9mm powder charges

Welcome to THR. I can't tell you how many new reloaded feel they need specific data for every bullet available, we don't. It's one of the reasons data is given in a range. Most times data is safe for bullets of the same weight, construction and profile no matter who makes it. Start low and work up.

Of the powders you listed I would go with AA#5 but AA#2 will work well for light plinking loads.

mofosheee said:

1.2705" - 1.09" = 0.1805" case space

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You aren't measuring case space with that formula, you are measuring how far you are pressing the bullet into the case.

mofosheee said:

Thank you for setting me straight! Excuse me, the bullet was inserted into the case approximately 0.1805".
My concern is that of making a compressed load. Thank you for responding.

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Compressed loads are not usually dangerous. You see them more in rifle cartridges than handguns but they do exist in published data.

How far different bullets seat into the case can't always be measured by the COAL. Not every bullet has the same height and flat nose bullets compared to round nose will nowhere near seat as deeply in the case at the same COAL.

I would not recommend changing the load data by using your own calculations, again, start low and work up.

For plated bullets, just start with lead bullet data. Use a load for a bullet of roughly the same shape and weight. Get a handle on reloading them and later, if you choose, go with the "formula"; "medium jacketed loads"...

This is one major reason I don't recommend plated bullets to new reloaders; not enough easily found data/information. I only tried about 1.000 plated bullets in my pistols and found nothing they did any better/easier than my home cast or jacketed bullets. Even cost isn't such a big deal as I get a lot of my 9mm and 45 ACP jacketed bullets from RMR, at a reasonable price...

1.09" isn't short for a flat point 9mm bullet. A flat point bullet doesn't have as long of a nose. The Western Powders online load guide has data for 10 different 124/125 bullets and AA#2. The starting range is 3.1 grains to 4.0 grains depending on the exact bullet selected. The Berrys Plated FP bullet has a starting charge of 3.6 and a max of 4.0 with an OAL of 1.06. That's the load data I'd use.

You can't compare RN OAL to HP or FP OAL. And in all cases the OAL isn't really the important issue. The plunk test and feeding tests determine which OAL you should run in your pistol. Published data just gets you in the ballpark if you are using the SAME bullet or similar. But still you need to check and confirm all data in your pistols. Generally speaking, the powder charge range for a 124 grain HP will be the same as for a 124 grain FMJ RN. but OAL will almost always be different.

"Reloading" really starts where the load manuals end. So far you've only been following recipes.

Welcome aboard !

OP, a chrono won't tell you how much powder you need to use or how much to cut back on your powder charge based on length changes. You need loading manuals and follow them for powder charge weights and COAL info.

You need loading manuals and follow them for powder charge weights and COAL info.

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This is great if the manual lists the bullet you are using and you can load the bullet to the OAL listed, sometimes you don't have info for your bullet, or you have to go shorter OAL wise due to a short chamber.
And even then the manual just reflects the data for the test setup they used. Your actual load for a given pressure may be lower or higher than what is listed.
That's why you work up to MAX loads.

The manual is a cookbook, sometimes you can follow the exact recipe, sometimes you have to improvise. Improvising without knowing what you are doing reloading unlike cooking can be dangerous.
Of course chronos don't tell you pressure just velocity. You have to sort of infer pressure form velocity (which is not ideal by any means) what the chrono can tell you for example is if your 124gr 9mm load is say 1200 FPS
you are probably up there pressure wise. TANSTAAFL


One way to go about it would be to figure out how much space the Berry 124 was taking up in the case.
How much is the Powerbond taking up in the case.
OAL matters for feeding OAL makes a difference pressure wise but that is because free case space is less with the same bullet at a shorter OAL,
less space in the case=more pressure=less powder for a MAX charge.
Making up numbers but if Bullet A has .25 of the bullet in the case with an OAl of 1.13 and Bullet B has .25 of the bullet in the case with an OAL of say 1.08
MAX charges are going to be very close. (same weight - different bullet hardness/dia/etc come into to play but free case space is a (the) big factor)

As mentioned the HP will have a shorter OAL than a RN.
I would maybe back off .1 for the start charge @1.09, not that short an OAL for a JHP.
Since Western does publish +P data for their powders you can get and idea of how much wiggle room you have. (even if you are not after +P loads)
I never cared for Titegroup (some people really like it) supposed to be spikey on top so if I was using Titegroup I might back off .2 to start.

I use a chrono all the time, to at least let me know if I am in the ballpark. If I am working up loads with one bullet, based on load data using another brand (but similar construction and seating depth) then I have a target max velocity in mind before I begin shooting them. If I reach that velocity at a lower than expected charge, I stop. No, it does not indicate pressure, but what else pushes the bullet out of the barrel? And before anyone says to look for pressure signs on the spent cases, you can't easily/reliably do that with low pressure rounds like 45acp or 38spl. Short of having a universal receiver and pressure measurement setup, measuring the velocity is at least a good indicator.

So do you need a chrono to work up a new load? No. But don't use the "velocity doesn't equal pressure" argument to convince anyone that there is no reason to buy a chrono.

An aside and FWIW; I usually tell new reloaders about my "Rule No. 1", I pay very little (no) attention to any load data from any forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads website, good intentioned friend, or gun shop guru. I got (get) 99.9% of my load data from published reloading manuals with an occasional, rare, check a powder manufacturer's web site. If I can't find a specific powder/load in one of my manuals, I figger there is a good reason, and one might be the component combination is not suitable for the cartridge. I have kept a log of my handloads, the results, and a few targets (both in a binder(s) and on my computer) since 1988 and now have a good load history for most of my guns and just need to check the log if/when I go back to a cartridge I haven't reloaded for a while, and new to me cartridges get load data from an up to date reloading manual(s). I don't post any of my loads and I ignore other's load data. I've been reloading, off and on since 1969 and I had a squib in '70 and no Kabooms, ever...

A good safe practice especially until a new feller has enough experience to develop his "BS Load Filter"...

1MoreFord said:

You need loading manuals and follow them for powder charge weights and COAL info.

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IMHO, this is not a true statement for all reloaders. The OAL in the load data is not a recommendation at all. It's more like the publisher has chalked off playing field and is saying "if you play within these boundaries, then you'll be fairly safe." Those who reload for eastern European handguns are routinely forced to shorten up on the quoted OAL by 0.04 to 0.07", especially when using conical bullets like the XTP. That is to say, the way the bullet interacts with the barrel always dictates the maximum OAL, not the published data.

1MoreFord said:

OP, a chrono won't tell you how much powder you need to use or how much to cut back on your powder charge based on length changes.

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Again, I must respectfully differ. When the OAL is foreshortened due to external requirements, then the chrono dictates the maximum powder charge based on the bullet velocity published in the load data's Max Load. One of the most important uses of the chrono is helping the reloader adjust the amount of powder up/down when bullets and OAL are altered. This since bullet velocity is giving the reloader the most accurate insight we can get into chamber pressure.
.

mofosheee said:

Power Bond 9mm 124 gr FP ... COAL to 1.09" ... Accurate #2, #5, #7 and Titegroup.

Question is how to calculate how much to step back the powder charges to remain safe?

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Welcome to THR

I use Power Bond bullets along with other plated bullets like Berry's, HSM, Rainier, RMR, Speer Gold Dot/TMJ and X-Treme. Power Bond bullets are thicker plated bullets (around .010"-.011" copper plating thickness compared to .004" for regular plated bullets) and are rated to 1300 fps as far as I know - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-3#post-10470195



As to RN vs FP nose bullet profile, look at the comparison picture above and notice bullet on the right essentially has similar profile as RN bullet on the left but is missing the tip. Bullet you are using is Power Bond RNFP (Round Nose with Flat Point tip) and while 1.150" OAL works with most 9mm RN bullets, you need to use shorter OAL with RNFP bullet to take into account of the missing tip.

Look at the comparison picture of RMR bullets below and notice the different OALs used compared to how the bullets are seated in reference to bearing surface (part of bullet that engages the rifling) sticking above the case mouth. The bearing surface sticking above the case mouth is what determines whether a round will "plunk" or not (Not contact the start of rifling when chambered).

mofosheee said:

My concern is that of making a compressed load.

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You can calculate whether you will compress the powder charge using a particular OAL with the following steps:

1. Determine the working OAL - In your case 1.090"
2. Measure the bullet length and subtract from OAL - This will give you max case fill
3. Subtract max case fill number from case length and using the end of calipers, measure down from case mouth and mark inside of case with tip of calipers (Don't worry, brass is softer metal than stainless steel)
4. Fill powder to line marked inside the case and weigh on scale
5. If max published charge is less than powder charge filled to line, you won't compress the powder charge

Sample calculation using bullet length of 0.540" and resized case length of 0.750" with Titegroup (But use your bullet length for your calculations):

1. OAL = 1.090", Bullet length = 0.540", Resized case length = 0.750"
2. 1.090" - 0.540" = 0.55" max case fill
3. 0.75" - 0.55" = 0.20" marked below case mouth.
4. When Titegroup was filled to line and weighed, I got 7.1 gr.
5. Since Hodgdon lists 4.1 gr as max charge for Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP (Thick Plated) bullet, I won't compress max charge using 1.090" OAL and 0.540" bullet length - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

Compensating powder charges when using shorter than published OAL/COL - Using shorter OAL than published will seat the bullet base deeper in the case and increase chamber pressure. When I am using shorter OAL (Deeper bullet seating depth) than published, I will compensate by reducing start/max charges by .2-.3 gr (depending on how deeper bullet is seated).

Below are plated and lead load data for 124 gr and 125 gr bullet (You can always reference load data for slightly heavier bullet) - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 124 GR. BERB HBRN TP Titegroup 1.150" COL Start 3.6 gr (957 fps) 27,700 PSI - Max 4.1 gr (1,057 fps) 32,700 PSI
• 125 GR. Lead Cone Nose Titegroup 1.125" COL Start 3.6 gr (1,002 fps) 22,900 CUP - Max 4.0 gr (1,096 fps) 30,400 CUP

Since you are using plated bullet with shorter OAL of 1.090" than published 1.125"/1.150", you can consider using 3.4 gr Titegroup as start charge and test 3.6 gr and 3.8 gr.

I hope this helped.

As to other powders, I would consider using Accurate No. 2 for lighter target load and and No. 5 for higher velocity load. Titegroup burns hot and violent and I prefer not to use it for 40S&W but like it for 9mm loads, even at near max charges.

Titegroup can produce accurate loads. Here are my 25 yard groups with Berry's 124 gr regular plated RN - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-pistol-reloaders.746062/page-2#post-9382933

While we are talking about different bullet profiles, I keep a spreadsheet with the dimensions (max plunked OALs in different guns, bullet length, etc) of all the bullets that I load. This way, I know if I substitute a different bullet, I can figure out where the base of the bullet will be when seated, and compare it to bullets I've already used. I will use that info to figure out how much to back off the charge for a new load workup.

There is also an online database of bullet lengths:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml

Walkalong said:

Yep, I log the diameter and length of pistol bullets in my excel log "book".

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Yup, I use a 3 hole folder, not the ring binder but the ones with the fold over pins. Every new load I make gets it's own separate page with all the pertinent info with plenty of space to add notes or impressions. It's been working well so far.

ArchAngelCD said:

Compressed loads are not usually dangerous. You see them more in rifle cartridges than handguns but they do exist in published data.

How far different bullets seat into the case can't always be measured by the COAL. Not every bullet has the same height and flat nose bullets compared to round nose will nowhere near seat as deeply in the case at the same COAL.

I would not recommend changing the load data by using your own calculations, again, start low and work up.

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^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^

There are a few powders that are sensitive to case volume sizes, TG is one of them. TG blew up a lot of guns early on before this became widely know. The cause was traced back to bullet setback in both 9mm an 40cal with these being high pressure rounds. Lyman even mentions this in their hand loading book, saying 0.050"? (maybe less) can double the pressure if at max load.