New thoughts on LCP & pocket .380s

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TTv2

TTv2

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Went shooting today and brought the LCP Custom I own with to shoot steel. I've never shot steel with the LCP before, usually just paper, but decided today to try it as steel shooting is a different experience (I'm focused more on hitting the target than getting tight groups.

I have been really hard on .380 micro pistols and the LCP in particular due to the recoil and difficulty, but I shot the LCP so well today at 10-15 yards and the recoil wasn't bothering me like it usually does. That may have been because I was shooting the 60 grain polymer bullet, but after a couple of mags, I wasn't shaking like Michael J. Fox on Red Bull like I normally would.

What I did different was I shot 7 rounds a mag back to back, then shot something else to let my hand and wrist rest, and shot another 10 rounds after that at the end of my session. I did still get that weakness feeling in my hand after nearly 25 rounds, so I'm still limited with how much I can shoot, but the results were I got more hits than I expected at what is really the max distance for the LCP.

Now I'm wondering if a .32 ACP LCP would be a better choice compared to .380. It would certainly be easier to shoot 50 rounds or 100 rounds a session and the guns would last longer due to the reduced pressure and recoil, but for any situation where 7 rounds or 14 rounds would be needed, the .380 would be superior due to higher firepower.

I can't say with definition tho as .32's the same size and weight as the LCP and other polymer .380s are few and far between. Really that's only Kel Tec's P32 and the trigger for those isn't ideal.
 
Rather than look for a .32acp (which I have nothing against as I have two P32s), can you find a reduced load that brings the recoil down to something comparable to a .32acp? It might require a little trial and error with the recoil spring, but Wolff can set you up with that.

Just a thought.

I know the plethora of metal frame micro .380s are larger and heavier, but I found for the year I had my Sig P238 (HD model), the recoil felt far less than that from the much lighter P3AT.
If you're open to carrying a heavier and little larger pistol, the Sig P238, Kimber Micro and Colt Mustang would seriously tame the recoil of the .380acp
 
Snowdog said:
Rather than look for a .32acp (which I have nothing against as I have two P32s), can you find a reduced load that brings the recoil down to something comparable to a .32acp? It might require a little trial and error with the recoil spring, but Wolff can set you up with that.

Just a thought.
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My solution has been to shoot the lighter Inceptor ammo. Lower recoil, but also better performing bullet in soft tissue vs FMJ or hollow points that barely expand or expand so much they lack penetration.

I know the plethora of metal frame micro .380s are larger and heavier, but I found for the year I had my Sig P238 (HD model), the recoil felt far less than that from the much lighter P3AT.
If you're open to carrying a heavier and little larger pistol, the Sig P238, Kimber Micro and Colt Mustang would seriously tame the recoil of the .380acp
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If I'm going to carry a heavier gun, it won't be in .380.
 
TTv2 said:
My solution has been to shoot the lighter Inceptor ammo. Lower recoil, but also better performing bullet in soft tissue vs FMJ or hollow points that barely expand or expand so much they lack penetration.
Click to expand...

I intended to carry that in my Colt Government 380 but found the shop I usually buy from only had a +P version of it. Though my 80's era Colt can likely handle a limited amount of +P sans ill effect, I'd like to stick to standard pressure stuff. It looks like I'll have to order the non-plus P ARX online.

My TCP and Spectrum both use Lehigh Extreme Defender +P loaded by Underwood that feed and group well.

TTv2 said:
If I'm going to carry a heavier gun, it won't be in .380.
Click to expand...

I can't blame you, but of course with a more potent cartridge comes additional recoil. This might be counterproductive in your case.
 
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I have both LCP and P-32. I like the P-32 alot better. Again, .32 isn't anyones first choice in a gunfight but for light weight easy concealing the little guys are hard to beat!
 
milemaker13 said:
I have both LCP and P-32. I like the P-32 alot better. Again, .32 isn't anyones first choice in a gunfight but for light weight easy concealing the little guys are hard to beat!
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No, it's not, but when I can shoot .32 in a gun the size/weight of the LCP all day, I'm going to be a lot better at shooting it than a .380 LCP that I can only shoot about 25 rounds thru in a day.

But when at most for a serious defense use the most shots I'd be firing from the LCP is 6 or 7 rounds, it's not critical I be able to shoot a gun all day.
 
TTv2 said:
No, it's not, but when I can shoot .32 in a gun the size/weight of the LCP all day, I'm going to be a lot better at shooting it than a .380 LCP that I can only shoot about 25 rounds thru in a day.

But when at most for a serious defense use the most shots I'd be firing from the LCP is 6 or 7 rounds, it's not critical I be able to shoot a gun all day.
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I tend to carry my 32acps more than any other caliber because I find it easier for me to place quick consecutive shots on a concentrated area than with any other caliber I own. None of my 32acps though are as small as today's micro-pistols so I'm not sure if I'd feel the same if using a smaller one.
 
Have you tried a Hogue grip on your LCP 380? I find that it helps my shooting a lot. Feels great. And I have much more control. I can shoot for much longer than before.
 
What keeps with me at .380 for a minimum caliber is that one can buy ammo that performs to FBI standards in gel. I agree that they're a little tougher to shoot well and less comfortable for extended range sessions than a full-size pistol. That said, dropping down the LCP is pretty rare for me; only once so far this year.
 
A lot depends on the firearm used. Some will shoot the 380 very mild, others it is a harsh high five slap. And I believe some pistols were not made for the 380 but should have been designed in 32.
I carry a number of small 380's that are soft in recoil and handle the round very well. That said, I have really enjoyed carrying the Extreme light weight Keltec 32 this summer. And like the results of Underwood Defender Plus P.
 
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I've carried 380's since I got a concealed permit. I've had Ruger, Bersa, Taurus and Springfield. As far as something I can carry all day in a pocket, and be able to shoot a lot...the Springfield 911 has taken the top spot. Conceals as well as the Taurus or LCP II, is comfortable to shoot...and it is amazingly accurate, probably because it has sights that are actually useable.
 
have you tried putting your support hand index finger around the front of the trigger guard? might help if your left hand doesn't have arthritis issues.

luck,

murf
 
bannockburn said:
Have found the locked breech design of both the Colt Mustang and the SIG P 238 to work wonders at controlling and minimizing the felt recoil of the .380.

View attachment 856758

View attachment 856759
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I am a dedicated Pico, Kahr fan. But I have to say the Sig, Colt, Kimber are most definitely sweet shooters. And the way they feel in the hand is awesome. I think that Sig in your picture is down right beautiful.
Probably own one, but find the Kahr CM9 to be about the same size in weight and also because it is so mild to shoot.
Personally I believe the LCP and the Keltec 380 are two guns that should have been made in 32.cal. The Little 6 1/2 oz Keltec P32 is such a soft shooter and I doubt there are any guns out there that carry as light and easy. Sure has been handy this summer. And again the Underwood Defender Plus P seems in all respects to be a formidable defense round. JMO
 
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Ironicaintit

My P238 is a total pussycat, and lightweight, compared to my other 380, a Mauser HSc.
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My thoughts exactly!

One of the first guns I ever shot was my brother's Interarms Mauser HSc in .380. I was really surprised at how much that gun kicked for being as heavy as it was! Then I had an Astra Model 600 in 9mm. and that made the Mauser seem like a .22 in comparison to the felt recoil when shooting it!

When I got my Colt Mustang I was amazed at how comfortable and controllable a small, lightweight .380 could be with it's locked breech design. Some time later I got the SIG P238 to give the Mustang some time off in the CCW rotation.
 
From every thing I have gathered from the needs of the OP, or at least from what I can decipher. The P32 would be the ideal choice. Nothing but a easy and mild to shoot. And so dang light weight. Forget the LCP, for comfort, it is not going to happen. At least not for myself. And I have shot them probably more than most folks over the years. I later moved to the mild shooting Pico and Kahr and retired the LCP. Now I will say that after shooting the LCP for so many years and so many rounds, I did gain a kind of immunity to the recoil of the gun and the snap. However, when I do occasionally do go back and shoot the gun, it is like starting a ground zero again.
The Little Keltec is not a expensive carry gun. It is reliable, soft shooting and contrary to what the OP said, I feeling is it has a very nice trigger for a Pocket gun. The Trigger is a little narrow and I did put on a trigger shoe that they offer. And again, the Underwood Defender and Leheigh both appear to be game changers in the world of 32.cal. Parts are cheap to purchase, it holds 8 rounds of ammo which is a lot of holes. Sometimes, trying to fight a firearm is not the way to go. Go with the flow and get a gun you can handle and shoot often. Or, do like I did many years ago, force your way through the gun. But that takes time and a lot of ammo and range time.
 
I'm 75 so know some about sore stiff bones, I use a batting glove with my small pistols and rubber(hogue) grips seems to do the trick for me I can normally do a 100 rounds with out much problem. I see many older guys using wrist support, my thought is use what is necessary for comfort.
Perhaps because I've shot 40cal, 45 acp for years the small 380 does not seem to have a lot of recoil.
 
Ironicaintit said:
yeah, but not by much. Considering your issue.... If you havent tried one, maybe give it a whirl.

My P238 is a total pussycat, and lightweight, compared to my other 380, a Mauser HSc.
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I have a rule on .380 and it's don't spend more than $400 on one and if I'm going to buy one with a metal frame, it's going to be a Bersa.
 
TTv2 said:
I have a rule on .380 and it's don't spend more than $400 on one and if I'm going to buy one with a metal frame, it's going to be a Bersa.
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Well, to each their own.... I can only pass on my experience and preferences.

I did handle a Bersa Thunder a lot way back in the day, and found it to be a fun and reliable, fine handling fierarm.
 
I have to ink some of my thoughts on the matter of the .380. Whether you agree disagree is of little concern to me.
I am satisfied to carry my .380 because it is light, small, discreet and completely comfortable to carry...not because it is cool, or impressive or popular. In fact, my lcp is more suited for carry than combat. That is my choice.
I have taken the responsibility to practice more than enough to quickly put rounds in the black with it.
Remember, this is EDC, not HD, not combat, not hunting.
It is a tool like my pocket knife, except I use my pocket knife daily.
I hope and plan to not use this one.
 
When I decided to give pocket carry a try I bought an LCP Custom. I chose it over the standard LCP because it had taller sights and an aluminum trigger instead of a plastic trigger. I LIKED the idea that it had a long, stiff double action only trigger pull since it would be riding in my pocket. I've always looked at that gun as a contact distance firearm, certainly nothing more than 5 yards. The gun may be more accurate than that but not in my hands. A man's gotta know his limitations.

Just over a year ago I bought a Sig 938 Extreme. It's taken me a while to warm up to that gun but I've started shooting it more and have even been pocket carrying it using the Ruger supplied pocket holster that came with my LCP Custom. It's a tad small for the 938 but covers the trigger so it worked as a test mule. After carrying the 938 for a while I find it is almost as easy to pocket carry as the LCP. I'll be looking for a purpose built pocket holster for the 938 this week and will be pocket carrying that pistol more and the LCP less. During warm weather I'll pocket carry the 938, when the weather cools I'll either carry the 938 in an OWB holster or my Sig 225 A-1 in a belt holster. When I do that I'll probably drop the LCP back in my pocket as a BUG. I'll never get rid of the LCP nor will I stop carrying it altogether but I've decided the 938 is a better option for me most of the time.
 
My take is that my LCP is not a range gun but a tool for SD, when I cannot carry my Shield 9mm. I practice with it at least monthly, never more than 50 rounds. I hand load, my target loads will easily put 7 rounds in a playing card at 15 feet. That is all I want out of this weapon.
 
psyopspec said:
What keeps with me at .380 for a minimum caliber is that one can buy ammo that performs to FBI standards in gel. I agree that they're a little tougher to shoot well and less comfortable for extended range sessions than a full-size pistol. That said, dropping down the LCP is pretty rare for me; only once so far this year.
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Are they shooting it out of an LCP or some other gun with a 4" or 5" barrel to do those tests? An extra inch of barrel compared to the 2.75" LCP changes the ballistics considerably from what I've researched. 32 ACP out of a 4" barrel easily meets the penetration standards as well.
 
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