Pocket caliber extremes PM40 and LCP 380 - similar recoil

[CDW4ME]

Yes, I'm serious.
I'd noticed that the LCP 380 had more felt recoil than the 9mm Kahr PM9 or Glock 43; the 9's had less muzzle flip.
Taking pocket caliber up a notch, I got a Kahr PM40.
Shooting the LCP and PM40 back to back today resulted in similar perceived muzzle flip, speed of shots.
(Either kicks more than PM9/G43).
So if you wonder what shooting a Kahr PM40 or CM40 feels like, put a few rounds through a LCP / P3AT 380.

I shot 6 shot groups through a chrono (some I ran twice to confirm), results:
PM40
165 gr. Remington Golden Saber - 997 fps
180 gr. Remington UMC FMJ - 918 fps
180 gr. Federal Hydra-Shok - 944 fps
180 gr. Federal HST - 947 fps
180 gr. Speer Gold Dot - 950 fps

LCP: 95 gr. Ranger T - 889 fps

Lucky Gunner conducted tests in heavy clothed gel, with short barrel pistols:
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
My PM40 velocity is on par with testing velocity shooting Hydra-Shok and Gold Dot, either should expand after heavy clothing.

Ranger T 380 did not expand in Lucky Gunner test at 918 fps from a Glock 42, not likely at 889 fps from LCP.

A 180 gr. Gold Dot (expanding to .65) is much preferred (IMO) over a 380, especially when they have similar perceived recoil.

 

[bannockburn]

CDW4ME

Interesting comparison. I had a Kahr CW40 a few years back. Shooting 165 gr. ammo was fine with felt recoil and controllability but with the 180 gr. rounds, like the Speer Gold Dot, definitely had more felt recoil and noticed a lot more muzzle flip. Currently I have a Kahr CM9 and it's much more pleasant to shoot, especially with quicker follow-up shots, than the CW40 or my KelTec P3AT.

 

[CDW4ME]

The Remington Golden Saber 165 is a fairly mild load, calculated recoil = PF 165.
Federal Hydra-Shok 180 calculated recoil = 170

From my PM9
Federal HST 124 +P @ 1,120 fps = PF 139

Hydra-Shok produces the least recoil of the 180 gr. loads and its about 18% more than 124 gr. 9mm HST +P
No doubt, a PM9 has less recoil than a PM40

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Perceived recoil is an interesting thing. I've owned a TCP, which is by all accounts the same type of gun as the LCP, and a 709 Slim and currently a LC9s. To me, the 9's definitely have more felt recoil. The .380's are a little harder to hold onto IMO, but that's because there's not much to hold onto. And that can be perceived as recoil. But I have yet to shoot a "pocket" .380 that was more brutal in terms of recoil than a "sub compact" 9.

I can't imagine a .40 in either platform being considered on similar levels, regardless of ammo type.

 

[Tirod]

Taking it another direction - the LCP has more felt recoil than a CW380. The Kahr is more pleasant to shoot by far.

Both are delayed locking guns on the Browning design, so that's not it. Both weigh within fractions of an ounce loaded, not that. Both shoot the exact same ammo, not that.

It's how the separate designers worked with the lug and it's intended rate of unlocking. It's where recoil can be influenced by the delay which can spread the peak impulses out over a longer time frame making them feel less intense. It's no different that an manual action rifle vs a self loader, one can feel more abrupt than the other with it's unlocking cycle.

I recently purchases a S&W 4566TSW and one of the differences from the standard model is delayed unlocking to reduce felt recoil. It's all about ramp angles.

 

[1KPerDay]

Recoil is interesting. I can shoot an LCP all afternoon without issue.

 

[george burns]

My lcp "or I should say my wife's", kicks more than my Glock 26, which is still considered a sub-compact, or my PM-9, which I pocket carry, all of the time.Now in 40 the PM and the Glock are about tied with the LCP, but they don't really feel that bad with the larger grip, at least that's the way I find it. I just never like 40's, and I started out with snubbys in the 70's. So I am used to Horse power, like a S&W 357 J frame. But the 40 kind of twists rather than pushes like my 45's do. I got fed up with them about 7 years ago and sold them all.
With todays ammo, I would prefer the extra 2 rounds.And revolvers still to this day don't bother me, it has more to do with physical makeup. Some people have a low threshold for pain some don't, also it's how the nerves and bones in you hand are configured. That is why no 2 people feel exactly the same about a gun and can argue all day about such things. It's how it feels to you.

 

[CDW4ME]

My lcp "or I should say my wife's", kicks more than my Glock 26, which is still considered a sub-compact, or my PM-9, which I pocket carry, all of the time.Now in 40 the PM and the Glock are about tied with the LCP, but they don't really feel that bad with the larger grip, at least that's the way I find it. I just never like 40's, and I started out with snubbys in the 70's. So I am used to Horse power, like a S&W 357 J frame. But the 40 kind of twists rather than pushes like my 45's do. I got fed up with them about 7 years ago and sold them all.
With todays ammo, I would prefer the extra 2 rounds.And revolvers still to this day don't bother me, it has more to do with physical makeup. Some people have a low threshold for pain some don't, also it's how the nerves and bones in you hand are configured. That is why no 2 people feel exactly the same about a gun and can argue all day about such things. It's how it feels to you.

I agree, LCP kicks more than Glock 26 and PM9, about the same as Kahr 40.

I had someone reply on another thread that the PM9/PM40 was not a pocket pistol.

 

[CDW4ME]

Recoil is interesting. I can shoot an LCP all afternoon without issue.

About 50 rounds in a session is all I want with the LCP or PM40.

 

[george burns]

I agree, LCP kicks more than Glock 26 and PM9, about the same as Kahr 40.

I had someone reply on another thread that the PM9/PM40 was not a pocket pistol.

I have been carrying mine in my pocket for many years, so they are wrong about that. It's one of the smallest lightet 9mm you can find that is reliable enough to pocket carry. I don't wear dress cloths anymore almost ever.
I have a wedding coming up in 3 weeks and already planning which holster will fit in my dress pants, or will it fit . Wose case I use a remora and go iwb, or holster owb with an xds, with a leather bikini holster. I just wear my shirt out, in FL you can get away with it because of the weather. Like Hawaii no one really wears a jacket unless it's a big business meeting. But it works with Tactical pants, gym pants, "I owned a gym" so I have like every type there is, and jeans. So I would say that it's as pocket carryable as they get.

 

[CDW4ME]

I have been carrying mine in my pocket for many years, so they are wrong about that. It's one of the smallest lightet 9mm you can find that is reliable enough to pocket carry. I don't wear dress cloths anymore almost ever.
I have a wedding coming up in 3 weeks and already planning which holster will fit in my dress pants, or will it fit . Wose case I use a remora and go iwb, or holster owb with an xds, with a leather bikini holster. I just wear my shirt out, in FL you can get away with it because of the weather.

Cabelas 7 pocket hiker pants are dress clothes for me, tucked in shirt is work attire; I never tuck in my shirt except at work.
In about 6 years, I'm done with work and moving to FL, shirt never to be tucked in again.

 

[DeepSouth]

My PM45 seems to have less felt recoil than my PM40, in truth I believe it comes from the ability to get my pinkey on the grip. My wife's LCP is just to small for my hands, it's somewhat a pain to shoot in every way.

I had someone reply on another thread that the PM9/PM40 was not a pocket pistol.

I'd disagree, I pocket carry my PM45 most days.

 

[CDW4ME]

I had a PM45 a couple of years ago, was a good pistol.

 

[lobo9er]

I shot a LCP and found it pretty uncomfortable. My BG380 S&W on the other hand is a lot better in terms of felt recoil. The
LCP just didn't fit my hand at all. And I wanted the LCP but am happy with the BG380. I also owned the taurus which I found more comfortable than the LCP but had function issues so that got traded away.

 

[Jonesy814]

I had a Taurus TCP and sold it then bought a Ruger LCP. The Ruger is slightly thinner than the TCP and has more felt recoil in my opinion. Being thinner means all the recoil is concentrated in a smaller area. I'd rather shoot magnums out of my 2.25 inch Ruger SP101 than shoot that LCP!

 

[Shipwreck]

I will admit that the LCP is not a fun gun to shoot. But, after putting 200 rounds thru it initially, I shoot maybe 2 mags a year thru it. Every 6 months or so, I shoot the carry ammo in it, and then I replace it.

However, I had a Kahr PM9 for about 2 years - a few years back. I hated shooting that gun. I prefer the LCP over the Pm9, personally.