Best authentic SAA clone

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.38 Special

.38 Special

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I recently overheard a bit of a debate at the gun shop and was surprised to realize I didn't have an answer. Once upon a time I would have said "USFA", but at the moment I don't actually know if anyone is making a high quality copy with a hammer-mounted firing pin, four clicks, etc.
 
Standard Mfg. Co. - outstanding fit and great case coloring. All screws fire blued and timed/qualified, that's ALL screws even the backstrap and trigger guard - they also offer Law Enforcement, First Responders, and Military Personnel special discounts through their distributors.
And they shoot!
Std range report 16 May 19-01.JPG
Edit ... better pics
Std 20 May_06.JPG stdm-13a.JPG

I also have a nickel 44-40 on the way.
 
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ArkieVol said:
Standard Mfg. Co. - outstanding fit and great case coloring. All screws fire blued and timed/qualified, that's ALL screws even the backstrap and trigger guard - they also offer Law Enforcement, First Responders, and Military Personnel special discounts through their distributors.
And they shoot!
View attachment 925252

I also have a nickel 44-40 on the way.
Click to expand...

Gorgeous gun! I really dig those tiger striped grips.
 
Jim Watson said:
Colts are over $2000
Click to expand...

For $200-$300 I think I'd rather just get a Colt.
Word is they are making the best SAAs they've ever made right now.
Of course, you have to wait a while, but patience is a virtue.

If I didn't have over $2k to spend (which I don't), I'd get an Italian made clone and not think twice. Of course the fit and finish won't be what a Colt or Standard Manufacturing gun would be, but they make great stuff.
You can still find the accurate replicas too, with the hammer mounted firing pin and get the 4 clicks. I believe the Uberti Frontier is still made this way. At least it was pretty recently.
 
Howdy

Best authentic SAA clone is a moving target.

There were dozens of minor changes over the years to the Colt Single Action Army design. Rifling groove depth, firing pin shapes, cylinder bevel shape, rear sight shapes, cylinder pin retention method, to name just a few off the top of my head.

Exactly what year are we talking about trying to duplicate? Frankly, I think it is a pointless exercise to try to define what is the most authentic copy when there were so many design changes over the years.

And I fail to understand why so many shooters are hung up over how many clicks there are when the hammer is cocked.

Let me lay my cards on the table. I am lucky enough to own four 2nd Gen Colts, two 1st Gens, and a New Frontier. I guarantee you when I am shooting them I cannot hear the clicks. Not with my earplugs in. Even if I could hear them, the sound would be a blur. You cannot hear four separate clicks unless you cock the hammer very slowly. If I am shooting, I never cock the hammer that slowly. The only time anybody can actually hear the four separate clicks (and depending on the timing and how slowly you cock the hammer there may actually be five clicks) is when you are playing around with it late at night pretending to shoot bad guys on the TV. Those real slow, deliberate four clicks you hear in the movies are just that. Movies. In real life, nobody cocks the hammer that slowly.

So pardon me for being a wet blanket, but The Most Authentic SAA Clone simply is not a concern with me. Yes, I have had Ubertis in the past, still have one. Yes, it has four clicks. And I could point out several details of how it differs from a real Colt.
 
Pietta makes nice Colt replicas. Don’t know about the quality of the steel. Mine have been flawless so far. The color case is chemical though.
 
If you have an ear and attention for the “4 clicks”, they can be heard. I have 3 USFA’s that seem to be on the heavy “sprung” side and the clicks are very audible. I like to hear the clicks but I do not require a daily dose of OxyContin if not heard - part of the mystique and flavor of the piece. People enjoy their firearms differently and for different reasons.
 
Thanks for all that.

The Standard Manufacturing guns look pretty good. I must have been living under a rock!
 
Arkansas Paul said:
For $200-$300 I think I'd rather just get a Colt.
Word is they are making the best SAAs they've ever made right now.
Of course, you have to wait a while, but patience is a virtue.

If I didn't have over $2k to spend (which I don't), I'd get an Italian made clone and not think twice. Of course the fit and finish won't be what a Colt or Standard Manufacturing gun would be, but they make great stuff.
You can still find the accurate replicas too, with the hammer mounted firing pin and get the 4 clicks. I believe the Uberti Frontier is still made this way. At least it was pretty recently.
Click to expand...

I had been under the impression that each generation of Colt SAA was worse than the previous one. Is that no longer the case?
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
Howdy

Best authentic SAA clone is a moving target.

There were dozens of minor changes over the years to the Colt Single Action Army design. Rifling groove depth, firing pin shapes, cylinder bevel shape, rear sight shapes, cylinder pin retention method, to name just a few off the top of my head.

Exactly what year are we talking about trying to duplicate? Frankly, I think it is a pointless exercise to try to define what is the most authentic copy when there were so many design changes over the years.

And I fail to understand why so many shooters are hung up over how many clicks there are when the hammer is cocked.

Let me lay my cards on the table. I am lucky enough to own four 2nd Gen Colts, two 1st Gens, and a New Frontier. I guarantee you when I am shooting them I cannot hear the clicks. Not with my earplugs in. Even if I could hear them, the sound would be a blur. You cannot hear four separate clicks unless you cock the hammer very slowly. If I am shooting, I never cock the hammer that slowly. The only time anybody can actually hear the four separate clicks (and depending on the timing and how slowly you cock the hammer there may actually be five clicks) is when you are playing around with it late at night pretending to shoot bad guys on the TV. Those real slow, deliberate four clicks you hear in the movies are just that. Movies. In real life, nobody cocks the hammer that slowly.

So pardon me for being a wet blanket, but The Most Authentic SAA Clone simply is not a concern with me. Yes, I have had Ubertis in the past, still have one. Yes, it has four clicks. And I could point out several details of how it differs from a real Colt.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand. I am not looking for "most authentic". I used the word "authentic" - along with examples such as hammer-mounted firing pins and the "four clicks" - simply to differentiate between Colt-style guns and things like the Ruger Vaquero.
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
I guarantee you when I am shooting them I cannot hear the clicks. Not with my earplugs in. Even if I could hear them, the sound would be a blur. You cannot hear four separate clicks unless you cock the hammer very slowly.
Click to expand...
I agree that at the range or whenever you're shooting them you won't "hear" the click, but you can still feel them, unless you're fanning or slapping the hammer. I have four click SAA clones and I have a Ruger Vaquero, you can feel the difference. The Vaquero is a simple long pull. The Uberti, or Pietta or ASM all have a "notched" feel. A totally different feel.

That's not to say one is better then the other, just a different feel. Personally I like the 4 click feel.
 
If the number of clicks, style of firing pin, and the word "authentic" don't describe the essence of your question, what does? IOW, if a Vaquero isn't a suitable "clone", what features or characteristics are necessary?
 
.38 Special said:
I had been under the impression that each generation of Colt SAA was worse than the previous one. Is that no longer the case?
Click to expand...

I can tell you from experience that the 2nd Gens often had chamber throats that were a little bit oversized. Other than that, I find no difference in quality between the 1st Generation (1873 until 1940) and the 2nd Generation (1956 until 1975). I have no 3rd Gens (1975 up to the present), but I know that early 3rd Gens had some problems with fit and finish. That all got straightened out quite a while ago. I know a few guys who have 3rd Gens, and they look fine to me.
 
Arkansas Paul
If I didn't have over $2k to spend (which I don't), I'd get an Italian made clone and not think twice. Of course the fit and finish won't be what a Colt or Standard Manufacturing gun would be, but they make great stuff.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much how I feel about it. Sure I would love to have a Colt SAA or one from Standard Manufacturing but let's face it, at this stage of my life it's probably not going to happen. I am quite content with my Ruger Vaquero, ASM Hartford Model, and my Beretta Stampede for fulfilling my single action hankering!
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ArkieVol said:
All screws fire blued and timed/qualified, that's ALL screws even the backstrap and trigger guard
Click to expand...

Howdy

It's interesting you mentioned that.

I must admit that before Standard Mfg Co came out with their version of the SAA I had never heard off screws being timed/qualified.

Did not even know what it meant, I had to look it up.

As I understand it, this means that when the screws are torqued down the slots are all lined up the same way. Horizontal in this case.

This is not a feature on Colts.

A pair of 2nd Gen Colts that shipped sometime in the 1970s, as I recall. Notice how the screw slots are oriented randomly.

plDFhbrKj.jpg




Another pair of 2nd Gen Colts. The top one shipped some time in the 1970s, the bottom one about 1968. Notice how the orientation of the screw slots is random.

pn6KOclMj.jpg




A 1st Gen Bisley model from about 1908 or so. I suspect the fire blue of the screws is not original, but the rest of the finish is. Again, the orientation of the screw slots is random.

pnlSkZw6j.jpg




This 1st Gen Bisley also shipped around 1908 or so. The screw slots all point more or less the same direction, but they are not horizontal. I suspect this is just chance that they line up more or less the same.

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A Colt New Frontier. Random orientation of the screw slots.

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A Colt Richards Conversion. Random orientation of the screw slots.

pl5OzbfIj.jpg




So I guess having all the screw slots on the Standard Mfg Co SAA replica line up the same is a nice touch, but as far as I know, it is not a feature that is authentic to a Colt.

Having some experience with CNC machining, I suspect making this happen is fairly simple to do on a CNC miller. The tap has to bite into the steel at the exact same orientation each time, so the screws will all line up the same. The traditional way to thread tapped holes is the tap comes down and enters the metal in a random orientation. Where ever the tap happens to bite the steel as it is lowered to the metal, is where the thread starts, so the orientation of the screw slots winds up being random. I suppose each screw could be made extra long, then marked and removed so slots could be cut so they will be horizontal when torqued down, but I have never seen that done on any production revolver. Slots just wind up oriented randomly.
 
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Driftwood Johnson said:
I suppose each screw could be made extra long, then marked and removed so slots could be cut so they will be horizontal when torqued down, but I have never seen that done on any production revolver.
Click to expand...
It could be done with selective assembly (trial and error) from a large bin of randomly-threaded screws.
 
AlexanderA said:
It could be done with selective assembly (trial and error) from a large bin of randomly-threaded screws.
Click to expand...

I suppose so, but a whole lot of time would be spent screwing in each screw and then removing it until the 'correct' screw was found. Time is money in all things, and trying a whole bunch of screws would be an expensive process.

I suspect it is more a function of modern CNC machining. It is probably fairly simple to program a CNC machine to feed a tap down at a certain feed rate, and start it spinning at the same moment over and over again. Screws can be made on a modern screw machine so all the slots line up the same with regard to the threads. That way, time is not wasted trying a bunch of screws until just the right set is found.

Just so we are clear, the traditional way to tap screw holes on a miller or a drill press is with a tapping head with a clutch in it. The tap is spinning all the time. When it first bites into the metal, the tap pulls itself into the hole and cuts the threads. When tap reaches the bottom of the hole, the clutch kicks in and stops the tap from spinning so it does not break. Then the operator, or the CNC machine withdraws the tap from the work piece. Holes tapped this way will have the thread 'start' in a random orientation.
 
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