Rendering aid to someone you just shot (moved from Legal)

I don't think I could comprehend compassion for someone who just tried to kill or grievously harm me. I am only almost human and my emotions get the best of me at times. Like when I have another at gunpoint...

I imagine. God, I pray I never need know.

There's too may possibilities to say for sure, of course.

But, If the threat was stopped, and anybody at the scene needed help that I could give, I would do my best to render aid....at least, I like to think so.
Whether that be to stop bleeding, give CPR, or to pray over recently deceased....

M1key said:

Rendering aid to someone you just shot

I just wonder how many gun owners consider this in a defensive shooting?

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Even though I was a medic in the Army with expectation that I may need to treat enemy combatants, I absolutely WOULD NOT in a personal defensive shooting situation.

M1key said:

How about if you or loved one is shot? It would be smart to have clotting bandages in a first aid kit readily accessible, don't you think?

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It would be a good idea to have first aid kit in case of injuries to yourself or family. In addition to regular bandages, sanitary pads and tampons are great for gun shot wounds. They are cheap and effective. If you want, you could get body armor to improve your survival chances.

M1key said:

Aren't police required to do so if they have to shoot someone?

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I am not the police so I don't worry about that.

M1key said:

Do we have a moral or legal obligation to do so?

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OP, please come back to reality. The threat just tried to kill you!!!

For me to shoot at anyone is when they are actively threatening my life. Once I start shooting, I would only stop shooting if the threat to my life stopped or the threat was neutralized or I ran out of ammunition.

Once the threat stopped attacking or was not moving, I would wait for police to respond while ensuring I was safe from any other possible threats but still treat the stopped/not moving threat as potentially active threat. There is a possibility that threat could be faking being injured/dead. I for one do not want to find that out the wrong way. Once police arrive, an assessment can be safely made as to whether the threat requires medical attention. Until then I would consider the shot threat as potentially active threat to me.

Contrary to what Hollywood portrays, people DO NOT just drop and die when they are shot. Most still move around and keep attacking their victims until enough blood loss to brain slows them down or stops them - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/how-fast-should-you-shoot.834838/#post-10801228

Check out this video. Would you render assistance to this robber?




I totally agree with Odd Job's post.

Odd Job said:

Retreat to a safe distance and phone it in.
These are some of the risks of rendering aid:

1) The assailant may not be neutralised and could harm you if you get within reach

2) The assailant might have an accomplice who could harm you whilst you are occupied with rendering aid

3) The assailant might resist your attempts to render aid. Given this is a gunshot injury your risk of infection from blood or other substances is increased

4) From a forensic point of view, you may disturb or alter certain "things" which would have been quite helpful to your cause legally if the assailant subsequently died.

Lastly, I don't know how successful the assailant would be if he tried to sue you after you rendered aid and he claimed you attempted further harm under the guise of rendering aid.

I just can't see anything good coming of it.

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I have heard 2 things which I believe both of.

#1 You were attacked and ended the threat. Your engagement is done. You now make a decision on whether you should render aid or not, and Good Samaritan law comes into play.

#2 You shot the bad guy, and you relish in the moment. You take your sweet time about calling for aid because if HE had won he would leave you for dead, or would make sure you were before he left. You intentionally wait until your relatively sure the bad guy will not survive to tell his side of the story because dead men tell no tales...You can be facing serious charges.

My solid best answer is to report the gunfight from a safer location as soon as you can reach a location that is percieved to be safer. You will be in some emotional distress, ask for aid in that because you can't be expected to do anything when you are distressed from being involved in a gunfight.

I wonder how one would feel after giving aid to the robber and he sues for everything alleging you tried to harm him after he stopped his attack and unable to fight back after being shot ... I am sure this scenario must have already happened.

I rather call 911 instead and let police/dispatch make the call for ambulance.

This was my response in a similar thread five years ago:

"Did you do anything to try to save the life of the person you shot?"


"Yes. I took two specific actions. I called for emergency response, and I kept him covered from a safe distance to prevent him from doing anything that would get him shot again."

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And I'm a working EMT (and former law enforcement.)

WestKentucky said:

#2 You shot the bad guy, and you relish in the moment. You take your sweet time about calling for aid because if HE had won he would leave you for dead, or would make sure you were before he left. You intentionally wait until your relatively sure the bad guy will not survive to tell his side of the story because dead men tell no tales...You can be facing serious charges.

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When a defensive shooting takes place the police will be called immediately. They will bring the medical aid, for everyone. I do not equate lack of compassion for a would be murderer to the malice described here. Further, if

dead men tell no tales

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why wait, shoot them once more. But,

You will be facing serious charges.

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Could not the attempt to render aid be considered an omission of guilt or remorse? I mean an attorney will try to spin it in court. I mean it would also go to show that the intent was defense not murder. I can see it going both ways.

This is one of those questions that I would never say yea or nay to on an open forum.

WestKentucky said:

#2 You shot the bad guy, and you relish in the moment. You take your sweet time about calling for aid because if HE had won he would leave you for dead, or would make sure you were before he left. You intentionally wait until your relatively sure the bad guy will not survive to tell his side of the story because dead men tell no tales...You can be facing serious charges.

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Really?

Did you get that from any of the well reasoned responses to this thread or is this something that you would do? I don't se anyone advocating for this approach.

I found some wound scabbing powder at the grocery store pharmacy. My wife tried it on a cut and said it hurt like HELL. So yeah I might dump some of that on a perp's wound just to make them suffer a bit.

Arkansas Paul said:

Not me.
God forbid, if I ever have to use a firearm in a defensive situation, I'm getting as far away from the perp as possible and calling 911.
I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to carry special equipment/first aid supplies just in case I have to shoot someone.

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Some states require rendering first aid, if you can safely do it. (Have disarmed them) Not everyone is skilled in first aid. It is possible to do more harm than good.

It depends on the situation. If I can render aid with reasonable personal safety, I would. But I'm not really seeing too many situations where that's likely to be a safe choice. So the aid I would render is most likely to be requesting EMS while I'm on with 911 dispatch and potentially advising the person shot in self-aid.

M1key said:

I just ordered some of the new Israeli bandages to stop bleeding (from say a gunshot wound) which prompted this discussion with the wife. Curious what the "legal eagles" here have to say about the legal ramifications if one does or does not make an attempt to save the life of someone you just shot in self defense.

I just wonder how many gun owners consider this in a defensive shooting?

M

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Did you remember to order latex gloves and a face shield? A little bit of the wrong blood can do serious harm. Hepatitis, Parasites, and even Aids can be contracted by contact with blood.
Unless you have all of the proper safety equipment, and training to use it, along with the training to render first aid, I'd say no. Leave it to the professionals.

Not touching the guy. His problem, not mine.

Sistema1927 said:

Really?

Did you get that from any of the well reasoned responses to this thread or is this something that you would do? I don't se anyone advocating for this approach.

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Did it even remotely appear that I was advocating this? If so then reread. Any action to further injure or maliciously impair thebad guy after the end of the threat can be considered assault, manslaughter, and even murder under certain laws. By intentionally failing to call for aid you are purposefully impairing the wounded attackers chance of survival. That is not only illegal but also shows a want for the individual to die which even if everything up to the inaction of making a phone call was good it suddenly spins it to looking like something different.

WestKentucky said:

Did it even remotely appear that I was advocating this? If so then reread. Any action to further injure or maliciously impair thebad guy after the end of the threat can be considered assault, manslaughter, and even murder under certain laws. By intentionally failing to call for aid you are purposefully impairing the wounded attackers chance of survival. That is not only illegal but also shows a want for the individual to die which even if everything up to the inaction of making a phone call was good it suddenly spins it to looking like something different.

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But, prior to characterizing the viewpoint that I highlighted above, you prefaced with "I have heard 2 things which I believe both of." Regardless of your dangling participle, this would lead a reader to believe that you are offering assent to the viewpoints presented.

You certainly didn't hear #2 from any of the well reasoned responses offered here, I still contend that it is made up of whole cloth from a fertile (if not wicked) imagination.

entropy said:

Some states require rendering first aid, if you can safely do it. (Have disarmed them)

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Can you name these states?

WI, for one, although it was written more for hunting accidents. To my knowledge, no one has been charged with not rendering aid in self-defense shooting in WI, but nonetheless the law is on the books, and does not specify what type of shooting.

Sistema1927 said:

But, prior to characterizing the viewpoint that I highlighted above, you prefaced with "I have heard 2 things which I believe both of." Regardless of your dangling participle, this would lead a reader to believe that you are offering assent to the viewpoints presented.

You certainly didn't hear #2 from any of the well reasoned responses offered here, I still contend that it is made up of whole cloth from a fertile (if not wicked) imagination.

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Not imagination, but not personal experience either. My wife worked EMS for quite some time, and worked some “interesting” calls. People do very odd, selfish, and wicked things that they justify to themselves as a coping mechanism to deal with the remorse and stress from the situation. The generic comment she described was something to the point of “he was still alive and I was scared to look away long enough to go get the phone.” Where in reality she said you could see in their face that the explanation was at least in part a fabrication. This world is a wicked place full of wicked people who do wicked things. The moral bar is set pretty low, the legal bar even lower.

Edit to add, this wasn’t limited to defensive situations but also wrecks, medical conditions etc. It seems that many people see personal satisfaction as a very high value item. Greed (inheritance) anger, and spite seem to trump all other things far too often.

entropy said:

Some states require rendering first aid, if you can safely do it. (Have disarmed them) Not everyone is skilled in first aid. It is possible to do more harm than good.

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I'm not qualified to do that.

This is one of those things that no honest, intelligent, thinking person can answer in advanced. It seems most here create a situation in their mind and then give an answer for what you’d do.

Theirs something wrong with anybody who could spend 15-20 minuets waiting on police and watching, say, a 15 year old kid scream “I’m sorry, somebody please help me!” While he bleeds out slowly dying in front of you. After dropping what you now see is a unloaded revolver. This is one of thousands of possibilities and if that wouldn’t bother you, seek therapy.

And likewise no one with any sense will try an help a gangbanger looking guy laying on the ground screaming “I’m gonna *#&@“$ kill you if you come over here!” Especially considering he had just given you justification to shoot him.

This type of thing is 100% situational.

Odd Job said:

I just can't see anything good coming of it.

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Really, seriously?
Here’s one.... A human life could be saved.