Apparently some victims are worth a whole lot than others.

I have no problems owning them, but I am in the camp that doesn't want to have a rifle with Nazi markings all over it.

For the folks who would not own a Russian-made weapon, where does the Finn M39 stand? Russian made, captured by Finns and rebuilt to fight Russians?

Yes they are evil and need to be disposed of. If you have any that need "Disposing" of, please PM me and I will give you my FFLs info so you can send them to me for "Disposal".