300 Blackout, Should I add one to my collection?

ColoradoMinuteMan said:

The reality is that 300 AAC offers nothing additional for punching paper. 300 ACC is has many practical uses from subsonic lethality to high energy impact at ranges up to 200 yards. As for target shooting, unfortunately all you'll be getting are holes that are 140% the size of 5.56 at 150%-200% the cost.

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Other than punching paper, which all rounds are usually good at, 300BLK offers so many advantages and potential uses.

The OP said he reloads so this will be a good round for that. You will not spend the 150-200% extra cost.

Hunting is another advantage.

Suppressed/SBR use is another.

And then finally, 300AAC is one of the best calibers to use in the AR platform since it uses everything except a different barrel. Its also much more reliable (as compared to x39) in the AR.

I got my 300bk at a friends estate sale at a good price, its a aac Remington model 7 with a cheek riser and 16" threaded barrel with a 2x7 Nikon. its not a tack driver, but with the load I use(1-1.5") at 100yards, loaded win 296-130grbullet at 2100- 2200fps. I bought 500 reformed .223 cases on the internet for 75.00, they were formed-deprimed-sized-cleaned. as I didn,t have 300bk dies so I used a 7.62-39 Russian seat die to seat the bullets with out any problems and they loaded-chambered and shoot with no problems at all. I have killed several doe with it, double lung complete pass thru shots at under 100 yards. its not for large animals, but for a light woods walking rifle and close (100-125 yards) shots it will do . eastbank.

Now that Ruger has released their American Ranch in 7.62x39 and it accepts Mini-30 mags, I see no reason for anyone to own a .300 BO unless they just have to shoot suppressed. Only reason I could justify that is feral hog control. Otherwise, the 7.62x39 RAR will do anything the .300 BO can do, only better and cheaper.

justice06rr said:

Other than punching paper, which all rounds are usually good at, 300BLK offers so many advantages and potential uses.

The OP said he reloads so this will be a good round for that. You will not spend the 150-200% extra cost.

Hunting is another advantage.

Suppressed/SBR use is another.

And then finally, 300AAC is one of the best calibers to use in the AR platform since it uses everything except a different barrel. Its also much more reliable (as compared to x39) in the AR.

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I guess I'm confused if you're agreeing or disagreeing. I mentioned both of the advantages that you restated. The OP specifically said he only punches paper. Outside of variety the .300 AAC offers no advantage for target shooting. As far as cost goes, comparable .308 projectiles are 150-200% more expensive than .224. Powder is roughly the same, though you use a slight bit less for a .300 AAC depending on the load. Assuming brass and primers are the same, you can easily spend 150-200% more to reload as well as purchasing loaded ammunition. I never said there, weren't any advantages, in fact I called out some of the practical benefits, however, 5.56x45 is arguably a better cartridge for target shooting. If the desire is to simply have variety because variety is fun, then there's nothing wrong with that.

The advantages of the 300BO are sound if they fit one's needs or desires (SBR and Suppressed), although I would rather have a 7.62x39:
1. Uses the same bolt as 5.56
2. Uses the same magazines (pro and con)
3. Efficient cartridge on powder burn on shorter barrels (nearly 95% of the powder is burned within 9" of barrel) making it a really good SBR candidate
4. High BC .308 bullets, which pays dividends when shooting past 150 yards.
5. Given the qualities of the efficiency of the cartridge it makes for a quiet suppressor host.

Some cons which seemingly are being remedied are the lack of 200gr + bullets that will expand at subsonic velocities (a subsonic round does little good when it passes right through the intended target without expending any energies in to said target), but this is currently being remedied by manufacturers which will be huge for the 300BO.



Now to speak on the 7.62x39 AR as it gets lauded as being unreliable all the time, and in my experience and that of a few friends and family it is unfounded this day and age.

I had a 8.2" noveske 300BO pistol at one time, it was a fun range toy, but didn't really do anything for me. I sold it and put money into building a 16" 7.62x39 AR and couldn't be happier. $0.18 - 0.20 / round factory ammo that has more energies than 300BO whats not to like. And one can get premium hunting ammo from Hornady, Winchester, and Federal (for $0.60-0.90 / round) which are have brass cases allowing for reloading. And don't pay attention to those who say that the 7.62x39 are unreliable, most of the people saying such nowadays are parroting what was experienced 10 years ago with feed ramps hanging up cartridges due to taper, standard length firing pin, bolt material not holding up on the lugs, frankenmags (magazines that were welded together from an AK mag) and teething pains of figuring out what is needed (a big thanks to all those who put the effort, time and money in the past to figuring it out for the likes of me).

The crucial parts (and none of the following are expensive, save for maybe the bolt) of a 7.62x39 are:
1. Gas port size
2. Quality bolt (LMT, Young's Manufacturing, AIM, AR Performance) think 9310 or better bolt material, thats been MPI'd.
3. Buffer weight to allow for proper dwell time
4. Lengthened/enhanced firing pin
5. Proprietary mags (C-Products or ASC)
6. Feed ramps corrected/widened (not a part but an improvement that was discovered)

This has all been figured out and I've had no stoppages on my AR47 with about 800 rounds through it, and those rounds including (SP, HP, FMJ, Poly Tip, of various makes Wolf, Hornady, Tula, Red Army, and Golden Tiger).

The cost of ammo and performance of the x39 over the BO at ranges 100 yards and closer was a big determining factor in why I sold my 300BO and switched. I haven't got to try mine out suppressed yet, but hope to try that out some day with some loads, but I've heard that there are loads for it that work well.

I know a lot of people compare the 300 to the 7.62x39 and I've owned both. Strictly speaking from a recoil perspective, the 7.62x39 has a noticeable amount more recoil than the 300 Blackout, even when shooting it from a heavier rifle platform. The bolt action 7x62x39 I had surprised the heck out of me with the recoil it had. The 300 BO bolt action I had had very, very little recoil and that was shooting the ultralight Ruger American Ranch version. Seems to me that the 7.62x39 has a good bit more energy than the 300 BO supersonic would.

I just bit, had many spare parts from numerous "upgrading"....Just had to "invest" in a barrel, thread cap and /or a flash hider and a few minor LPK items, Bolt catch spring and plunger as well as bolt catch which I meed to modify for side charger upper.

Ammo is getting cheaper but this quote from earlier in the thread from ColoradoMinuteMan is succint

" As for target shooting, unfortunately all you'll be getting are holes that are 140% the size of 5.56 at 150%-200% the cost."

Timeless.......

Rich Goldsmith said:

I just bit, had many spare parts from numerous "upgrading"....Just had to "invest" in a barrel, thread cap and /or a flash hider and a few minor LPK items, Bolt catch spring and plunger as well as bolt catch which I meed to modify for side charger upper.

Ammo is getting cheaper but this quote from earlier in the thread from ColoradoMinuteMan is succint

" As for target shooting, unfortunately all you'll be getting are holes that are 140% the size of 5.56 at 150%-200% the cost."

Timeless.......

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And if you are shooting your .308 at paper...............................and if you are shooting your .45/70 at paper..............and if you are shooting your .375 H&H at paper............................

So what ?

It's your money, if that is what you enjoy, have at it.
If the size of the hole in paper and the cost of putting the hole in paper are the only factors involved for you, stick to a Daisy Red Rider. The hole is smaller and it's cheaper.

Not to hijack your thread off of the 300 BO, but I just wish I would have researched my decision more on my 300BO before assembling it, as I would have gone the route of 7.62x39.

Here are some list of common rounds (a few premium for each and one economic option) that are similar in bullet weight and their respective velocities, energies and cost:

300 Blackout
1. Corbon MPC 125gr., 2,250 fps, 1,406 ft./lbs., $23.00/20rds.
2. Nosler Match 125gr., 2,250 fps, 1,404 ft./lbs., $30.00/20rds.
3. Remington OTM 125gr., 2,215 fps, 1,360 ft./lbs., $28.00/20rds.
4. PPU HPBT 125gr., 2,198 fps, ??? ft./lbs., $11.00/20rds.

7.62x39
1. Federal Fusion (brass), 123 gr., 2,350 fps, 1,508 ft./lbs., $20.00/20rds.
2. Hornady SST (brass), 123 gr., 2,350 fps, 1,508 ft./lbs., $12.00/20rds.
3. Hornady SST (steel), 123 gr., 2,350 fps, 1,508 ft./lbs., $14.00/20rds.
4. Golden Tiger (steel), 124 gr., 2,367 fps., 1,542 ft./lbs., $4.00/20rds.

The cost and energies don't lie where the value is between the two and that is what I soon realized when I was tired of spending money on 300 BO ammo, as well as components to reload. Now it won't be too long before someone who has collected scrap lead from 1960's to present will come here and tell you that he can load 300BO for $.06/round, and more power to that person, but he/she is being highly disingenuous to those who value their time and are trying to actually weigh the differences.

When I was reloading for the 300 blackout, I had to cut my own 5.56 brass which I had to buy some cheap but effective equipment (HF cutoff saw) which amounted to $30-50 and then I was buying 147gr pulldown .308 bullets for $0.12/bullet (which is the cheapest .308 bullet I could find, unless you're buying coated cast, which the cheapest then is still around $0.10), then powder cost and primer. The cheapest I could get it without factoring in all my time was ~0.15-0.17 / round. That is the reality unless you are going to spend your gas money, time and buy the equipment to go around to all the tire shops picking up scrap lead and melting and forming your own bullets. And my load with the 147gr pulldowns isn't even that great of a load for the 300BO, one is much better off sticking with lighter bullet weights for supers in 300BO.

I hope this helps, as I was in your position and I wish I had someone discuss the differences with me before I spent my money. Now I can load for my 7.62x39 for hunting, subsonics, or targets or have a plethora of cheap ammo to shoot and punch paper with. But this thread wasn't a comparison between the 300 BO and the 7.62x39 so I'll end my discussion on that topic now, unless the OP asks.

I'm sure the OP would be happy at the range with a 300BO, it is a fine cartridge for what it is, I just think there are better options especially when one is concerned with punching paper at 100-200 yards, the 5.56 do that just fine and in my opinion better.

I always think of the 300 BO as a .30 carbine +P that has the advantage of firing heavy bullets suppressed. It does have an advantage if you swap uppers as it uses the .223 bolt making builds of the upper fairly inexpensive. It also allows you to hunt in certain states that have caliber restrictions.

I prefer my Russki SKS firearm for firing the 7.62x39.

I bought 500 reformed cases ready to reload, no extra work needed, only insert a primer and powder and seat a bullet for 75.00. as the .300 bk takes a regular .308 bullet and the 7.62x39 takes a .311 bullet(plenty of cheap .308 light weight bullets) , primers are a wash and I get 2100-2200 fps with 17-18 grs win 296 with a 130gr bullet .if its all about speed and bullet weight, just buy a rem model 7 in .308 and load up or down, from 7.62x25 to just under the 3006. eastbank.

To everyone that wanted more power from a CQB AR15, .300blk is your round.
-Nearly as much power as 7.62x39.
-more power, less range than 5.56
-excels in short barrels, where 5.56 absolutely does not. An 8" barrel is GTG.
-suppresses very well.

If you're just punching paper it's worthless, but as a defensive carbine, it's golden.

I have a 6x47 in a Remington 40x that I like better than a .223 or .300bk, the problem is its a target rifle(very heavy). I have been thinking rebarreling the 300bk in 6x47(.222 mag case) or 6x45(.223 case) or look for a shot out .222-.223 to rebarrel, the 6.5x47-6.5x45 even looks pretty good. eastbank

There is some error in how it was first developed, common to pre internet days: The .300 Whatever was originally developed as a workaround of the rules in early 3 Gun which were prejudiced against 5.56. .30 was mandatory and back then the little poodleshooters weren't highly regarded due to Vietnam. Real Men shot .308 and the matches were dominated by M1A's, Garands, FNFAL's, and a few HK91's. Except for the visionary older coots who saw the M16 had a point - lower recoil and more ammo capacity could be an advantage in competition.

So they ginned up some wildcat .30 in a 5.56 case rounds, and rebarreled some Colts to do it. That was all there was back then. The trend was recorded in the first SOF match at Columbia, MO - an Invitational - which meant the few who brought the .30x5.56 weren't just crazy old loons, they were respected shooters who ranked well in the country. Unfortunately they weren't well treated and tossed off the course. Basically, use a .30 Battle rifle or go home.

As a result some noticed and JD Jones got to tinkering with it in coming out with the .300 Whisper, which was developed for suppressed use. One thing it would do was put more power downrange with shorter barrels, another part of the attraction when you already have to pay $200 to play with NFA items. And it got some press in the day.

What finally launched the effort was an interest in making the M4 perform better. Chopping 6 inches off means 5.56 loses some range and velocity, it wasn't knocking down the enemy Dead Right There in combat, or so some thought. What we were experiencing was some of the same issues that brought on the .45ACP - drugged and highly motivated religious warriors. The Army attempted to bring back the M14 as one answer, which was too little to late as we basically changed tactics and addressed the issues other ways. In that process the SF got some money, and some input from the AMU, came up with the 6.8 SPC, which does increase power downrange 50%. It got SAAMI sponsorship thru Remington but it was a flawed process which had an impact on further marketing. One thing it did do was work very well with SBR's and suppressors, which was it's original intent.

In a parallel movement West Coast shooters were trying to work out a long distance competitive round to shoot from AR's and tweaking the 6mm PPC case for it. One attempt at that used the 6.5 bullet and it was brought to the attention of Alexander Arms, who pretty much completely redesigned it and came out with the 6.5 Grendel. It took records for a short while in that highly competitive atmosphere and was also launched as another alternate cartridge for AR's.

Once these got rolling along the guys at AAC already knew about the .300 Whisper in the suppressed community, and with Remingtons backing as a corporate brother, they "remodeled" the drawings to introduce the .300 Blackout for suppressed use. Being that is was only a barrel change - you didn't need a special bolt or cartridge specific mags, etc., it caught on. It might have done AAC some good in the short run. It did the AR community OK as a hunting round which didn't seem to cost a lot more.

The reality is that ANY alternate round suffers from commercial pricing. Reloading helps but the truth remains, you pay to shoot something that isn't military issue, which is the floor price for ammo when using a military chassis as a firearm. There is no cheap ammo unless you reload it. As for the selection of what round to tinker with as a precision shooter, it's up to the shooter. Any 6.5 G will be more accurate and out range a .300, proven fact with trophies to show for it. A 6.8 will do as a better intermediate battle rifle from a short barrel, it ranges further than .300. Proven fact with guns in the field in the Mid East as official issue. The point is that as you cut the barrel down you benefit from a bigger bullet as it has a larger base diameter and can absorb more energy in the shorter dwell time in the barrel. .300 Whatever? Still an American hobby round - note that when 3 Gun did finally accept the M16, that .300 x 5.56 was not universally embraced. It was left on the back wall of those early pioneers as a fond memory. Matches were shot and won with standard 5.56. Why? Cheaper to shoot to maintain the razor's edge of skill needed to win. No ballistic help at all at 400m, with a lot more drop.

None, however, have proven to be the Bullet That Rules Them All, each has it's particular origins and most optimal use at it's best barrel length. While some tinker with "off label" applications it's a personal matter of interest, a hobby, and it doesn't change the physics. Have fun with whatever suits your interest, but note that nobody wins 3 Gun matches with any of the alternate rounds. 5.56 still dominates, 6.5G is still a long distance accuracy shooters fun gun, hog shooters use 6.8 from 16" barrels with great results, and the general public plays with .300 as a recreational short range gun. You can mix and match as you like, but the downrange results are what the core shooters use each for and are successful with them in their intended use.

A .300BO precision gun? You can do exactly as you please, just don't expect performance it's incapable of delivering. That is usually described in some grandeur terms as if there is some magical quality that can change the immutable laws of physics.

"If you're just punching paper it's worthless, but as a defensive carbine, it's golden"

Unless you hunt, and many of us don't, pretty much all your guns start out as "paper punchers". I like to have plenty of "paper punchers" available just in case. I built my first AR in 5.56 to have a good, solid, usable carbine. Built another lower for sometime in the future. That lasted for about a week of research and discussions. Now I also have a good, solid, usable carbine in .300BLK.
Next!

Walkalong said:

If you want one, then you should. It's a fun caliber to shoot.

I bought parts and assembled an upper. Have only shot supersonic so far.

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Looks very nice,thanks for sharing.

It fills a niche - Small pistol AR-15 (11.5" to 8.5" barrel) with power just below a 30-30. They hit hard and are easy to shoot out to 200yrs w/o holdover. A 125gr super sonic makes a great little deer cartridge.

Handy little truck gun to throw in when you are going out. The small AR pistols can be carried in a tennis racket case with several magazines.

At the range, I have fun shooting steel gongs between 100yrds and 200 yrds. The 300 blackout makes the steel ring and bounce more than the 223. Has more thump!

Using Speer 125gr TNT bulk bullets, reloading cost is not bad using H110 or Alliant 300-MP.

All around, just a fun little cartridge.

It's your money and time. There are posts here by people who have given this a lot more thought than I have. When the round came out I was interested. It seemed to have a lot going for it. Then, I started seeing carbines at the range. While the round wasn't "bad" or anything wrong with it, the mystique went away and I figured my time and money would be better spent elsewhere.

Have fun and be safe.

solman wrote:
300 Blackout, Should I add one to my collection?

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No.

Take the money you would spend on a 300 BO upper and put it in your 401(k). Retirement is going to be here before you know it.

I just ordered a 300 blackout this week. I've had my AR in 3 different 5.56 configurations already and it just doesn't really float my boat. It was a 16" 5.56 pencil barrel, then a 20" 223 wylde varmint barrel, and now a 16" 223 wylde medium barrel each with different forends and optics. Now it will be a 16" medium weight 300 blk. It's nice but I just can't really find the niche for what it would actually be useful for except the zombie apocalypse. I shoot my plates at 200 yards and I can barely tell I've hit them with 50-55 grain varmint bullets. I ordered some 68 and 77 to try but they are nearly $30/100 locally for bullets. I'm thinking I need something with a little more umph to make it interesting and open more uses for hunting. I did some checking in a ballistics calculator the other day and a good 30 cal 125 bullet is very close in trajectory and drift out to 300 from a 16" barrel than a 223 with heavy bullets and more umph when it gets there. I'm excited to try it suppressed. If the 300 blackout doesn't do it for me then I guess I well and truly wasn't meant to enjoy AR's. Can't say I haven't tried lol.

I'm trading for my son's DPMS Sportical, and plan on a .300 BO upper for it; Not sure on a can yet, that's down the line if I do. But as I shoot coyotes under 100 yards, usually about 40 yards. I think it would be a great round for that. Not that .223 doesn't work, it does, but I've seen several videos on here and you tube of what it does to coyotes and pigs, and I'm impressed enough to consider it.

I also strongly considered a 6.8 spc and a 277 wolverine. The price of bullets is about the same. Dies and barrels are expensive for .277 but brass is free to make. They make some subsonic bullets for .277 but they are expensive.

6.8 spc barrels and dies aren't too bad but you also need another bolt and magazines and brass is very expensive and hard to come by. No guarantee's of future availability of 6.8 brass.

300 blackout has the cheapest and most widely available barrels and dies. Brass is free but labor intensive to make. Most effective for subsonic and short barrel use. (I have suppressor paperwork in the works). Bullets cost the same as 6.8 but heavy cast bullets for subsonic use are much much cheaper. It uses less powder and cheaper powders than the other too. 6.8 spc has the best ballistics and powder but all 3 are close enough as to make no difference to me and my 200 yard varmint/medium game intended use.

Enough justifying my decision. I guess we will see in about 3 months if I still have any interest in it. For the money I've spent in this gun I could have had a real nice Garand.

solman said:

I am seeing a lot of people who are shooting the 300 blackout. Just wondering if you are finding it a good accurate round. I don't hunt these days just punch paper at 100 and 200 yds. I reload and have plenty of 223 brass so I would need dies and powder if I take the plunge. I like to fiddle and could build my own upper or just get one ready to go from PSA they have a good deal on a upper.

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I find it a very accurate round and a joy to shoot.

I’d recommend buying the complete upper.

<*(((>< said:

Now to speak on the 7.62x39 AR as it gets lauded as being unreliable all the time, and in my experience and that of a few friends and family it is unfounded this day and age.

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Sadly it sure seems like that if you are new to them, thanks to some magazine manufactures lying about the capacity of their mags or building them so you can stuff more in then it is meant for. On those, those first few rounds will fail to feed properly nearly 100% of the time.