I was wondering if there was a reflex sight, under $400, that would handle my 450 marlins recoil? I bought the gun to use on bear and deer drives. I am not competent enough with open sights to hit a running target. I'm just looking for a sight that is easy to acquire a target and deliver accuracy reliably without a price tag as much as the gun.
Reflex sights for hunting?
- Thread starter Catlin
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Fine Figure of a Man
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Welcome to THR
Two that may work;
Burris Fast Fire 3
Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot
Two that may work;
Burris Fast Fire 3
Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot
Thanks, I was actually looking at the fast fire 3. What's holding me up is most everything I could find review wise was for an ar platform, but hearing that does make me feel a bit more comfortable at least trying it out. I'm definitely going to have to check out the primary arms though I haven't seen that one yet.
shoobe01
Member
Try to find euro review sites / hunting forums. Some of those stalking oriented guys (e.g. in Germany) are going to RDS on their hunting rifles. I gather, the ones they sell for this are rated to pretty stout stuff as I have seen them mounted to express rifles for dangerous game also.
One I have even owned is the Z-point. It is a civilian, hunting-oriented version of a Hensoldt-branded Bundeswehr-issued sight, with picatinny, weaver and some specialist mounting systems like for the Sauer 303 or Blaser F3. Here's one (not mine, promo photo) on an R 93 used in a driven hunt:
Another Zeiss dot I don't know about till now (the Victory Compact Point) mounted to a 9.3x62 rifle of some sort
Page from their brochure:
Aimpoint actually sponsors some hunters like the almost trick shot boar hunter Franz-Albrecht Öttingen-Spielberg, seen here with his Sauer 202 also on a driven hunt:
I suspect they, therefore, have high recoil specs on their stuff for this use case. Just need to find the right guys to talk to, since they don't have much business like that in the US.
One I have even owned is the Z-point. It is a civilian, hunting-oriented version of a Hensoldt-branded Bundeswehr-issued sight, with picatinny, weaver and some specialist mounting systems like for the Sauer 303 or Blaser F3. Here's one (not mine, promo photo) on an R 93 used in a driven hunt:
Another Zeiss dot I don't know about till now (the Victory Compact Point) mounted to a 9.3x62 rifle of some sort
Page from their brochure:
Aimpoint actually sponsors some hunters like the almost trick shot boar hunter Franz-Albrecht Öttingen-Spielberg, seen here with his Sauer 202 also on a driven hunt:
I suspect they, therefore, have high recoil specs on their stuff for this use case. Just need to find the right guys to talk to, since they don't have much business like that in the US.
ColtPythonElite
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Fast Fire III will hold up.
Varminterror
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With all due respect - red dots aren’t magic pills, if you can’t hit running game with irons, the red dot won’t really make it any easier.
redneck2
Member
Actually it might for older eyes that don’t focus as well as years gone by. I used to do quite well with irons, fifty years ago. No so much any more
I understand red dots are not magic, but as a shooter who has a hard time finding the sights the reflex or red dots allow me aquire the target faster and aim better. It makes it more like a scope with single point of aim without magnification. That's what I'm am used to that's how I am accurate. So I'm looking for middle ground between a scope and irons. my shots are close and in brushy areas he hence the bigger caliber rifle. The only middle ground I've found is a red dot or reflex sight, but if you feel there's a better set-up I'm open to suggestions.
Armored farmer
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I like my dot scopes. My vision was excellent until I got over 50. Now I get blurry on the irons. The dot scopes work good for me.
For this AR pistol, the unlimited eye relief is a factor.
Choose wisely, my son's Sightmark didn't survive his 3.5" 12ga Turkey gun.
For this AR pistol, the unlimited eye relief is a factor.
Choose wisely, my son's Sightmark didn't survive his 3.5" 12ga Turkey gun.
Varminterror
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@Catlin - if you’re having trouble finding the sights, you likely have one of two problems, or both.
1) Most common: lack of practice
2) Poor stock fit
If you shoulder the rifle with your eyes closed, open your eyes, and don’t find your eyes on the sights, you likely need to alter your stock.
Not saying anyone shouldn’t use red dot sights, but too many folks think little short cuts can prevent them from wounding game when flinging shots at runners.
1) Most common: lack of practice
2) Poor stock fit
If you shoulder the rifle with your eyes closed, open your eyes, and don’t find your eyes on the sights, you likely need to alter your stock.
Not saying anyone shouldn’t use red dot sights, but too many folks think little short cuts can prevent them from wounding game when flinging shots at runners.
shoobe01
Member
Red dots are a tiny bit of magic.
Remember the various times the Army (or DOD generally) has had big competitions to try to get the next big thing in small arms? Why did they do nothing with say the ACR program? Well, they did things. They found that optical and electro-optical sighting systems were great. Superior to any iron sights, even some new cool ideas like sight ribs in conjunction with irons.
So superior, that the baseline rifle (M16) with an RDS (at close ranges) and a low power scope (at longer ranges) achieved essentially all their goals for time on target, increase in hit rate, improvements of effectiveness of fire, etc. For both tyros and experienced shooters. IIRC, they didn't just toss guys with marksman badges into the course, but had AMU guys run it. Same improvements. No need to change bullets, guns, cartridge, add burst fire, or any other clever tricks.
So following this: the CCO (M68, mostly Aimpoint Comps) and the ... I forget the generic name, but TA-01 ACOG 4x. Army got mostly CCOs on (eventually) a common fleet of M4s, and a few ACOGs, USMC took almost all ACOGs as they stuck with the M16 for a long time, to keep their goals of accurate longer range fire.
Sure, other things are important as well, but more than almost anything else: better sights are better.
Remember the various times the Army (or DOD generally) has had big competitions to try to get the next big thing in small arms? Why did they do nothing with say the ACR program? Well, they did things. They found that optical and electro-optical sighting systems were great. Superior to any iron sights, even some new cool ideas like sight ribs in conjunction with irons.
So superior, that the baseline rifle (M16) with an RDS (at close ranges) and a low power scope (at longer ranges) achieved essentially all their goals for time on target, increase in hit rate, improvements of effectiveness of fire, etc. For both tyros and experienced shooters. IIRC, they didn't just toss guys with marksman badges into the course, but had AMU guys run it. Same improvements. No need to change bullets, guns, cartridge, add burst fire, or any other clever tricks.
So following this: the CCO (M68, mostly Aimpoint Comps) and the ... I forget the generic name, but TA-01 ACOG 4x. Army got mostly CCOs on (eventually) a common fleet of M4s, and a few ACOGs, USMC took almost all ACOGs as they stuck with the M16 for a long time, to keep their goals of accurate longer range fire.
Sure, other things are important as well, but more than almost anything else: better sights are better.
redneck2
Member
I know you’re a good shooter. There was a time 40 years ago that I would have gone head to head against you with irons and done quite well. That ship has sailed.
Uhhhh....here’s an idea. Take a sheet of clear plastic wrap and put it between your eye and the sights. See that fuzzy, blurry sight picture? That’s what it’s like without correction. And, the eyes don’t make the instant focus correction from rear to front sight to target.
I rate a Aimpoint highly and not just becaues they are made in Sweden
. I shoot driven game with my Mauser M03 with a Aimpoint 9000l mounted. The Aimpoint Micro is a great sight and pretty much bomb proof but so are all of the Aimpoint range. The rifle franz Albrecht is holding in the photo is a Merkel Helix mounted with a Aimpoint Micro. I think Merkel are his latest sponsor.
I've also got a Meopta 1-4x22 ir that is good for driven game on 1 power or can be changed to 4 power if the game is a bit further away.
Varminterror
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My eyes started going bad at 12, and then failed further again in my late 20's. I don't even pretend to pursue ANY task without glasses or contacts, even standing up to pee without my glasses is a high risk proposition, as bad as my eyes are when uncorrected. At the end of a barrel, I know there's a post on that fuzzy block which I assume to be the front sight base. So I don't need to simulate any bullcrap blind man game to obscure my sights - I'd just take off my glasses.....
But, that's not really relevant to the thread.....
I guess I missed the part where the OP pointed out she was getting older and her eyes were failing...................
Rather, she specifically stated she wasn't competent with iron sights, and then specifically stated she has a hard time finding the sights...............
So I'd reiterate - if someone can't find the sights, they're either under-practiced, or don't have a good stock fit. Stock fit is easily fixed, as is under-practiced. A red dot makes it a little easier to find your sights, a LITTLE, but an underpracticed shooter who has trouble finding their sights certainly should expect to have trouble placing their bullet on running game.
I don't have much tolerance for folks wounding game just because they don't care to practice sufficiently with their rifles - and sight acquisition is a pretty basic fundamental to be lacking.
Thanks I'll be checking those out.I rate a Aimpoint highly and not just becaues they are made in Sweden
The rifle franz Albrecht is holding in the photo is a Merkel Helix mounted with a Aimpoint Micro. I think Merkel are his latest sponsor.
I've also got a Meopta 1-4x22 ir that is good for driven game on 1 power or can be changed to 4 power if the game is a bit further away.
Burris has a great deal on a combo set right now. I've found both of these sights to be very good quality as with pretty much everything I've ever owned from Burris.
https://grabagun.com/bur-ar-332-w-free-faststrike-3.html
https://grabagun.com/bur-ar-332-w-free-faststrike-3.html
Choctaw
Member
I have red dots mounted on my ARs and on a 30-06. It looks a bit strange on the 06 but boy it really works. Anyway, my eyes aren't what they used to be and the red dots do keep me shooting.
wanderinwalker
Member
What's wrong with a simple low-power variable scope for your application? Scopes aren't just for having high magnification and zooming in on your targets.
Now I do have some questions that are going to make me sound rude and condescending. I apologize in advance but have to ask.
1) How are you going to practice with this. 450 Marlin? The ammo isn't cheap or easy to find so much these days. Reloading is involved I'd assume.
2) Why did you pick the .450 Marlin? Is this a recent acquisition? (Perhaps you aren't in the US so your options are more limited.)
The reason I say this is because I agree with Varminterror. Not being able to find the irons or the view through a scope is a sure sign of gun fit or scope setup issues, or a lack of practice. All are things that can be fixed but the reason needs to be identified so it can be addressed. There are no magic cures or short cuts here.
Also, spare me the vision thing too. I've had glasses since I was 12. I competed with the aperture sights on a 20" AR15, 1903A3 or a set of Redfield Olympics on a Winchester 52 for years. I'm near-sighted; front sights are nice and crisp but I'm not always sure which blurry blob is the target I want. Since passing 30 and finding 40 is closer I've started putting scopes on most of the rifles I own. It has greatly eased the workload on my optical system.
Having said that, the day I put an Aimpoint PRO on my AR15 carbine was a revelation. It did make it much easier to use the rifle. But I was already very confident and competent with it using the iron sights.
Now I do have some questions that are going to make me sound rude and condescending. I apologize in advance but have to ask.
1) How are you going to practice with this. 450 Marlin? The ammo isn't cheap or easy to find so much these days. Reloading is involved I'd assume.
2) Why did you pick the .450 Marlin? Is this a recent acquisition? (Perhaps you aren't in the US so your options are more limited.)
The reason I say this is because I agree with Varminterror. Not being able to find the irons or the view through a scope is a sure sign of gun fit or scope setup issues, or a lack of practice. All are things that can be fixed but the reason needs to be identified so it can be addressed. There are no magic cures or short cuts here.
Also, spare me the vision thing too. I've had glasses since I was 12. I competed with the aperture sights on a 20" AR15, 1903A3 or a set of Redfield Olympics on a Winchester 52 for years. I'm near-sighted; front sights are nice and crisp but I'm not always sure which blurry blob is the target I want. Since passing 30 and finding 40 is closer I've started putting scopes on most of the rifles I own. It has greatly eased the workload on my optical system.
Having said that, the day I put an Aimpoint PRO on my AR15 carbine was a revelation. It did make it much easier to use the rifle. But I was already very confident and competent with it using the iron sights.
jmorris
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In the dark red dots will help for sure. I use Trijicon quite often as well as Aimpoint. I have a number of others, as well as illuminated variable optics.
Even the lowly $25 red dot can withstand a lot of abuse though, eats batteries like a kid eats candy but one can buy a lot of them for the difference in price between it and “good ones”.
Even the lowly $25 red dot can withstand a lot of abuse though, eats batteries like a kid eats candy but one can buy a lot of them for the difference in price between it and “good ones”.
Gotta disagree, any optic is superior to iron sights. I'm sure there are some good dot sights that will work, but don't discount a standard low powered scope. Folks have been using them for decades before dot sights existed. A 1-4X20 scope set on 1X is faster to use than any iron sight and I find faster to get crosshairs on a target than a dot. Plus you have the option of moving up to more magnification for longer shots.
A quality 1-4X is going to be a lot less expensive than a quality dot sight. And while it is easy to see the dot in low light, the optics on most of the dot sights are much lower quality making it harder to see the target in low light. I've had dot sights in the past, but find a $200 1-4X20 scope superior to a $400 dot sight. They aren't that much bigger or heavier either. And if you must have a dot, many of them are available with a reticle that will light up giving you the best of both worlds.
Choctaw
Member
I'm a felony entry team member and none of us uses a low-power scope. We all use red dots because of fast target acquisition. Also, I am very, very capable with iron sights. I shoot at the master level with revolver, pistol, rifle and shotgun. I work in a very intense, very stressful environment. I'm not talking about plinking at the range with the boys. Not everyone is going to do things the way you do.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
It has been my experience, in the past 40+ years of deer hunting, that maybe 1 in 10 hunters has the shooting skill needed to take running game. Red dot sights won't change that.
wanderinwalker
Member
And I wasn't telling her what she wants to do is wrong. She says she's comfortable and accurate with a regular scope. Why not use a low-power scope tailored to the task at hand?
I also didn't say red dots were ineffective either. In fact I found my little AR carbine much easier to use with an Aimpoint on it. It IS a better option than irons, but it isn't a magic solution that you attach to a rifle and now can't miss using.
The statement of finding it difficult to find the irons in a hurry does make me wonder why is it difficult. Are they fuzzy and blurry? Add a scope. Do they not enter her field of vision? Something about the gun doesn't fit right.
Back to red dots not being a magic pill: dots simply don't work for some people's eyes. A lot of folks with astigmatism or other vision issues report dots appearing as all kinds of shapes except round circles. I see a slight coma. My brother sees a cluster of grapes. Others see multiple aiming points.
As for plinking with the guys, some of the folks I used to "plink" with have gone on to or come from shooting for things like the Army Marksmanship Unit or the Olympic development team in Colorado. A lot of them have awards like Distinguished Rifleman and Presidents 100 too.
Edited: one of my good friends is a retired detective who served on a felony warrant squad. I have nothing but respect for the guys and gals who deal with truly bad people on a daily basis.
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Armored farmer
Member
I agree totally. A little magnification is a good thing, and not having electronics to deal with is a good thing.
earlthegoat2
Member
I don’t use red dots. If I can find them in the quality and price I want to pay, I will use green dots.
In the end, I too prefer a low power scope.
In the end, I too prefer a low power scope.
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