Why a Flintlock maybe what end up with in the apocalypse.

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Disclaimer:
This isn’t meant to be a discussion about the apocalypse itself. Eventually there will be one, maybe tomorrow, maybe a 100 years from now, maybe it will take another 10,000 years, but eventually there will be one. Will it be the end of humanity? Maybe, maybe not. The thing is none knows or will ever know the when where how or why of it, or if humanity will or won’t survive.

However, let’s look at some facts when it comes to using a gun when it happens, and it’s longevity.

Commercial production of all cartridge ammunition and its components will cease. Once we use up this ammunition, we will be forced to reload.

Projectiles: Individuals making projectiles, from lead, with nothing but a fire won’t be to hard to accomplish. Lead can easily be reclaimed from many different sources, melted down and reused many times. So having creating projectiles won’t be an issue. This item is one that we won’t run out of for a very long time, if ever at all.

Brass cases. Many can be used many many times, with a little care we will be able to use these for a log time. However, making new brass cases from scratch isn’t easily accomplished by an individual without a lot of equipment. So this will be one item we will eventually use up and run out of supply. Don’t know of anyone who can make their own brass cases currently, at least not in the home basement/garage/man cave.

Primers, percussion caps: This is another item, that isn’t easily and safely made in the home environment. It maybe something that can be made in very small numbers. But I do believe there would come a time where one would run out of primers/caps and even the stuff to make them with. Leaving us with no way to reprime our cases, or re cap our cap n ball firearms.

Gun Powder including smokeless and BP. Our supplies of smokeless would run out. Making smokeless at home, isn’t an easy task and isn’t safe. Making black powder is very simple to do, and can easily be done. Because of this, it is another item I don’t think we would ever run out of. Not unless we run out of the items that make BP in the first place.

Keeping all that in mind..... A flintlock is rather simple... flintlock to create a spark, BP and the projectile and we have a gun. No brass case needed, no primer or percussion cap. Thus when ammunition supplies run dry, when cases and primers and caps have all dried up as well, or have at least become extremely rare. The guns that will still be able to be used will be the flintlocks. As long as you can make BP, Melt lead, and find flint. Your good to go!

Crossbows and bows, will be the other flying projectile that one will always be able to use as well.
 
For all the artistry that can go into a flintlock, it is the most versatile of the muzzleloaders, especially a smoothbore. It is least dependent on manufactured parts like percussion caps. Heck, if it doesn't spark it can be used as a matchlock. Spears and archery are another avenue but I'm thinking of gunpowder weapons.

I don't worry about an apocolypse at my age. But my interest in colonial and early American history has led me to think about what gunsmiths on the frontier could achieve.

Jeff
 
This is why flintlock ruled the land for so long.

Yes Mauser production has spanned 3 different centuries so the AK will probably still be around in 100 years.
 
''I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.''
usually attributed to Albert Einstein

TEOTWAWKI, SHTF, WTROL, NRA... ''in before the inevitable lock'' LoL
 
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If you have a small lathe and some brass rod, you can make cartridge cases though the process is labor intensive. Shotgun shells are easiest.
It is possible but not easy to make brass shotshells with a drill press, a file, appropriate drill bits and brass rod.
Flintlock smooth bores - Flintlock fowlers - were the first guns made in America. They are marvelously versatile firearms.
 
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Not only can you make your own bullets, you can make your own rifle. (At least guys like Herschel House can.)
The Corps of Discovery survived the wilds of the early west for three years with their flintlock rifles. Wild animals and hostile natives, not to mention hunting their provisions.
Sealed lead casks full of gunpowder was a great idea.
 
The only way flintlocks would again be the height of technological sophistication would be if we were to somehow both forget how to build anything better, AND forget how to learn from what we've seen before.

Once one realizes a thing is possible the rest will follow. A lot of trial and error perhaps, but it will follow nonetheless.
 
Having worked in an extrusion plant I can say with certainty that extruding a brass case is not ever going to be a fun DIY experience. The much easier way to make a case would be with a lathe. In a situation where apocalyptic shortages were a real scenario then a brass case could easily be left a bit thicker which would be easier on drilling the case, and would make it last longer. The only downsides would be that it would not seal against the chamber until a higher pressure was reached, it would take some time and precision equipment, and it would end up being heavier than what we are used to, but brass can be smelted and shavings or spent/damaged cases reused.

I don’t see cases being an issue. Ever. And I agree with the premise that if a societal breakdown, or more likely somebody just decides to be totally alone and off the grid, they would be best served with a flintlock smoothbore.
 
Don't discount the value of the Girandoni air rifle brought on the Adventure by Meriwether Lewis. ;)
That’s a good point too. The maintenance of a air rifle is all in the leather seals for the air chamber. Leather could be found even after the gun failed by using other techniques. Scavenging, trapping, hunting by bow and arrow... seems Milosz air rifles would be more picky about projectile tolerance than muzzle loading flinters but still easily made to shoot adequately.
 
Yeah no, I used to do BP for hunting so the extra hassle cleaning was worth a few extra days of deer season.

you want a real TEOWAWKI gun? A 12 gauge double barrel of good quality.

A break open gun will handle shot shells too deformed to cycle in a pump.

Pair it with a LEE loadall II a couple of pounds of power and enough primers, buy a Lee slug mold and one for 00 buck and you”ll CYA ina realistic (not fantasy movie) way.
 
Disclaimer:
This isn’t meant to be a discussion about the apocalypse itself. Eventually there will be one, maybe tomorrow, maybe a 100 years from now, maybe it will take another 10,000 years, but eventually there will be one. Will it be the end of humanity? Maybe, maybe not. The thing is none knows or will ever know the when where how or why of it, or if humanity will or won’t survive.

However, let’s look at some facts when it comes to using a gun when it happens, and it’s longevity.

Commercial production of all cartridge ammunition and its components will cease. Once we use up this ammunition, we will be forced to reload.

Projectiles: Individuals making projectiles, from lead, with nothing but a fire won’t be to hard to accomplish. Lead can easily be reclaimed from many different sources, melted down and reused many times. So having creating projectiles won’t be an issue. This item is one that we won’t run out of for a very long time, if ever at all.

Brass cases. Many can be used many many times, with a little care we will be able to use these for a log time. However, making new brass cases from scratch isn’t easily accomplished by an individual without a lot of equipment. So this will be one item we will eventually use up and run out of supply. Don’t know of anyone who can make their own brass cases currently, at least not in the home basement/garage/man cave.

Primers, percussion caps: This is another item, that isn’t easily and safely made in the home environment. It maybe something that can be made in very small numbers. But I do believe there would come a time where one would run out of primers/caps and even the stuff to make them with. Leaving us with no way to reprime our cases, or re cap our cap n ball firearms.

Gun Powder including smokeless and BP. Our supplies of smokeless would run out. Making smokeless at home, isn’t an easy task and isn’t safe. Making black powder is very simple to do, and can easily be done. Because of this, it is another item I don’t think we would ever run out of. Not unless we run out of the items that make BP in the first place.

Keeping all that in mind..... A flintlock is rather simple... flintlock to create a spark, BP and the projectile and we have a gun. No brass case needed, no primer or percussion cap. Thus when ammunition supplies run dry, when cases and primers and caps have all dried up as well, or have at least become extremely rare. The guns that will still be able to be used will be the flintlocks. As long as you can make BP, Melt lead, and find flint. Your good to go!

Crossbows and bows, will be the other flying projectile that one will always be able to use as well.
I dare say this is a VERY interesting post.

In as much as we are thinking INSIDE the box !.

How about we [ men in general ] invent a whole new way to kill/shoot at critters & each other ?.

A combination between a bow,gun,atlatyl,missile,!

Remember that 'we' took a while to go from BP and flint,to percussion caps and then cartridges.

Not sure where it would go,but necessity is THE mother of invention !!.
 
They found edible honey in the Egyptian tombs. I bet there will be viable 7.62x39 ammo is 300 years.

I bet there will be AK-47s in use in 2120 in some countries.
Long been my assumption, and gripe for near-term post-apocalyptic fiction. There's a hell of a lot of ammo around. Even in fairly gun-free countries, there are armies, police forces, game wardens, etc.

If it's such the end of the world that there's no manufacturing better than what you have at home, there are no people either. So lots of the current inventory to go around. Think that wars cause all ammo to be used up? Check out how much (say) WW2 production stuff is still available and functional, 80 years on. Starting to dry up, in a civilized, supply-chains, shooter culture, just sorta now.

Someplace like the US where everyone has guns, you could scavenge ammo a half box at a time from every other farmhouse for decades, even if you didn't manage to find a case —or pallet — at an abandoned base, or the back of a truck at some fight location. If you don't practice anymore, how long does 800 rounds of 5.56 last you? A long, long time even if you hunt periodically. Some is probably passed down to your kids.

Ammunition lasts /forever/ under even remotely reasonable conditions. Hard agree that if everyone disappeared from earth today, you could wake up from your cryo freezer in a couple hundred years and almost all the ammo not actually underwater or on fire at some point would work.


And the airgun point is also a very good one.
 
I always think my last ditch efforts would be .22LR and that 12 GA double with some brass hulls. As long as primers held out the shotty would be usefull. Just how long would you be able to go with 5K LR primers and 50 brass hulls. Add to that how many rounds of .22LR and 50 shotshells/primers can one easily carry as opposed to 357/9MM/ 44 MAG, etc.
Also scrounging the most common two calibers will be so much easier than the less common.
 
they would be best served with a flintlock smoothbore.

Why a smoothbore? If the apocalypse starts I'm looking at a rifled barrel for better accuracy. I can see later on when people are making their own that a smoothbore would come back into existence, but rifling is a known advantage and some would look to still incorporate it.
 
If you can scrounge up a copy, there is a pretty good discussion of such in an old science fiction book--Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen.

Essentially, H. Beam Piper puts a modern circa 1950's PA State Trooper into an alternative future relying on the so-called Many Universes theory. The society that the displaced man is thrust into is stuck at the more primitive end of blackpowder weapons. Thus, you get a substantial education in both military tactics @1500-1600's, problems involved in producing and fielding blackpowder arms, rifles, cannons, etc. Piper was a careful student of military history and firearms and applied it here.

H. Beam Piper was a noted firearm collector and wrote a mystery called Murder in the Gunroom that directly taps his knowledge of firearms (you can find that on Project Gutenberg for free). If I recall the facts correctly, the plot revolves around a rare Confederate made revolver in the deceased collector's stash. Not as entertaining as Lord Kalvan but he discusses a number of firearms in the book.
 
Leather seals in airguns outlast synthetic seals in airguns.

I'm reminded of this every time one of my modern airguns needs a seal replacement. Usually not noticed by me until I need to use that particular airgun again. What's that effin' hissing sound? Why did the pellet arc so effin' much this time? :D

So, another dark age is upon us? Give me a cartridge shooting firearm every time. I don't have to bother with seals, or flints, or matchcord. At least an airgun will fire consistently in a downpour compared to flint or matchcord fired guns, but so does a cartridge firearm.

I don't think many of us would blast through our existing ammo supply at the same rate we do now. How long would 5000 rounds last if every cartridge had a purpose other than target shooting?

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