Should Aid be Rendered?

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I'm not an EMT and have no idea how to 'render aid' in the first place. In the second place I'd probably sit down and cry like a little girl after shooting an armed intruder in my own home. I'd probably be adrenalized, shaky, and confused, on top of being partially deaf/ears ringing.
 
I might put a tournequet on him, but only to keep the wife from B!^@#!ng about the mess he was making on the carpet. My feeble medical skill might get the tournequet around his neck though.

Sam
 
A long time back in this thread, the question was whether giving first aid to a subject you just shot would be a legal liability. I have consulted with a few other attorneys, and the agreement was that giving aid or not giving aid are both defensible positions. Neither will hang you, and neither will sink you. So, do what you believe to be tactially correct at the moment, and stay safe.
 
I would get my family in my safe room (master bathroom), call the police and paramedics and tell them you've shot an armed intruder and that you are in the master bathroom with your family and to come at once. Advise you're not sure if there are other intruders.
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Roger that. My job is not to kill him or to save him, but to protect my family. If I've done my job right, I've stopped things at an outer perimeter (say, at the bottom of the stairs leading to the sleeping quarters) and my next move is to retreat myself and my family to safer environment and reestablish a defensible position.

If he hobbles away, that's what he does. If he bleeds out - that's what happens. If he lays there and pulls his pud while waiting for the EMTs - nobody's gonna know but him. I'm not gonna be there to see it, because I'll be busy retreating my family and calling 911.
 
see if you can find a way to disarm him safely. Once he's disarmed, search him for additonal weapons. Hand off your weapon to your wife so that she can cover you, then perform whatever first aid seems appropriate or necessary.


__________________
Blerrt
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This may be the worst advice I've ever seen!

Find a way to disarm him? What, use my lasso? Shoot the knife out of his hand? Let's say he did toss the knife away. Now you want me to get within
his reach to pat him down for weapons? Oh but not to worry, my wife will have me 'covered'. What do you suppose my wife's blood pressure and mental status will be at this point in time?

I will follow this advice though: " then perform whatever first aid seems appropriate or necessary."
Which will add up to nothing.
 
RBernie
Roger that. My job is not to kill him or to save him, but to protect my family. If I've done my job right, I've stopped things at an outer perimeter (say, at the bottom of the stairs leading to the sleeping quarters) and my next move is to retreat myself and my family to safer environment and reestablish a defensible position.

If he hobbles away, that's what he does
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I'm not sure this is real good advice either. I'd take a defensive position but keep him covered until the police get there. I don't want him sneaking off to harm me or my neighbors another day.
 
I'd take a defensive position but keep him covered until the police get there. I don't want him sneaking off to harm me or my neighbors another day.
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But that's not my immediate problem at that point in time. Ensuring the safety of my family is. It does no good to play cop and try to detain this induhvidual if doing so increases the immediate risk posture of my family.
 
I would say "Yes" - not because I give a damn if the BG dies or not, but simply because it looks better to the liberals should anyone sue or attempt to prosecute you. The threat has been taken care of, the "civilizied" thing to do is to render the minimum aid necessary.

It sucks ... but this is the world in which we live.
 
RBernie,

But that's not my immediate problem at that point in time. Ensuring the safety of my family is. It does no good to play cop and try to detain this induhvidual if doing so increases the immediate risk posture of my family.
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I guess I you need to explain to me how keeping the guy covered until he is into police custody endangers your family.
 
I guess I you need to explain to me how keeping the guy covered until he is into police custody endangers your family.
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How do I ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY know that there's not more than one of 'em? I don't.

If your house is like most, most every room in the public space (living room, family room, kitchen, etc.) has more than one entrance/exit. It'd be really easy to be surprised by BadGuy#2, and my being rendered hors de combat does my family no good AT ALL.

So I stop the ones that I see and I then evac the family to a more defensible position at the earliest possible opportunity (e.g. when the ones that I see are no longer immediate threats). My job is to stop the immediate threat, get the family into a relatively protected space, and defend that space's perimeter until the cavalry (police) arrive. Anything more than that is, IMO, asking for trouble.
 
Rbernie,

Let's change the scenario just a little. We've been talking about a wounded attacker before, how about if he isn't wounded.

You see a guy in your house with a knife, you have a gun. As soon as he sees you he throws himself to the floor, begging for mercy (and has tossed his knife safely away).

Now obviously you aren't going to shoot this guy. But are you just going to walk away from him to your 'safe place'?
 
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If he hobbles away, that's what he does.
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And if he comes back from his car with a FN-FAL, your safe room may not seem so impregnable. And if he brings back 5 gallons of gas and a book of matches, you will be leaving your safe room.

It's a really bad idea to leave an armed, mobile intruder roaming around in your house, even if he's injured.
 
There are just too many variables for there to be ONE right answer. As far as rendering aid, I dialed 911, that's all the aid the SOB is getting from me.

As for everythihg else, you just have to make the best decision you can considering the "totality of circumstances". Is the BG mobile? Well what did you shoot him WITH? a 22 or a 12ga slug? If you hit him with a 22 that only went through the muscle, he may still be VERY mobile, if you broke his femur with a 12ga slug, he ain't likely to be going anywhere. If you cut his femorial artery, he's going to bleed out real fast, go into shock and possibly die. The BG himself is a MAJOR variable. There are cases of people who dropped DRT from wounds that theoretically should not have been leathal. There are the cases of guys with multiple leathal wounds killing the guy who shot them. Your spouse/SO or other household members are a variable. They may be better than you are at dealing with the situation, you might want to let THEM take the lead.


IMHO, you priorities should be;

1. Keep YOU alive an safe FIRST. You can't protect anyone if you're dead.

2. keep your family safe. Retreat and laager up, or evacuate.
 
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I agree with GEM.

He should be lucky he is still alive first of all. Secondly he should put the knife down before he presents himself as a continued danger and needs to be shot a second time.

I would be calling the police and ambulance as soon as it is safe to do so. He would not get ANY help from me and would need to await the police and/or ambulance. I would not risk danger to myself or my wife so that someone who endangered us can be assisted.

I would toss him a towel or something similar to apply pressure to the wound to attempt to stop, or at least limit, the bleeding. He would need to disarm himself in order to get the towel though.

If this sounds wrong or inhuman - then I would suggest burglars stay out of my house.

Luke
 
Quote:
see if you can find a way to disarm him safely. Once he's disarmed, search him for additonal weapons. Hand off your weapon to your wife so that she can cover you, then perform whatever first aid seems appropriate or necessary.


__________________
Blerrt


This may be the worst advice I've ever seen!

Find a way to disarm him? What, use my lasso? Shoot the knife out of his hand? Let's say he did toss the knife away. Now you want me to get within
his reach to pat him down for weapons? Oh but not to worry, my wife will have me 'covered'. What do you suppose my wife's blood pressure and mental status will be at this point in time?
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By 'disarm him' I was thinking more along the lines of ordering him to give up his weapon, not trying to take it by force. If he and his knife are still a threat to me, I won't go anywhere near him, and I'd probably keep shooting.

A lot of people, even criminals, would have the brains to realize that the game is over at this point, and that they've lost. If his only obvious choices are to cooperate with me or die, it's possible that he'd choose to cooperate. "Cooperating" means making himself as incapable of threatening me as humanly possible.

As for my wife's mental condition, well, she knows how to handle herself under stress. I don't have any qualms about entrusting her with my gun, so long as the threat is minimized.

To all you folks who say you'd just stand by and watch him die, I have the following question: Have any of you actually watched a man die? Do you really understand what that entails?
 
I think there is an important moral and ethical difference between "watching a man die" and "covering an injured but still dangerous man until EMS and police arrive".

The first implies an active disregard for human life, the second a balancing act between his well-being and you and your family's safety.
 
To all you folks who say you'd just stand by and watch him die, I have the following question: Have any of you actually watched a man die? Do you really understand what that entails?
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Yes, and yes. What I'm trying to avoid is having my wife and children watch me die, because I didn't understand that, "The enemy of good is perfect."
Once this guy breaks into my house and threatens me or those that I protect with grave bodily injury, I'm going to do everything within my power to make sure he can't hurt me or mine. Once I get into a position that seems to guarantee my family's safety, I will not yield it for any position that is less certain.
There's a reason why scene security is a priority for the responding EMS. That should be a clue.
 
It's a really bad idea to leave an armed, mobile intruder roaming around in your house, even if he's injured.
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I don't disagree at all. But it's probably even worse, IMO, to stand there immobile. My point was that if he's still a threat - I don't stop shooting. If the threat is neutalized, then I'm regrouping and retreating.

If he hobbles away, that's what he does. If he bleeds out - that's what happens. If he lays there and pulls his pud while waiting for the EMTs - nobody's gonna know but him.
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I posted this somewhat tongue-in-cheek; I thought that the reference to pulling his pud would have given that away. Sorry if anyone took this too literally.... ;)
 
I seem to missing something here. The situation is that someone breaks into your house with you and your family there. He is armed with a knife and you confront him. You feel that your life is threatened so you shoot. You hit him in the thigh and down he goes knife still in hand. He's bleeding...a lot....should you render aid? OHHHH...this is easy...in my opinion you have 2 choices.

1...SHOOT AGAIN! Finish the job! Do you really think he would waste any time stabbing you again?

2...LET HIM BLEED OUT! Do you think he would help you? In my world the last thing he would experiance is seeing me sitting in front of him lighting a smoke and cussing him out for bleeding all over MY floor.

This ain't no episode out of some hollywood movie. That man came into your home with the intent of doing you or your family harm! He entered into a life and death struggle with you. YOU WON! It's done. If he dies then so what. If you want, turn it around. Lets say he gets the better of you and there you are laying on the floor like that. Do you really think he would render aid? Or stab you again or maybe just leave you there to bleed out while he rapes your wife and takes what he wants. Then, as he leaves he smiles at you. Still want to render aid? Not here! Not me! Chivalry is holding a door for a lady not rendering aid to an armed intruder. Screw him! Lets face it, we buy deadly weapons and we train to use them. When/if the situation arises where we must deploy that weapon/training it isn't going to be neat or pretty. There are no rules. There is no calling a time out if someone gets hurt. There will be a winner and there will be a loser. The loser stands a good chance of dying.
There are some comments about the legality of the whole thing. Ok, so you explain what happened. Be careful to say he confronted you not that you went lookin for him even in your own home. Defending property is not a good enough reason to use deadly force. Then you tell the court that after you eliminated the threat you took your family and retreated to a safe place to call 911. How could you possibly be held accountable for that bozo's death?
 
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