Cease Fire =>> STOP!

Craig_AR · Jan 16, 2021

Interesting language change came up during the range safety portion of an NRA class last week.
Our instructor said the new advice is to holler the single word "STOP!" instead of our decades-old traditional "Cease fire!" when you need to take the range activity to safe hold.
The idea is that, especially with hearing protection on, some on the range may only hear the words as "...Fire!" and commence firing instead of stopping.
I do not know if the NRA is promulgating this shift in terms, but it has a certain logic to it.
Thoughts?
Has anyone else heard this new command, either in training or at a range?

Craig

Zendude · Jan 16, 2021

I seem to recall hearing it when sharing the range with chl classes. It was understood that the Stop! command only applied to the students and not everyone else on the range.

jmr40 · Jan 16, 2021

As a retired teacher and coach I agree. This is one of those things we quickly learned. Kids, and I assume adults as well, tend to hear the last thing said. In an academic classroom this is less important. But my wife was a PE teacher and I was a shop teacher. If you tell kids to "stop running" it is far less effective than simply "STOP".

kmw1954 · Jan 16, 2021

STOP!!! Stop what? Stop shooting? Stop talking? Stop moving? Again Stop What?

As a RO I recently had a patron open his hard case and the barrel was pointed into the range and directly at my Chest. I yelled STOP as soon as he placed his hand on the gun and before I could get out another word he had the gun out of the case and pointed directly at my head. STOP DID NOT STOP THE ACTION. After I had this IDIOT settled on the bench I called out CRSO and insisted I needed to leave the range and take a break. Took me twenty minutes to calm down after having a 300Win MAG pointed directly at my head and chest just 3 feet away.

Craig_AR · Jan 16, 2021

kmw1954 said:
STOP DID NOT STOP THE ACTION.

Well, it is certain that CEASE FIRE! would have had no affect on that idiot.

MEHavey · Jan 16, 2021

As an RSO, I will stay with "Cease Fire !" on the Line.
I will continue to go (and have gone) " STOP ! ! " dealing with individuals.

mjsdwash · Jan 16, 2021

its a moronic idea based on a bad logic train. If you can hear "fire!" but can hear "cease" your tuning it out, not unable. Yelling "STOP!" is beyond stupid. The first instinct people have when hearing that goes back to being babies, and associating with panic. Most people all turn to look for the source of the word. Because that word has the effect of turning peoples thinking off, they all turn to face the sound with their loaded guns in the hand, and their brain turned off. The only logical reason may be that the average new shooter has not heard the cease fire command enough to know.... but thats a bad range that doesn't inform.
This is the same reason they recommend not using your horn when cut off. Lots of people hear the horn and panic stop.

kmw1954 · Jan 17, 2021

Craig_VA said:
Our instructor said the new advice is to holler the single word "STOP!" instead of our decades-old traditional "Cease fire!" when you need to take the range activity to safe hold.

Has anyone else heard this new command, either in training or at a range?

Craig

At our range it is taught and the operational procedure is to 1. Turn on the RED FLASHING Light. 2. Announce loudly and clearly "CEASE FIRE" and then to REPEAT the command, and if needed repeat a third time.

In 10 months of doing this 3 to 4 days each week I have yet to have anyone continue to shoot!

I have a much harder time getting people to uncase their firearms while only pointed down range. And that is even after they have had that instruction Twice.

The actual command we use it this," Cease Fire, Cease Fire, Unload your firearm, remove magazines, place a chamber flag into the chamber and step back away from the bench. Do not approach the bench or handle firearms or ammunition's during a Cease Fire".

MEHavey · Jan 17, 2021

mjsdwash said:
Yelling "STOP!" is beyond stupid.

'Fraid not. (but I admit an interesting turn of phrase there)

I will stay with "Cease Fire !" on the Line.
I will continue to go (and have gone) " STOP ! ! " dealing with individuals.

"STOP" -- in my personal experience results in an instantaneous freeze -- and saved
at least a dozen individual shooters under my line supervision over the years from making
serious errors in the next several seconds that would have resulted in dripping blood trails.

(Bad juju... blood trails... however minor.)

.

mjsdwash · Jan 17, 2021

MEHavey said:
'Fraid not. (but I admit an interesting turn of phrase there)

"STOP" -- in my personal experience results in an instantaneous freeze -- and saved
at least a dozen individual shooters under my line supervision over the years from making
serious errors in the next several seconds that would have resulted in dripping blood trails.

(Bad juju... blood trails... however minor.)

and that goes out the window when "stop" becomes a routine command,

MEHavey · Jan 17, 2021

Uh... what part of "not routine" was unclear.
A little RTP needed here.

RetiredUSNChief · Jan 17, 2021

Train people on what to expect. If you want "cease fire", train that way. If you want "stop", train that way.

The key word in "cease fire" is "cease", which means "stop".

There is, however, some wisdom in prudent word choice. I'll give them that. But it's never as a single word command when using "fire" anyway.

As a retired submariner, the only time "fire" is used as a command or in formal communications is in the event of an actual fire casualty (or training fire the same).

So every time you watch a movie where somebody says something like "FIRE TORPEDOS!", you can rest assured the script writers have no clue what's really spoken.

kmw1954 · Jan 17, 2021

MEHavey said:
'Fraid not. (but I admit an interesting turn of phrase there)

"STOP" -- and saved
at least a dozen individual shooters under my line supervision

(Bad juju... blood trails... however minor.).

And I am guessing that that command was directed at an individual and NOT as a General Command.

Each time I have used the Command "STOP" it has Always been directed at an individual or and individual group and never as a General Command.

Part of our routine for coming onto a range is to also instruct them that we run 15min. cycles after which time we will announce a CEASE FIRE which we also announce a two minute warning to the Cease Fire.

NuShootr · Jan 17, 2021

The ranges I have been to have a video you have to watch the first time you are there to shoot. The video specifically says that when you hear "CEASE FIRE", you should eject your magazine, rack your slide, and place your firearm down, barrel pointing down range with the ejection port facing up. Then at the range, there are posters ALL OVER that have the same instructions in writing with "CEASE FIRE" in caps, bolded and in red. As a newbie, I don't like the "STOP" idea. To many ingrained reactions to that over my lifetime. To me, it usually just means to freeze whatever I'm doing. I personally prefer the practice and safety of the "CEASE FIRE" command and the actions I'm expected to take after I hear that. Seems like something more attuned to teaching safety.

MEHavey · Jan 17, 2021

kmw1954 said:
guessing that that command was directed at an individual and NOT as a General Command.

Correctomundo. :thumbup:

Please see Post #6

kmw1954 · Jan 17, 2021

MEHavey said:
Correctomundo.
Please see Post #6

Funny that I read that post and gave it a like right after reading it, must be the following discussions that clouded my mind. Apologies

entropy · Jan 17, 2021

RetiredUSNChief said:
So every time you watch a movie where somebody says something like "FIRE TORPEDOS!", you can rest assured the script writers have no clue what's really spoken.

Everyone knows the correct command is "Los!"

jmorris · Jan 17, 2021

Stop! always worked for me. Dogs, kids, folks that just popped a primer in a squib load, works on them all.

To me, it usually just means to freeze whatever I'm doing.

I think this is universally accepted, once the irritating or potentially dangerous activity ceases, more informative explanation can take place.

I also like it for it’s speed, single syllable

MEHavey · Jan 17, 2021

kmw1954 said:
discussions that clouded my mind.

No apologies necessary my friend.
Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis.

D.B. Cooper · Jan 17, 2021

Craig_VA said:
Interesting language change came up during the range safety portion of an NRA class last week.
Our instructor said the new advice is to holler the single word "STOP!" instead of our decades-old traditional "Cease fire!" when you need to take the range activity to safe hold.
The idea is that, especially with hearing protection on, some on the range may only hear the words as "...Fire!" and commence firing instead of stopping.
I do not know if the NRA is promulgating this shift in terms, but it has a certain logic to it.
Thoughts?
Has anyone else heard this new command, either in training or at a range?

Craig

The CMP was using it for high school shooting sports at least as far back as 2016. In addition to the reasoning you listed, I was also told that stop is a single syllable that can be yelled faster than "cease fire." Additionally, the "stop" command includes all activity, such as walking downrange on a hot range, handling a firearm ona cold range with shooter downrange checking targets, any other unsafe behavior, etc. etc.

Hartkopf · Jan 17, 2021

IIRC, in the ‘70s the airline industry changed commands similar to what is talked about in the OP.

Something along the lines of “you are not clear for takeoff.” The radio cut out in one specific incident and the pilot only heard “clear for takeoff.”

A single, universal word is the smart choice. Or fewer words that do not include the word you want to stop from happening. Like “takeoff.” Or “fire.”

kmw1954 · Jan 17, 2021

I think next week I should give this a try while I'm at the 100yd range with 20/30 people present and see how many go huh when I get on the PA and announce STOP! during a live fire.

RetiredUSNChief · Jan 18, 2021

kmw1954 said:
I think next week I should give this a try while I'm at the 100yd range with 20/30 people present and see how many go huh when I get on the PA and announce STOP! during a live fire.

Nope. Wouldn't advise it.

Range operations are based on rules which people are trained to. When people hear a command they don't expect, you'll get unexpected reactions.

Granted MOST people would "stop" what they're doing, but you'll likely get several responses dictated more by human nature than what they're trained to do. For example, you may see more people looking over their shoulders trying to see what caused the unexpected command instead of placing their weapons in a safe condition and putting them down.

Never give unexpected range commands of at all possible. If you change things, train on it first.

entropy · Jan 18, 2021

RetiredUSNChief said:
Range operations are based on rules which people are trained to.

For those of us who are vets, this is true. It'd be interesting to see what happens trying that on public sight-in days at my gun club. I'll never know, because I make it a point to make myself scarce during those times. If I saw that, I'd probably give up hunting.

Jack B. · Jan 18, 2021

When at the range or any place for that matter. If I hear some one yell in a loud voice whether it is Cease Fire or Stop or anything Else. I immediately stop what I am doing to find out whats' going on. I do this in case I didnt here things correctly.

Cease Fire =>> STOP!

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