I like a light rifle with a very low power scope for a calling rifle. Currently I'm using a Kimber Hunter 243 with a 1.5-5x scope. But most the dogs I see are very close range coming from sage brush flats and they will surprise you if you are not paying attention! I think you would enjoy 2 specialized rifles vs one do-all
What smaller caliber do you recommend for predators to prairie dogs
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old heeler
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These are getting hard to find
https://www.greentophuntfish.com/berger-hunting-bullet-6mm-115-gr-vld-100-box.html
https://www.greentophuntfish.com/berger-hunting-bullet-6mm-115-gr-vld-100-box.html
Varminterror
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Some of the above sentiment is exactly why I all but gave up on Service Rifle matches. I love the game, but some of the personalities which insist it is the only way long range shooting is done just make it not worthwhile. Which is largely why it’s dying off.
Yes, it’s a lot more difficult to sling up and shoot - especially iron sights - with a sub-optimal 20” AR-15 system and try to deliver ~1moa groups dead center of the scoring black on a windy and poor visibility match day than it is to lay down prone in your front lawn with a ~20x optic on top of a 24” heavy barreled bolt rifle, resting on a front rest and a rear bag to have some fun on a sunny Tuesday after work.
Yes, it’s a lot more difficult to sling up and shoot - especially iron sights - with a sub-optimal 20” AR-15 system and try to deliver ~1moa groups dead center of the scoring black on a windy and poor visibility match day than it is to lay down prone in your front lawn with a ~20x optic on top of a 24” heavy barreled bolt rifle, resting on a front rest and a rear bag to have some fun on a sunny Tuesday after work.
Varminterror
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There are at least 8 long range shooting ranges I can think of here in Kansas I have been to myself, and at least 2 others I know of I have not attended. Plus any number of us who shoot long in controlled public or private property.
The Kansas Precision Rifle Club also has matches almost every weekend from March through October. There are a couple spots which do monthly Service Rifle matches as well.
If you’re 7hrs from the Flint Hills, you must be out west, I know guys who shoot long out there in at least two spots, whether north or south, and there are a few public land areas (dry river beds) where guys go shoot on “unofficial” ranges.
You just need to hook into a better network of shooters. There are LOTS of us shooting long range every weekend somewhere in the Sunflower State.
redneck2
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Aw come on. If you’ve read any of this you know guys are suggesting off the shelf varmint poppers
I wanna see someone hit a milk jug at 1k with 40 or 50 grain bullets out of a Swift or .222
I’ve got a whole lot of money I’d put on that
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Varminterror
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@redneck2 - that’s generally the experience most guys have, which makes them unaware of what these cartridges can really do. A 77smk out of a 24” bolt action 223rem is an entirely different animal than a 55 FMJ out of a 16” AR carbine.
But your sentiment is exactly why I posed the question I did - 6 creed factory rifles are available which will shoot factory ammo to the specs I cited, which is FASTER than I shot my match load all season last year with the same bullets, and faster than I will this coming season, and I haven’t had any issue delivering rounds on target past 1000yrds, even first round impacts, let alone the expectation a dude might have laying in his own front yard wanting to pop a milk jug.
The 6BR variants were over half of the field at the PRS finale this season,running bullets slower than 3000, no cartridge at all among them running a bullet faster than 3200fps for sure, and most not even running 3000 with 105-115 dtac’s, ELD’s, SMK’s, and Berger’s...
Lots of us like to make 1000yrds seem like some mystical and magical accomplishment, but in reality, it’s not really that exceptional. Walking a round onto a milk jug at 1000 yards with a few shots does take a proper set up and a capable rifle, but we’re not talking about shooting groups in the zeros and 1’s here, we’re talking about relying on statistics in a 1moa capable factory rifle landing a shot in the group instead of on the edge within a few rounds...
It’s a little more difficult to find the right combination of 22cal bullets to stay supersonic past 1000yrds than it is in a larger case 6mm, but it’s still a pretty common pursuit to shoot 1000yrds with a 223rem. Lots of videos online of guys doing it...
But your sentiment is exactly why I posed the question I did - 6 creed factory rifles are available which will shoot factory ammo to the specs I cited, which is FASTER than I shot my match load all season last year with the same bullets, and faster than I will this coming season, and I haven’t had any issue delivering rounds on target past 1000yrds, even first round impacts, let alone the expectation a dude might have laying in his own front yard wanting to pop a milk jug.
The 6BR variants were over half of the field at the PRS finale this season,running bullets slower than 3000, no cartridge at all among them running a bullet faster than 3200fps for sure, and most not even running 3000 with 105-115 dtac’s, ELD’s, SMK’s, and Berger’s...
Lots of us like to make 1000yrds seem like some mystical and magical accomplishment, but in reality, it’s not really that exceptional. Walking a round onto a milk jug at 1000 yards with a few shots does take a proper set up and a capable rifle, but we’re not talking about shooting groups in the zeros and 1’s here, we’re talking about relying on statistics in a 1moa capable factory rifle landing a shot in the group instead of on the edge within a few rounds...
It’s a little more difficult to find the right combination of 22cal bullets to stay supersonic past 1000yrds than it is in a larger case 6mm, but it’s still a pretty common pursuit to shoot 1000yrds with a 223rem. Lots of videos online of guys doing it...
CryptKeeper5
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I don't know how many of you have ever shot 1000yds...a measured 1000yds. In some matches the X ring is 10" or MOA as is the X ring at 600yds 6". The very, very best shooters in the country on some days will struggle to even punch 5 or 6 "X's" out of a 20 round match at either of those ranges. We're talking match grade .223's at 600(NO ONE shoots a .223 1000yds in any match because they just don't "work" ) and 6.5's, 7's, .308's and others at 1000. Most average and even above average shooters will struggle to hit a 10" target of any kind at 1000yds under real world conditions. I don't care what bullet you put on top of a .223...you just can't stuff it with enough powder to maintain velocity, and accuracy over and over again. 600yds is what almost every high power shooter considers the absolute max for it(so far as being consistent enough to keep it in the black)...and we'll try ANYTHING to split hairs. 1000yds is far enough to see your OWN bullet trace in your own spotting scope as it goes down range if you're quick enough...it's a LONG way and even guys with larger calibers on an even mildly windy day have been blown into the next target entirely. So expecting to pound away at 1000yds with a sporter .223 in anything but a vacuum is really unrealistic. As I mentioned...when Whidden showed up with a "little" .243...people didn't expect the results he got because even the much larger .243 is by no means considered a "long range" round in virtually any circle.
Obviously I may be jaded to match accuracy however, accurate shooting is accurate shooting no matter where the bullet terminates. Why settle for "just barely" when "good" costs no more, is as easy to shoot and handload for?
I don't consider being able to hit a milk jug sized target 1 out of maybe 5 or 7 times anything to write home about and unless you're shooting zero wind.. that would be optimistic with a .223 beyond 800yds using a relatively stock sporter. At that point...there's no doubt you need something bigger.
Obviously I may be jaded to match accuracy however, accurate shooting is accurate shooting no matter where the bullet terminates. Why settle for "just barely" when "good" costs no more, is as easy to shoot and handload for?
I don't consider being able to hit a milk jug sized target 1 out of maybe 5 or 7 times anything to write home about and unless you're shooting zero wind.. that would be optimistic with a .223 beyond 800yds using a relatively stock sporter. At that point...there's no doubt you need something bigger.
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CryptKeeper5
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Since I'm about the only one who's referring to match shooting let me take that one.
I've also kinda given up on service rifle and high power. I've also given up on it because of some of the attitudes I started seeing at not only local, but the national matches which I've attended for many years. The CMP and NRA have always been in a power struggle and THAT is what is really tearing match shooting as we once knew it apart. Going to Perry was like Christmas for many. Commercial row was our Sears catalog and many squirreled away money just to buy that new spotting scope, mat, jacket or whatever. Nowdays, it's become overtly political and there are many shooters like myself who thought the introduction of optic aid was the death knell....and it probably is. What separated "us" from many other shooters was that "we" prided ourselves on seeing eyes widen when stories of shooting 600yds with peep sights were told. I always say that I actually kinda feel sorry for the game I hunt because to me, using a scope is tantamount to cheating. I have no doubt that wherever those crosshairs or dots line up...my bullet is going and it's over. Shooting offhand at 200yds on a windy day and doing enough to at least not embarrass yourself I would consider a win sometimes and the time I was looking at a 98-8x but spoiled because I crossfired my last shot after "thinking about it" were always part of the "game". Now...it's really not too difficult to see average shooters attain their expert or even master cards. Good experts are now masters and high masters because of the changes. Just NOT the same sport really.
I personally have always strived to ensure I'm using the right tool for the right job. I don't like "good enough" whether it's shooting, "chasing the rabbit" on a foggy ILS approach to mins or making BBQ. Whatever it is...I strive for perfection and in this case, I just don't see anything under a 6mm approaching that level of confidence at that range.
Others obvious have their own standards and that's fine too...
BigBlue 94
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No no, I'm "like" 7 hrs from the one down by the Cimmaron NGL, where they also sell bison hunts. As far as public 1000 yd ranges, I know of none around the Topeka area, where I'm at. I have 80 acres, but it's the thickest 1/8th section of brush in the county. I have a 100 yard range set up, but that's all i have room for at the moment. I could barely hit the broadside of the barn at 1000 yards, let alone a milk jug.
I’m not talking match shooting, actually I didn’t even know that was a thing until. Joined this site about a year ago. I’m talking a hunting rifle that I can throw on my bench that has the capability to shoot 1000 consistently. And no , not 10 out of ten, but 2 out of 10 yes. To me it’s all about speed, bc, and moa. When looking at smaller caliber bullets, I just don’t see the bc needed to do this. That’s why I made the post, just looking for opinions. And keep em coming , I enjoy reading the different suggestions
robhof
Member
Another plug for the 223, got both a rifle and a 14" T/C pistol with that round, cheap ammo and good to 200+ yds, mine have taken many dogs in South Dakota.
CryptKeeper5
Member
Then that in itself eliminates the .223 and even the .243 under all but the best conditions with a very, very good rifle, scope and shooter.
You're asking a LOT to shoot "1000 consistently" out of even heavier calibers in all but the best conditions. I guess we all have VERY different definitions of "Consistency" and "Accuracy".
Again, if it's just a matter of throwing lead down range and hopefully hitting something you're aiming at...the .243 would be about a minimum at 1000. Wishful thinking with a .223 although much easier on the wallet to spray and pray with though.
In the end though, so long as YOU are doing what YOU like with what you have, what you want or what you can afford...that's what really matters.
Hold hard!
sarduy
Member
Remington 700 SPS Varmint in 223 or 308
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Something in 6mm ... 6 Creedmoor, .243 Win, or my favorite: .243 Ackley.
The choice of cartridge for prairie dogs depends on the ranges you plan to shoot, at least in my opinion.
When I started going out to South Dakota to shoot prairie dogs, I researched which round that I wanted to use. I decided that I would not expect to shoot much longer than 600 or so yards. 223 Remington was beginning to fall off pretty quickly at that range as did 25 grain 17 Remington. 204 Ruger with 40 grain bullets was a bit flatter than 223 Remington at that range so that is what I settled on.
I have a Savage 12 FCV and a 26" heavy barrel AR-15, both in 204 Ruger, that I use on prairie dogs.
My friend shoots 22-250 with 55 grain bullets and we kind of go toe-to-toe at 600 yards or so.
17 Remington may do better with heavier bullets but they were in short supply during the Obama years so I did not rely on them being available and have not worked any good loads. I do have a nice heavy barrel 17 Remington AR-15 that would be fun to shoot on prairie dogs. Maybe some day.
600 yards or so was my limit, not necessarily what we expected to encounter.
I have a light barrel 17 Remington bolt rifle that would make a great walk-a-bout rifle for coyotes. The barrel heats up and loses point of aim after three or four shots so it does not make for a prairie dog shooter.
If I were to expect to shoot longer ranges, out to 1000 yards, I'd go with a 6mm/243 diameter bullet, maybe up a bit larger than that.
Finally, my next prairie dog adventure planned for 2020, I plan to take a 22x6.8 AR-15, a 22 Nosler AR-15 and a 22 Bench Rest bolt rifle. It all assumes that I get to work on load development for the rifles. (So many projects, so little time)
When I started going out to South Dakota to shoot prairie dogs, I researched which round that I wanted to use. I decided that I would not expect to shoot much longer than 600 or so yards. 223 Remington was beginning to fall off pretty quickly at that range as did 25 grain 17 Remington. 204 Ruger with 40 grain bullets was a bit flatter than 223 Remington at that range so that is what I settled on.
I have a Savage 12 FCV and a 26" heavy barrel AR-15, both in 204 Ruger, that I use on prairie dogs.
My friend shoots 22-250 with 55 grain bullets and we kind of go toe-to-toe at 600 yards or so.
17 Remington may do better with heavier bullets but they were in short supply during the Obama years so I did not rely on them being available and have not worked any good loads. I do have a nice heavy barrel 17 Remington AR-15 that would be fun to shoot on prairie dogs. Maybe some day.
600 yards or so was my limit, not necessarily what we expected to encounter.
I have a light barrel 17 Remington bolt rifle that would make a great walk-a-bout rifle for coyotes. The barrel heats up and loses point of aim after three or four shots so it does not make for a prairie dog shooter.
If I were to expect to shoot longer ranges, out to 1000 yards, I'd go with a 6mm/243 diameter bullet, maybe up a bit larger than that.
Finally, my next prairie dog adventure planned for 2020, I plan to take a 22x6.8 AR-15, a 22 Nosler AR-15 and a 22 Bench Rest bolt rifle. It all assumes that I get to work on load development for the rifles. (So many projects, so little time)
Varminterror
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A 6 creed or 243 win fast twist will deliver the specs I cited, off of the shelf. That’s exactly why I asked what you thought the hyper-speed match gun was doing the normal speed shelf rifle could not.
redneck2
Member
My suggestion was a 6br
What is the advantage of the 6 creed over a 243? I really don’t see much at all.
Next question, let’s hear the brand that you’d run in a 243. Keep it under $1000, under 750,better yet. And no ar stuff, just a rifle. I was looking at weatherby vanguard, browning x-bolt, tika, savage, any others?
I’m not a real big fan of ruger or Remington, so leave them out.
Next question, let’s hear the brand that you’d run in a 243. Keep it under $1000, under 750,better yet. And no ar stuff, just a rifle. I was looking at weatherby vanguard, browning x-bolt, tika, savage, any others?
I’m not a real big fan of ruger or Remington, so leave them out.
The advantage of the 6 Creed is it's shorter case allows for the big heavies to be seated longer, rifles available are going to have the fast twist that's required to shoot the heavies. And factory ammo is available with 105-108 gr match bullets.
To my knowledge Savage has the fastest twist available for .243 off the shelf in that price range without going custom at 1 in 9.25. Can get to 1k with 95 VLDs but it'd work better with 105-108s.
Shilen makes a drop in 1 in 8 26" for Savage rifles, I've been thinking about buying a used Savage and building a Bolt gun.
Varminterror
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A factory 6 Creed is what a custom 243win has to be to be purpose built for 1,000yrds. Ready off of the shelf, no mag length issues.
Savage twist is 1:9.25 rem is 1:9.125 and ruger is 1:9 all will work for long range varmints, but to do it right and stay under 1000 with a .243, you'll be calling mcgowen, shaw, criterion, or Shilen for a savage prefit 1:8, buy a used savage 10,11,12,16 and sell the old barrel and stock, buy a Boyds at-1 and a new barrel will keep you under a thousand, then to really capitalize, start hand loading for it.
Chuck R.
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Not too too far from you:
https://www.spearpointranch.com/matches-and-training/firearms-matches/
Besides matches/classes they also rent ranges for $25 a day. In NOV Mill Creek Rifle Club ran the annual "Snipergeddon" elimination match from 500-1760 yards (Mile) in Desoto, KS. This year was a 2 day, small bores .223s-6.5s on Sat, big bores on Sun. Really was a fun and well run match.
To stay on topic......during the NOV Match, most of the .223 guys were out by 800yds, 1 made 1200, none placed in the top 30 shooters out of 114 entries. I placed 16th with a 6mm SLR running 105s at 3159 FPS out of a 26" Bartlein and I dropped out at 1500. The top 10 spots were dominated by .338s of some kind and a couple of 6.5s.
I shoot a lot of .223 (Rem 700, 20" 1:9) using 69 grainers on my backyard range out to 760, when the winds up (KS Norm) it's pretty challenging once you get past the 500y mark.
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