Tell me about the Sig Hammerli pistols

You are talking about the P240?
Because all others I do know are either SIG or Hämmerli.

Swiss SIG P210's were imported into Germany by Hämmerli Tiengen and can also be considered SIG Hammerlis. In my experience the Swiss guns, whether it's a P210 of some kind, Hämmerli, or a P240 are very well made and hold up well - maybe with the exception of the P240 in .38 Special WC. The P240 in .38 had a bad reputation among shooters.

SIG Neuhausen and Hammerli Lenzburg, the original manufacturers, are no longer supporting the guns.

MarshallDodge

Do you mean something like the Sig-Hammerli Trailside? I have one, the 4" barrel and fixed sights version, and it's very accurate with a truly light trigger. I use mainly Wolf Match Target and CCI Standard Velocity ammo with it.

I bought a Trailside some years back when they were first introduced to the US, and sold it when I realized that the aftermarket support just wasn't there for things like grips. It was a decent enough gun, similar to my Buckmark in finish and accuracy (offhand range use) and such.

As far as I know, Sig hasn't imported the Trailside for more than a decade.

PzGren said:

Swiss SIG P210's were imported into Germany by Hämmerli Tiengen and can also be considered SIG Hammerlis. In my experience the Swiss guns, whether it's a P210 of some kind, Hämmerli, or a P240 are very well made and hold up well - maybe with the exception of the P240 in .38 Special WC. The P240 in .38 had a bad reputation among shooters.

SIG Neuhausen and Hammerli Lenzburg, the original manufacturers, are no longer supporting the guns.

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Why should P210 be considered "SIG / Hämmerli" because only because Hämmerli was at some timettime company that imported them to Germany??
P210 (Swiss made) were made by SIG.
The new models (made in Germany) are made by SIG Sauer.
P240 is SIG + Hämmerli as far as it goes.
And like all other pistols in 38special Wadcutter only (and some 22lr) it's finicky with ammo.
Like all other pistols in 38 special Wadcutter.

I have a Sag Hammerli P240, but it only has 100 rounds down its barrel, so can't really comment yet on function, reliability or support. Also have a Benelli MP3S in .32 S&W Long WC and a couple of model 52s in .38 WC. Not sure that Benelli is supporting pistols any more, though Smith is. All three are finicky about ammo.

I also have a H&K Fabarm Lion I shotgun. H&K was the importer, but Fabarm is now part of Caesar Guerini and they DO NOT SUPPORT those imported by H&K. Will be interesting if I need anything in the future for the P240.

Bob

MarshallDodge

Well new Trailside magazines go for around $35 a piece from Larry's Guns Inc. (now part of Red Feather Outfitters), so that's $140 right there. So $360 for the gun is a pretty good price. If you can, be sure to check out the magazines if they're plastic as sometimes the magazine lips can get chewed up. There is also a problem with some of the guns in that there's a vertical post as part of the trigger guard that acts as the slide stop when it recoils back. If it's not fitted properly it can eventually break (the good news here is that replacements are available at Larry's Guns Inc.). There are a number of informative posts about this at rimfirecentral.com. Let us know how it goes.

MarshallDodge

SIG hasn't supported the Trailside in many years. Hammerli makes the X-Esse which is a slightly improved version of the Trailside and your best bet for parts and service would be larrysguns.com.

Walther makes this pistols (x-esse) s ince 2006.
Before Walther they were made by Hämmerli.
They share some similarities with older Hämmerli models (208 215) but IMHO they don't come even close.
The non-moving slide of the older models is far superior. But that may be my point of view.

MarshallDodge said:

the Trailside is what I was referring to. Is a field grade model in very good condition worth $500? It comes with five mags.

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Gunbroker says that the price is good.

call1911 said:

Why should P210 be considered "SIG / Hämmerli" because only because(???) Hämmerli was at some timettime (???) company that imported them to Germany??...

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Because they are marked Hammerli, Tiengen.

call1911 said:

P240 is SIG + Hämmerli as far as it goes. .

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So they were made in both factories, is that what you are saying???

PzGren said:

Because they are marked Hammerli, Tiengen.



So they were made in both factories, is that what you are saying???

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You can mark whatever you want when you import it.
Look at all the SAA replicas that are sold in the USA and are made in Italy.
All the companies that import them to the USA print the most fancy names on it. But in the end they are UBERTI revolvers.

But they were made by SIG and not by Hämmerli.
Let's say you live in USA and drive a Volkswagen.
The company that imported your car is (purely invented here) "Miller cars".
Use it now a Volkswagen/Miller???
No way it is.
It's still a Volkswagen.
But you can read it all at Wikipedia if you don't believe it.
Hämmerli never built any P210.

It's like the Korth revolvers sold under the Nighthawk label now. All those wheelguns are made by Korth in Germany. None are made by Nighthawk.

With the P240 there sure were both factories involved. SIG for the 9mm parts and Hämmerli for it's knowledge and expertise in the 22lr parts.

You can write me personally if you feel you need to. But let's quit this nonsense here because it got nothing to do with what the OP asked about.

Now my text got all mixed up.
One should not write anything on smart phones.

call1911 said:

It's like the Korth revolvers sold under the Nighthawk label now. All those wheelguns are made by Korth in Germany. None are made by Nighthawk.

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The Air Marshall is not importable, it was not made in Germany nut manufactured in the U.S.A!

https://kfarmory.com/shop/nighthawk-custom-korth-sky-marshal-9mm-revolver/

It's true, Korth manufactured the parts, I saw them in their lobby. I also have talked to Korth's CEO at that time.



From Wikipedia
"Between 1970 and 1975, SIG purchased Swiss-based Hämmerli AG as well as the German-based Hämmerli in Tiengen"

Hammerli in Tiengen manufactured, respectively assembled the 120. I had talked to one of their old gunsmiths, that is now working for Walther, Ulm, when I needed parts for my 120.

call1911 said:

You can mark whatever you want when you import it.

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Not true. Federal law and ATF regs require the firearm to be marked with the manufacturers information as well as the name and city of the U.S. importer.

Look at all the SAA replicas that are sold in the USA and are made in Italy.
All the companies that import them to the USA print the most fancy names on it. But in the end they are UBERTI revolvers.

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And............."Uberti" is rollmarked somewhere on that firearm.

Let's say you live in USA and drive a Volkswagen.
The company that imported your car is (purely invented here) "Miller cars".
Use it now a Volkswagen/Miller???
No way it is.
It's still a Volkswagen.

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When referring to a foreign firearm imported into the US it's common to put a "/" between the manufacturers name and the US importer.
ATF requires licensees to record both in our bound books.
Examples:
FN/Browning
Uberti/Benelli, Uberti/Cimarron, Uberti/Taylors, Uberti/Stoeger
Miroku/Browning
Beretta/Beretta USA
Walther/S&W
Tanfoglio/EAA

It's like the Korth revolvers sold under the Nighthawk label now. All those wheelguns are made by Korth in Germany. None are made by Nighthawk.

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And................."Korth" is stamped on every single one.

ATF is very specific about how an imported firearm has to be marked after 2002 and as dogtown tom has stated, manufacturer and importer - as well as calibre, model, country of origin and serial number - have to be permanently engraved on the firearm in a conspicuous way. I know, I am an FFL08 and licensed firearms importer with ATF. Yet, the main point is that Hammerli, Tiengen was more than just the importer and responsible to comply with the proofing laws, mandated by CIP membership, they manufactured some guns and accessories.

Fact is, that Korth, Lollar was'n't familiar with the U.S. import regulations and the point system until I pointed it out to their CEO, Mr. Weber. The Air Marshall with the 2" barrel is not importable as a whole gun under the GCA, minimum barrel length for a revolver is 3".

call1911 is probably trying to make friends here by asking me to write him personally.

Ta! Got enough friends, don't need any more.
Maybe what I really meant was lost somewhere in my knowledge of the English language - it's not my native language.

Or maybe you don't want to understand?

My intention was to offer you to discuss this interesting matter not in the OPs thread but somewhere else.
But meanwhile I saw that you have your knowledge about a Swiss gun from some badly translated webpages.
You see, there's nothing to learn for me from your second hand knowledge

PzGren said:

..... The Air Marshall with the 2" barrel is not importable as a whole gun under the GCA, minimum barrel length for a revolver is 3"....

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Do you mean Sky Marshal? I've not heard of a Korth Air Marshal (and Marshall is a city in Texas )

Yes, Sky Marshall. I found the concept too ridiculous to remember the name of the gun, to be honest.

call1911 said:

Ta! Got enough friends, don't need any more.
Maybe what I really meant was lost somewhere in my knowledge of the English language - it's not my native language.

Or maybe you don't want to understand?

My intention was to offer you to discuss this interesting matter not in the OPs thread but somewhere else.
But meanwhile I saw that you have your knowledge about a Swiss gun from some badly translated webpages.
You see, there's nothing to learn for me from your second hand knowledge

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Badly translated webpages? If I had not learnt German in the Bundeswehr, I would have learnt it at the Universität Hamburg.

You are obviously delusional when you think that you know it all while you cannot even comprehend that I have been at both Korth factories and talked to the master gun smith at Walther, Ulm.

Show us some photos of you collection. Here are some of my Korths, just some:

Maybe you want to continue to hijack the OPs thread and bore him to death, but I do not.

Back on topic....

I have both 4 and 6 inch Target models. I shoot the 4 inch just a tad better. They both outshoot my Clark Custom Ruger and High Standard Victor by a hair. I attribute that to the Target grips on the Sigs.

This is my 4 inch Target model that has served me well without issue.





For the performance and the fact that these aren’t made anymore, I think $500 for the gun with 5 mags is a good value.