Grouping Slightly Left?

Put this one in the strange category, but I got myself some +1.0 diopter safety glasses to help my old eyes see the sights more clearly. They helped me see the sights and marginally made the target at distance more fuzzy. The strange thing was that my sights were no longer pointing to where I was aiming. They were off by a couple of inches at 10-15 yards. I tried another gun and found the same thing. Then I figured that the only thing I had changed was the shooting glasses. I went back to regular safety glasses and my sights were back spot on. I wouldn't have thought this could have made a difference, but it did. Maybe my eyes are not well aligned with the optical center of the +1.0 glasses. Anyway, it was a unexpected discovery for me.

Scrod314 said:

I am right handed. So, probably just recoil anticipation? Also, fixed sights but after market Ameriglow sights. I was using Winchester 180 grain target ammo.

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We addressed the "flinch" issue on this thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/flinching-drills.864546/#post-11414429

And if muscle fatigue is another cause, try transfering the grip work from smaller hand/forearm muscles to larger shoulder/back/chest muscles outlined on this thread for a match shooter - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ith-this-glock-22.861829/page-2#post-11354420

For your review, US Army Marksmanship Unit Training Guide chapter on trigger control - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trigger-control.834737/page-4#post-11320782

Just to cover all bases, here's a neutral grip demonstrated by Rob Leatham that won't add input to trigger/front sight - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trigger-control.834737/page-2#post-11245649

Jump to 1:55 minute of video for demonstration



And as I posted already, if you are experiencing shooting left just with this pistol, it may be the pistol and trigger surfaces need to be smoothed out. My Shield 9mm trigger was quite gritty and jerked/jumped the front sight quite a bit when new and I dry fired the Shield several hundred times and the front sight moved less. And after shooting it several hundred times, it is producing smaller and smaller groups, indicating to me the trigger surfaces are smoothing out (breaking in).

And it's why match shooters do trigger jobs or replace triggers on their pistols, to remove trigger induced front sight movement.

edwardware said:

Presuming you're a righty shooting a handgun, pushing left is a common flinch.

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Came to suggest it could be the shooter.

In my (limited) experience as an instructor, 98% of the time it's the shooter, not the gun.

Make sure to consciously reset the trigger during slow fire to make sure you have a good follow through.

The trigger in my shield was horrible to the point I never shoot it and was close to selling it cause I hated the thing. Knowing I wouldn't get crap for trade in value, I installed an Apex trigger, Ameriglo Hackathorn sights and a Hogue grip sleeve. Now the gun shoots great and I even started carrying it. The Hogue IMO made a huge difference.

there's a whole bunch of things that influence where you put your bullets with a handgun. I would compare it to a golf grip, which doesn't come natural to most people and is something that takes effort to overcome all the little things we want to do wrong that get in the way of us golfing/shooting the way we want. If you make a conscious effort and "fake" good technique, good technique eventually becomes your natural response when shooting. In my experience grip, sight picture and what you do when squeezing the trigger are the big 3 things that need to be done right to get good results. You may already know all this and I'm not experienced enough to be talking down to anyone about shooting, just sharing my experience in getting good results.

I briefly owned a Walther that wouldn't group with any predictability. Put hundreds of rounds through it and finally gave up and traded it for a CZ, which I shot perfectly from the 1st range trip and has been flawless since. It's usually the shooter, but every now and then it can be the gun.

mlankton said:

there's a whole bunch of things that influence where you put your bullets with a handgun. I would compare it to a golf grip, which doesn't come natural to most people and is something that takes effort to overcome all the little things we want to do wrong that get in the way of us golfing/shooting the way we want. If you make a conscious effort and "fake" good technique, good technique eventually becomes your natural response when shooting. In my experience grip, sight picture and what you do when squeezing the trigger are the big 3 things that need to be done right to get good results. You may already know all this and I'm not experienced enough to be talking down to anyone about shooting, just sharing my experience in getting good results.

I briefly owned a Walther that wouldn't group with any predictability. Put hundreds of rounds through it and finally gave up and traded it for a CZ, which I shot perfectly from the 1st range trip and has been flawless since. It's usually the shooter, but every now and then it can be the gun.

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Yup, refer to post #9 for reference!

Smiles,

I have an M&P Compact 9 that has always been off to the left for me. I figured it's something I'm doing wrong but haven't been able to fix it by changing anything I do. Finally after thousands of rounds something dawned on me. I have the same gun in a different caliber, an M&P Compact 45 and it's not off to the left for me. That convinced me that the problem is the sights on the 9 and not something I'm doing. Yesterday I adjusted the sights on the 9. I expect to get to the range sometime this week to see how much difference it makes.

I noticed some time ago that the 45 is more accurate than the 9 at the 10 yds I usually shoot. I thought that was odd since I have way more experience with the 9 and it has noticeably less recoil. I don't know why it took me this long to make an adjustment to the sights on the 9.

...I noticed my groups are slightly left of where I'm aiming.

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What does that mean to you and at what distance?

If this is what your doing at 25 yards, I wouldn’t change a thing. Slightly left or not.

I tend to pull my shots left (for most guns). Just a little bit. But I know it's me doing it. Before you do anything, you need to set up some kind of rest so the gun is as steady as possible and then you can see "how the gun shoots", not so much how you shoot. Get the sights right, THEN see how you're shooting and if you need to change anything about how you're doing it.

Stophel said:

I tend to pull my shots left (for most guns). Just a little bit. But I know it's me doing it. Before you do anything, you need to set up some kind of rest so the gun is as steady as possible and then you can see "how the gun shoots", not so much how you shoot. Get the sights right, THEN see how you're shooting and if you need to change anything about how you're doing it.

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See Posts #9, 21 and 23!