The best-and worst-rifle safeties
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JeffG
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Sistema1927
Member
The beauty of the Garand style safety is that your finger is not in the trigger guard until you are ready to disengage the safety.
Safety on - finger outside trigger guard
Safety off - finger inside the trigger guard, ready to fire.
someguy2800
Member
Worst hands down is the Mosin Nagant.
I also dislike a crossbolt safety in front of the trigger guard. It has just never been intuitive to me which way is which. I much prefer a tang safety that slides back and forth or one on the right side of the receiver like a Tikka or Remington 700. I also don't like the striker mounted mauser safety's.
I disagree with that personally. The unsafe part is lowering the hammer to half cock after you rack a round in the chamber, which is the only time I use the safety on a lever gun. My father in law was a hunters safety instructor for many years and always told me almost all the negligent discharges he ever witnessed were young kids trying to manipulate the hammer with there thumb.
Yeah they are a goofy one. The previous owner of mine put a piece of skateboard tape on it and its easy to turn with your thumb that way.
I also dislike a crossbolt safety in front of the trigger guard. It has just never been intuitive to me which way is which. I much prefer a tang safety that slides back and forth or one on the right side of the receiver like a Tikka or Remington 700. I also don't like the striker mounted mauser safety's.
I disagree with that personally. The unsafe part is lowering the hammer to half cock after you rack a round in the chamber, which is the only time I use the safety on a lever gun. My father in law was a hunters safety instructor for many years and always told me almost all the negligent discharges he ever witnessed were young kids trying to manipulate the hammer with there thumb.
Yeah they are a goofy one. The previous owner of mine put a piece of skateboard tape on it and its easy to turn with your thumb that way.
wally
Member
I don't know of any rifles that have a firing pin block as in most modern handguns. Rifle and shotgun safeties only seem to block the sear from releasing the hammer or striker (we can quibble as to if a striker is a firing pin), but most modern handguns have an independent mechanism activated by the trigger (or grip safety) that work independent of the sear to prevent the primer from being struck should the sear fail.
Seems to me you are only discussing ergonomics of how the sear is blocked or unblocked. I'm not much of a hunter, but I never walk in the field with a chambered round in a rifle or shotgun, having had a cousin killed by a dropped shotgun while he was hunting. I can chamber a round as I shoulder my gun for the shot, if I miss or spook the game so what, its not like I'm going to starve if I don't get it. but I'm sure I'm in a very small minority here.
I trust loaded chambers in modern handguns with firing pin blocks, and that is why I was such a strong participant in the threads about the SIG P320 firing when dropped and stopped using my Taurus pistols recalled in the class action lawsuit as soon as news of them not being "drop safe" came out -- well before the lawsuit. SIG did it right, Taurus has done everything wrong.
someguy2800
Member
Oh and not a rifle but one of the most frustrating safety's I ever has was a walther pk380. It had a backwards slide mounted safety like a beretta, but it did not act as a decocker, and it did not even deactivate the trigger. It just flipped up a little lever to block the hammer from hitting the firing pin. So if you tried to fire it with the safety on the trigger would pull as normal and cock and release the hammer in double action, only the gun would not fire of course. I bought it for a knock around gun around the farm and carried it safety off in a strapped hip holster, but I can't tell you how many times I tried to shoot it only to find the safety had been bumped on in the holster. I would always think it was a misfire because there was no indication the gun was in safe.
someguy2800
Member
A tikka T3 has a firing pin block as well as a sear block. I would have to look at my other rifles to see which ones do or not but pretty sure almost all bolt rifles do. The bolt mounted safety's on mausers and other military actions of course do as they actually retract the firing pin off the sear.
Blkhrt13
Member
I’d have to say it’s the smelly Enfield. I loved the rifle but if you put the safety on with a round chambered taking it off discharged the rifle. Prolly not all of them. But mine was like that.
SwampWolf
Member
Like others have opined, I too like the operation and location of the "Garand-style" safety. And as much of a "traditionalist" that I am when it comes to all things firearm-related, I have no problem with the looks or operation of tang or cross-bolt safeties on lever-action rifles. I actually sold one of my favorite waterfowl shotguns, a Model 97 pump, because the trigger guard was so small when inserting a gloved finger and the checkering on the hammer spur so worn that I was always flirting with an inadvertent discharge whilst lowering the hammer to the half-cock position.
I much prefer 3-position safeties on bolt-action rifles, like found on Winchester Model 70s, Savage Model 110s and Ruger Mark IIs. I'm fine with 2-position safeties that lock the bolt shut when on safe, as found in the original Ruger Model 77 and Remington Model 700 rifles, but I'm no fan of 2-position safeties that allow the bolt to open while the safety is engaged.
I like the location and operation of tang-mounted safeties like found on later Savage Model 99, Ruger Model 77 and Savage Model 110 rifles; Mossberg and Browning pump shotguns and most double-barrel shotguns.
On rifles and shotguns that have cross-bolt safeties, I prefer them to be located at the front of the trigger guard as opposed to on the rear.
And, finally, I have yet to find a safety that is more easily accessed and used by right-handers and left-handers alike than the one found on the Val Browning-designed Browning "Double Auto" shotgun. For those that are unfamiliar with this shotgun, the safety is located at the rear, behind the trigger guard and is operated by moving it on or off in a vertical direction; down for "safe", up for "fire".
I much prefer 3-position safeties on bolt-action rifles, like found on Winchester Model 70s, Savage Model 110s and Ruger Mark IIs. I'm fine with 2-position safeties that lock the bolt shut when on safe, as found in the original Ruger Model 77 and Remington Model 700 rifles, but I'm no fan of 2-position safeties that allow the bolt to open while the safety is engaged.
I like the location and operation of tang-mounted safeties like found on later Savage Model 99, Ruger Model 77 and Savage Model 110 rifles; Mossberg and Browning pump shotguns and most double-barrel shotguns.
On rifles and shotguns that have cross-bolt safeties, I prefer them to be located at the front of the trigger guard as opposed to on the rear.
And, finally, I have yet to find a safety that is more easily accessed and used by right-handers and left-handers alike than the one found on the Val Browning-designed Browning "Double Auto" shotgun. For those that are unfamiliar with this shotgun, the safety is located at the rear, behind the trigger guard and is operated by moving it on or off in a vertical direction; down for "safe", up for "fire".
Mosin Bubba
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Best for me hands down is the 3 position Mausers. It gives you the option to run the bolt with the trigger disconnected to load and unload, and to lock both the bolt and the trigger. And it could not be any more simple or unobtrusive.
Worst - I'd like to give Glock an award for having a safety that's literally defeated by pulling the trigger, but we're talking rifles. Probably the Mosin "what safety?" safety, or the dust cover on the AK. As a way to simplify manufacturing and lower the parts count, I think it's really clever design. As a gun safety, I think it sucks.
Reminds me of one of those Mosin facts on the internet.
AR - Your safety can be tactically operated with your thumb.
AK - The entire county hears you when you flip your safety off.
Mosin - Safety?! Is gun! Gun not safe!
Worst - I'd like to give Glock an award for having a safety that's literally defeated by pulling the trigger, but we're talking rifles. Probably the Mosin "what safety?" safety, or the dust cover on the AK. As a way to simplify manufacturing and lower the parts count, I think it's really clever design. As a gun safety, I think it sucks.
Reminds me of one of those Mosin facts on the internet.
AR - Your safety can be tactically operated with your thumb.
AK - The entire county hears you when you flip your safety off.
Mosin - Safety?! Is gun! Gun not safe!
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
Lever gun cross bolt safeties.
It's interesting how some hate them, and others don't mind them at all.
If I compare a lever gun with only a half cock safety to an old design revolver with only a half cock safety, most people (in the 21st century and even back in the 20th century) would insist that the hammer on one of those type of revolvers rest over an empty chamber.
Why trust a half cock safety on a loaded chamber lever gun being carried, but not on a revolver with a half cock safety?
Now, if all these lever guns had a transfer bar, like a modernized Henry lever gun, I would consider that just as safe as a revolver equipped the same.
It's interesting how some hate them, and others don't mind them at all.
If I compare a lever gun with only a half cock safety to an old design revolver with only a half cock safety, most people (in the 21st century and even back in the 20th century) would insist that the hammer on one of those type of revolvers rest over an empty chamber.
Why trust a half cock safety on a loaded chamber lever gun being carried, but not on a revolver with a half cock safety?
Now, if all these lever guns had a transfer bar, like a modernized Henry lever gun, I would consider that just as safe as a revolver equipped the same.
Coal Dragger
member
The best safety on a rifle is found on the Blaser R8 (and R93 before it).
When the rifle is on safe the striker spring has no tension on it at all making it impossible to discharge a round. Taking the safety off cocks the striker. The safety is located in an easy to reach spot and is ambidextrous. The system also allows for loading or unloading with the safety engaged, otherwise the default is that the action is locked. If the trigger group is removed the safety is automatically engaged.
The worst safety is that found on the Remington 700 obviously. They lost all those lawsuits to prove it.
When the rifle is on safe the striker spring has no tension on it at all making it impossible to discharge a round. Taking the safety off cocks the striker. The safety is located in an easy to reach spot and is ambidextrous. The system also allows for loading or unloading with the safety engaged, otherwise the default is that the action is locked. If the trigger group is removed the safety is automatically engaged.
The worst safety is that found on the Remington 700 obviously. They lost all those lawsuits to prove it.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
One of my most hated safeties is what comes on a Beretta Neos pistol. I mention this in a rifle thread because I had owned the carbine version for a few years.
The safety levers are not in a natural position for the shooting hand at all. I guess the safety itself is okay as it jams the sear spring plunger into a locked up mode under the striker. But, even Beretta decided the sear engagement wasn't safe enough with that pistol and had a recall program to change out the striker with a small sear surface to a striker with a deep sear surface. Safer, but it made a mediocre trigger much worse.
The safety levers are not in a natural position for the shooting hand at all. I guess the safety itself is okay as it jams the sear spring plunger into a locked up mode under the striker. But, even Beretta decided the sear engagement wasn't safe enough with that pistol and had a recall program to change out the striker with a small sear surface to a striker with a deep sear surface. Safer, but it made a mediocre trigger much worse.
someguy2800
Member
Oh, how did I forget. Hi point carbine. It’s on the left side above your thumb and flips up and down. I’m 6’4” and my thumb is still to short to operate the safety or the mag catch for that matter without contorting my hand. It also has no tactile click of any kind. Just slides up or down or anywhere in between. Neat guns otherwise.
Elkins45
Member
The safety on bolt like 98 Mauser or Ruger Hawkeye do it for me. Easy to reach, and it absolutely blocks the striker from falling. The safety would still work even if the trigger were to fall out the bottom.
No point in addressing the bad ones. There's so many. M/N's the worst I've ever seen.
For me, from a hunter's perspective, it's nice to be able to see the safety easily, as you are sighting in game. The standard
tang safety is nice, also the 2 position safety on the Ruger M77, both easily flipped off with the thumb, and easy to spot.
For me, from a hunter's perspective, it's nice to be able to see the safety easily, as you are sighting in game. The standard
tang safety is nice, also the 2 position safety on the Ruger M77, both easily flipped off with the thumb, and easy to spot.
I thought the same thing about my rossis little firing pin block safety, and safties on hammered single shots/muzzleloaders.
Right untill my buddy slipped the hammer on my .44 super black hawk trying to lower it as a truck drove up on us while we were shooting. Now it's probably easier to do it with a revolver, but the motion is the same. They same guy shoots a single shot Rossi, it has a safety, now he uses it.
Compared to those, yes. But I find it much better than a Mosin even so.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I am a firm believer in the Mauser/Springfield/Winchester Model 70 safety:
1. There is nothing to break or fail between the safety and the striker.
2. You can work the bolt with the safety engaged -- you NEVER have to go hot until you're ready to shoot.
3. They're well positioned and easy to operate.
1. There is nothing to break or fail between the safety and the striker.
2. You can work the bolt with the safety engaged -- you NEVER have to go hot until you're ready to shoot.
3. They're well positioned and easy to operate.
Technique, and attention. Never had a neg discharge slipping the hammer on any gun - rifle, pistol, shotgun or revolver - in 50 years. It is one of those operations I always give my full attention.
hot chili powder
Member
A crossbolt safety on a Model 94 Win or Marlin 336 is, to me, just plain wrong. Learn to be safe......no crossbolt for 100 years or so,thank the lawyers for it!
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