How much are we willing to give up?

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M118LR

M118LR

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I'm a Florida resident, this week has witnessed allot of 2A questions. So far we have been legislated out of our right's to machine guns, and many Hunters can only field shotguns with plugs, those that can still hunt with a rifle are also strictly limited to how many rounds can be chambered, so who really determines what "COMMON SENSE" gun law's are common sense? But if we condescend and allow others to say that everyone owning a firearm must be 21 (folks still fight & die for this country at 17+ years old) and as Hunters have already lost the amount of rounds available to the chamber, should we really fight the current wave of Political B.S. ? Or might our Grandchildren be better off if 30 Round Semiautomatic High Velocity Rifles were regulated to those that have actually used them to defend this country? The best defense against any "Bad Guy" with a firearm is still and shall always be a "Good Guy" with a firearm, but we seem to be having serious failures on the behave of the appointed "Good Guy" with a firearm when it comes to protecting & defending OUR children at thier appointed places of learning.

Forgive me for posting a Welcome Aboard, but perhaps this is a bit more emotional?

So where should we draw the "Line in the sand" not we need to deflect all controls due to the extremes of the far left? Thank You for voicing Y'all's opinions.
 
BigBore44 said:
I thought the line in the sand was pretty clearly drawn in December 1791.
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I don't believe that any of US where there back then, but if that's all the flexibility WE are capable of? WE THE PEOPLE might have let down our fore-fathers? This was supposed to be an evolving experiment, capable of change based on the needs of the Common Man. So if we want to accept the Solutions to the Tyranny of the far past as OUR course of action in the future, how far are Y'all willing to go to desecrate our Grandchildren's Freedoms in order that they once again bear the yolk of oppression?

Is thier future more important to OUR unwillingness to change, than those that come after US?
 
You have bigger problems than the machine gun ban and hunting regulations in Florida. Your Governor is pretty much throwing gun owners out with the bath water.

Start your fight with your keyboard writing to your State Representative and Senator and wallet to 2A groups to fund the fight. You have a big one on your hands.
 
Do you honestly believe that Florigun has a problem with Y'alls long ago given away 2A Right's?

We can quickly elect another Governor if this one actually thinks that folks have forgotten how to punch a chad in the next election.

I've been hunting with my high capacity AR since before this Governor's Election, I'll be hunting with my high capacity AR after the next Governor's Election, if He fails to listen to the vioce of WE THE PEOPLE of the Great State of Florida. NUFF SAID?
 
How much are we willing to give up?

Honestly? Absolutely nothing. Period.

I am not at fault for the actions of a murderer. The 2nd Amendment has not lost any importance because of this person's crime. Criminals don't kill because guns are available, they kill because of some other evil intention. I'm not willing to give up anything. "Common sense" has never existed in the world of gun control, nor has "compromise".

If the left really wants compromise, here's one I'll live with:

1) They get universal background checks.

2) We get the hearing protection act passed without being watered down. We get the machine-gun registry reopened for all of us who weren't old enough to buy these guns in 1986. The $200 tax stamp is removed for NFA items.


If they want to talk about compromise, I'll happily sign on that one. That will never happen though, because this wasn't ever about compromise.
 
Compromise is both sides giving up something. The anti rights socialists have never, ever, ever offered to give anything up, like reopening the National Registry, taking SBR/SBS/suppressors of NFA, National Reciprocity, etc. I do not believe that me giving up less is a compromise, and I have seen nothing but take and take over the years from that side. So when I see someone say I need to be "flexible", naw, sorry, we've bent over and been bent over before, no more.
 
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M118LR said:
Is thier future more important to OUR unwillingness to change, than those that come after US?
Click to expand...

This question is clear as mud.

To be unwilling to change at a time that one is not incorrect is not weakness nor blindness. Losing a thing which might be useful in the future, to console the inconsolable, as they also do nothing for themselves, is not compromise! Giving away my culture and pastimes, as they change nothing about their "side", is called oppression, not compromise.

My future resides for eight hours a day in these buildings. My future is mandated to be there, as I can not afford a private school. If I am forced to have my future in these schools it seems a good compromise that the schools be protecting my future and give my future back to me, alive and in one piece, at the end of the day. It would also be great if they taught them something more than liberalism, like history maybe...



This whole kerfuffle is the result of a lack of responsibility. No one wishes to be held accountable, but they want to hold authority. Well guess who is responsible when something like this happens in Florida?

That's right me! A gun owner in Michigan. Or inanimate objects made of steel.

It is never the actual bad seed. It is never the clown that left the front door unlocked. It is never the FBI, who were called thirty seven times about this human flotsam and jetsam. It is never the administrators that let the thing be berated until it snaps, that are at fault.

I am unwilling to give away any more! How much are they willing to give up?
 
Think that the FBI will get more authority to intrude into your home if your a registered firearm owner?

Me as a commoner, I would think that having an armed officer at the school should have been enough, but it wasn't. I would hope that the FBI would have taken the warnings a bit more serious, but it's easy to see things in hindsight. I believe that it's already against the law to have a firearm in/on a school zone, so laws didn't do much to protect.

This should have been the easiest tragedy to avoid, Laws are already written against it, the FBI knew about it, the School had an armed Officer assigned, every thing was in place. But in the final analysis, it's the "Good Guy" with the gun taking action that is the only actual deterrent. If that doesn't happen, how are schools/churches and all the other NO GUN ZONES going to be defensed?

I understand that We The People have had our fill of getting our 2A rights attacked, and I'm not to keen on giving our supposed protecting agencies more invasive powers within my home, but WE need to improve something to keep the children safe don't WE?
 
When FOUR law officers aka peace officers DO NOT do their jobs there a problem.

I’m willing to raise the age for gun ownership to 21 IF the voting age is also raised. Also make 21 the age to serve in the military. In other words pick an age when someone is an adult and don’t play games where 16 year olds can vote (Maryland) but claim 21 is too young to be an adult.
 
M118LR said:
Think that the FBI will get more authority to intrude into your home if your a registered firearm owner?

Me as a commoner, I would think that having an armed officer at the school should have been enough, but it wasn't. I would hope that the FBI would have taken the warnings a bit more serious, but it's easy to see things in hindsight. I believe that it's already against the law to have a firearm in/on a school zone, so laws didn't do much to protect.

This should have been the easiest tragedy to avoid, Laws are already written against it, the FBI knew about it, the School had an armed Officer assigned, every thing was in place. But in the final analysis, it's the "Good Guy" with the gun taking action that is the only actual deterrent. If that doesn't happen, how are schools/churches and all the other NO GUN ZONES going to be defensed?

I understand that We The People have had our fill of getting our 2A rights attacked, and I'm not to keen on giving our supposed protecting agencies more invasive powers within my home, but WE need to improve something to keep the children safe don't WE?
Click to expand...


And why is the default thing we need to 'improve' gun ownership restriction?

There have been myriad cultural changes in the past thirty years that have MUCH more to do with recent school shootings than any firearm-related regulations. I, for one, do not think it's a coincidence that the children raised in the era of 'no physical punishment' are committing these acts; let's talk about parenting, instead of guns.

So to answer your question-not.one.more.restriction.


Larry
 
I would let them pass a law that prohibits anyone owning or operating a firearm that do not have the initials JM, IF they also included motor vehicles.

How about a law that forces gun free zones around all Government buildings including security personnel in and around them. If they think a law restricting guns is going to help them, “put up or shut up”.

Really, if you give them anything that’s like feeding an alligator a hotdog you are holding in your hand. Once he goes after it you are relying on “hope” that it doesn’t take more than you want him to.
 
Nothing will be done legislatively on the gun issue, on the federal level, this year. Therefore, this is not the time to be talking about a "compromise." (I'm not so sure about the state level. Fla. Gov. Rick Scott has already caved to the antigunners on age limits and assault weapons.)

What is happening is that the antigunners (in connection with the Democrats) are positioning themselves for the fall 2018 election. Specifically, the gun issue is a wedge to use in upscale suburban congressional districts now held by Republicans. (Example: Barbara Comstock in Virginia's 10th District.) That's where control of Congress will flip, if it does so. The Republicans are in danger of becoming a purely rural party. That would put them into a permanent minority.
 
M118LR said:
This was supposed to be an evolving experiment, capable of change based on the needs of the Common Man
Click to expand...


I'd like to hear more from you regarding this part I quoted.


The 10 Bill of Rights an 'evolving experiment'??????

Our Forefathers said 'inalienable rights'.

People have debated what the words in the 10 BOR meant at the time but I've never heard anyone contend that 'inalienable rights' to mean, in any way shape or form, 'evolving experiment'.
 
M118LR said:
So where should we draw the "Line in the sand"
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The line in the sand was crossed long ago. We need to work on eliminating infringements on the 2A.
The most recent tragedy in Florida could have been prevented or at least stopped sooner if not for multiple failures of government.
More freedom is the answer, not more government.
The sad reality is anti gun groups and politicians use tragic events like the one in Florida to their advantage.
Imagine the damage to their cause if a school shooting was prevented by an armed teacher.
 
coloradokevin said:
How much are we willing to give up?

Honestly? Absolutely nothing. Period.

I am not at fault for the actions of a murderer. The 2nd Amendment has not lost any importance because of this person's crime. Criminals don't kill because guns are available, they kill because of some other evil intention. I'm not willing to give up anything. "Common sense" has never existed in the world of gun control, nor has "compromise".

If the left really wants compromise, here's one I'll live with:

1) They get universal background checks.

2) We get the hearing protection act passed without being watered down. We get the machine-gun registry reopened for all of us who weren't old enough to buy these guns in 1986. The $200 tax stamp is removed for NFA items.


If they want to talk about compromise, I'll happily sign on that one. That will never happen though, because this wasn't ever about compromise.
Click to expand...
Real compromise like this could pass quickly. But once I've passed the background check why do I need to do it over and over again, This is pure harassment.
 
My theory is that this struggle is not really about guns. Guns are a marker for the playing out of social antagonisms. Certain circles of, shall we say, "urban sophisticates" absolutely hate the social groups typified by gun owners -- rural people, small business owners, "redneck yahoos," "southern crackers," Trump voters. Guns are just an "acceptable stand-in" for such prejudice. Battle lines are being drawn, and it goes far beyond guns. (As others have said, it's not about guns, it's about control.)
 
Not an inch. We have already given up too much. The answer doesn't lie with more gun control.

My son is a HS Junior. We live in an ISD that is fairly affluent. Spend the money that we have spent on "the Star", i.e. the Dallas Cowboys HQ (yeah, we are partially paying for that) and spend it on security. If the schools look like prisons, so be it.

The media is fanning the flames when they are actually complicit by glorifying these shooters. The hypocrites have the audacity to blame law abiding gun owners and the NRA.

We need to go on the offensive and I'm not quite sure how we do that.
 
AlexanderA said:
My theory is that this struggle is not really about guns. Guns are a marker for the playing out of social antagonisms. Certain circles of, shall we say, "urban sophisticates" absolutely hate the social groups typified by gun owners -- rural people, small business owners, "redneck yahoos," "southern crackers," Trump voters. Guns are just an "acceptable stand-in" for such prejudice. Battle lines are being drawn, and it goes far beyond guns. (As others have said, it's not about guns, it's about control.)
Click to expand...


Well.... your theory is supported by the fact that they have for decades demonized objects in order to gain more control of people.

Alcohol
Fossil fuels
Heavy vehicles regardless of MPG
Knives
Paper bags
Plastic bags
Sugar

I'll stop here and save bandwidth and serve storage space.
 
So what should we offer as a solution other than more firearm legislature?

It's going to take something to placate the beast.
 
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