What is your AR-15 quality list?

I have a few levels. One is junk. Usually one that has a poly lower with crap parts that doesn’t shoot well, parts break, etc.

Then there are value guns. Low cost like the M&P like you describe. Good quality, shoot well, but don’t have exceptional fit and finish.

There are “top tier” ones. High price, high end parts, and usually are well made.

Of course there are many levels in between.

Its all relative really.

To me a "quality" AR will have a premium barrel, trigger, and bolt/BCG and maybe an AGB. That is pretty much it. That will get you to a certain price. Add on a bunch of premium stocks, handguards, sights, and many other features and there is where you have your high end price point.

My Stags are 10ish years old and seem to be good mid-level quality- I have no complaints, but also am not a DEVGRU member.

Noveske and JP are regarded as pretty high end.

SOLGW is building a strong reputation for having “Hard Use Blasters”.

I have experienced M&A, Colt, DTI, PSA, and a few random parts thrown together.

My experience was that M&A was good, but sold me a barrel that was obviously a military reject. They said they were overruns. Its a very good barrel, but the sights were off. I fixed it, and still have it. It shoots excellent. Total cost in 2006 was $640

Another M&A I had but eventually swapped to a Bushmaster/Windham pencil barrel, and Tapco stock has been the hardest used rifle I have ever owned, and its seen tens of thousands of rounds. It would go long stretches without cleaning, usually a few hundred bulk.22 in a CMMG kit, than back to the original M&A bolt for a few hundred 5.56, pretty hot, 55grains at 3100fps from a 16" barrel (loads published in Lyman 49th addition. Sometimes it would do that a few times a before cleaning.

At once point it got so dirty the barrel extension looked like steel wool had been stuffed in. It was lead shaved from 22lr ammo. it was running fine at the time. By round count 22,000 it had experienced no malfunctions that that could not be attributed to ammo, and I don't say that like people shooting NIB ammo at the range when their 1400$ Kimber jams, but actual low quality ammo that was loaded to hot (2 case head separations in that rifle), or loaded too light (1 failure to eject)Total cost in 2007 was $640

The DTI, (Del-Ton) rifle I have is incredibly accurate, has never malfunctioned, a few thousand rounds, never abused, but not babied. Total cost in 2015 was $520

The PSA runs fine, its a pistol so its been the least reliable 223 AR I have had, but its still a matter of 1 in 3-500 rounds, so given the short gas system I'm happy with it. Total cost in 2018 was $330.

A few that were built from mixed parts piece by piece have worked fine. A 9mm Colt pattern was having issues with feeding but i got it fixed.

The Colt is just a generic 6920, that a friend saves me brass from. I can't tell you much about it, except that its chamber is oversize, and it really stretches brass. Cost on that was was appx $1100 in 2012

So of all the AR's I have owned or worked on, most are pretty good, most are among the cheapest options out there. All are equally accurate.
I used to take the M&A rifles out to the Yakima desert, and they ran fine in sand storms, and snowstorms. The only AR's I have seen malfunction are Colts, and stuff running ProMags. I don't think cost really matters. When I bought the M&A rifles, your only other options were Colt at $1400 for anything minimum, Armelite at $1500 for anything, minimum, and Bushmaster at $1100 for anything, minimum. At the time, kits were becoming popular, and that really drove prices down.

To date no one has proven their hi end AR's do anything better, most people are afraid to scratch their hi end stuff. Same with the 1911 world. No one has proven my rattily Springfield GI is not a better pistol than theirs, actually the opposite.

Paying for the features you want is what matters. I don't like rails, or optics, so mine have A1 or A2 uppers for the most part. Nothing wrong with paying more for what you want, but its not going to make it better in the opinion of someone who doesn't like the style. Lots of people like heavy barrels, and I despise them, so some may say its worth it to pay more for, I would offer less. Some people still like quad rails. About any AR made by any of the major makers will get you the same reliability, and similar accuracy for a rifle that won't live on a bench. A typical $500 AR should be 1 MOA with good factory ammo, mine are, and they were tested using an A2 scope rail adaptor, a Bushnell 3x9x40, so I'm certain they could do better.

I have a 500 dollar diamondback db-15 and let me tell you. That things fitment is sub par, you can rattle the upper and lower in your hands. That is a feature that wasn't sold with my girlfriends M&P-15 and I'd imagine not in quality ar-15s. However, while clean it shoots no flaws so I cannot complain too much and it is incredibly light as set up.

I don't get caught up in brand names.i mainly buy from companies that use correct milspec materials.4150v chrome barrels, carpenter 158 bolt,full auto bcg, 7075 buffer tube,etc.
Basically I like companies that build colt clones far as materials but I also like military style rifles with pinned FSB I don't care for free float tubes and all .

This and similar always make me laugh but I will share it anyway.



The sad part is nearly all my AR are built on DPMS and Bushmaster Uppers/Lowers and the majority of the internals. The thing is that I would rather have my destitute based guns that I built myself than anything in the top two tiers.

Hard to beat a Rock River, especially given the relatively moderate cost. I love their 2-stage "National Match" trigger.

mcb said:

This and similar always make me laugh but I will share it anyway.

View attachment 978996

The sad part is nearly all my AR are built on DPMS and Bushmaster Uppers/Lowers and the majority of the internals. The thing is that I would rather have my destitute based guns that I built myself than anything in the top two tiers.

Click to expand...

I think that graphic is a decent representation, though I think PSA's Premium Line (with the FN Herstal barrels) deserves a little more credit. I am a bit biased because my only AR is a PSA (Freedom, not Premium) and I like it.

It is a bit tongue in cheek obviously, but there is some truth to it.

BigBL87 said:

I think that graphic is a decent representation, though I think PSA's Premium Line (with the FN Herstal barrels) deserves a little more credit. I am a bit biased because my only AR is a PSA (Freedom, not Premium) and I like it.

Click to expand...

I guess I don't agree with the chart (it makes me laugh, and not because I agree with it), simply because all the manufactures make so many models and all too often use small common parts and furniture from third party manufactures. I wouldn't be surprised if Larue and Bushmaster (when it existed) sourced detents and many of the springs from the same suppliers. Give me a quality barrel and the rest is gravy and personally preference. Other than my first AR I have built all the rest myself. It's too easy and fun to do and get exactly the configuration you want.

mcb said:

I guess I don't agree with the chart (it makes me laugh, and not because I agree with it), simply because all the manufactures make so many models and all too often use small common parts and furniture from third party manufactures. I wouldn't be surprised if Larue and Bushmaster (when it existed) sourced detents and many of the springs from the same suppliers. Give me a quality barrel and the rest is gravy and personally preference and other than my first AR I have built all the rest myself. It's too easy and fun to do and get exactly the configuration you want.

Click to expand...

Very true. It is very generalized for sure, but I think it does get overall quality and attention to detail generally in the ballpark. I'd love a Noveske or BCM, but I have PSA money and my PSA does what I need it to. Could I in theory afford a November? Probably, but I'd have to sell a couple rifles/optics to afford it and I'd rather have more toys than one really expensive one that does 99% the same as my current one.

20 years or so ago I had a list of different branded lowers and who manufactured them. This is the most comprehensive list I have found now but just because they are sold under that name doesn’t mean it was mfg by that business.

“1 2 Vets Arms Company, LLC
2 Adams Arms
3 ADCOR Defence
4 Addax
5 ADEQ Firearms Company
6 Advanced Defense Sysems (ADS)
7 Aeroprecision
8 AGP Arms
9 Alberta Tactical Rifle Supply
10 Alexander Arms
11 All Weapons One
12 Allstar Tactical LLC
13 Alpha Shooting Sports
14 Ambush Firearms
15 Ameetech*
16 American Precision Arms
17 American Spirit Arms
18 American Tacitcal Imports (ATI)
19 American Weapon Systems
20 Anderson Manufacturing
21 Anvil Arms*
22 AR 15 Plus
23 AR Permformance
24 AR15 Depot
25 AR15.com Armament Rifle
26 AR57 Center
27 Ardel Engineering (AE)
28 Ares Arms LLC.
29 Ares Defense
30 Arizona Armory (AZ)
31 Armalite
32 Armitage International LTD
33 ARMS LLC
34 Arm's Tech LTD
35 Astra Arms
36 ATT Tactical
37 AXTS Weapons
38 Balimoy
39 Barnes Precision
40 Barret Firearms Manufacturing
41 Bartlett Enterprises
42 Battle Born Rifles
43 Battle Rifle Company
44 Bazooka Brothers Manufacturing
45 Black Dawn
46 Black Diamond SOCOM Mfg.
47 Black Gold cusom Arms
48 Black Heart International
49 Black Hole Weaponry
50 Black Rain
51 Black Scorpion Firearms
52 Black Weapons Armory
53 Blackthorne
54 BMG Inc
55 Bohica Arms
56 Bradley Arms
57 Branch Custom Weaponry
58 Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM)
59 Bushmaster Firearms International
60 C3 Defense
61 Cavalry Arms*
62 Centurion Arms
63 Centurion Tactical
64 Century
65 Century Arms
66 Charles Daly
67 Chattahoochee Gun Works LLC
68 Chengdu Hongguag Machinery Manufacturing Co Ltd
69 Chiappa Firearms
70 Christensen Arms
71 Christian Armory Works (CAW)
72 CIV Tactical
73 CMMG
74 CMS*
75 Cobra Tactical
76 Colt's
77 Compass Lake Engineering (CLE)
78 Conquest Arms
79 Controlled Chaos Arms
80 Core15
81 Crusader Weaponry
82 D.S. Arms
83 Dalphon Firearms*
84 Daniel Defense
85 Dedicated Technology
86 Delaware Machinery
87 Delta Arms Company
88 Del-Ton
89 Denny's Guns
90 Detroit Gun Works
91 Diemaco*
92 Dlask Arms
93 Double Diamond Law Enforcement Supply
94 Double Star
95 DPMS / Panther Arms
96 Dreadnaught Industries
97 Duty Precision Machinery Shops (DPM Shops)
98 Eagle Arms
99 East Coast Gun Sales
100 Echigoya
101 Edward Arms
102 Elite Arms
103 Essential Arms
104 Fabrique Nationale
105 Firebird Precision
106 Frankford Arsenal
107 Franklin Armory
108 Frozen North Firearms*
109 Fulton Armory
110 GA Precision (GAP)
111 Galati International
112 GAR Arms
113 Global Tactical
114 GM Corp.*
115 Good Time Outdoors Inc
116 Grenadier Precision*
117 Group Industries*
118 GT Vertical Concepts (GTVC)
119 Gun Smoke Enterprises
120 H&H Enterprises
121 Harrington and Richarson (H&R)*
122 Hatcher Gun Company
123 Head Down Products
124 Hecklor and Koch
125 Henderson Defense
126 Hera Arms
127 Hera Arms, Germany
128 Hesse
129 High Mountain Hunting Supply
130 High Standard Manufacturing Company
131 Hogan guns
132 Holland Gun Works
133 Houlding Precision
134 Huldra Arms
135 Integrity Arms and Survival
136 Iron Ridge Arms
137 JARD Inc.
138 JD Machine
139 JP Enterprises
140 JSE Surplus
141 Kaiser Defense
142 Kiss Tactical
143 Knights Armament Co. (KAC)
144 Kurt's Kustom Firearms (KKF)
145 L&G weaponry
146 Lancer Systems
147 Land Warfare Research Company (LWRC)
148 Lantac, UK
149 LAR Grizzly
150 LaRue
151 Lauer Custom Weaponry (LCW)
152 LBR Arms
153 Legion Firearms
154 Les Bauer
155 Lewis Machine and Tool (LMT)
156 Liberty Arms
157 Liberty Tactical
158 Loki
159 Lone Wolf Distributing
160 M Weapons
161 Mack Gwinn Industries (?) (MGI)
162 Magpul
163 Mattel Corp.*
164 McKay Enterprises LLC.
165 Mean Metal Inc
166 Medesha Fireamrs
167 Mega Arms
168 Model 1 Sales
169 Mohawk Armory
170 Molot
171 Mossberg
172 National Ordinance Company
173 New Evolution Military Ordinance (NEMO)
174 New Frontier Armory
175 Next Generation Arms
176 Nodak
177 Nordic Components
178 Norinco
179 North East Arms
180 Noveske
181 Oberland Arms, Gemany
182 Olympic Arms
183 Palmetto State Armory
184 Palmetto State Defense
185 Para - USA
186 Patriot Defense Arms
187 Patriot Ordinance (POF)
188 Plum Crazy
189 Precision Firearms
190 Precision Guncraft
191 Predator Custom Shop
192 Predator Tactical
193 PRI Uppers
194 Primary Weapons Systems (PWS)
195 ProArms
196 PWA*
197 Quality Arms
198 Quentin Defence
199 R Guns
200 Rainer Arms
201 Ratworx
202 RCM Gun Parts
203 Red Jacket Firearms
204 Red X Arms
205 Remington
206 RGM inc
207 Rifle Dynamics
208 RifleGear
209 RND
210 Rock Island Arsenal
211 Rock River Arms
212 Rocky Mountain Arms
213 Roggio Arsenal
214 Ruger
215 S I Defense
216 Saber Tactical
217 Sabre Defence*
218 Schmeisser, Germany
219 Scorpion Tactical
220 Seekins Precision
221 Senda Corp*
222 Sendra
223 SGW*
224 Shadow Ops Weaponry
225 Sharps Rifle Company/Sharps rifle
226 Sig Arms
227 Sionics
228 Smith & Wesson
229 SNS Industries*
230 SOCOM Mfg.
231 Sog Arms
232 Sonju Defense
233 Southern Gun Co.
234 Specialized Dynamics
235 Specialized Tacitcal Systems
236 Spike's Tactical
237 Stag Arms
238 State of the Art Arms (SOTA)
239 Sterling Arsenal
240 Stinger Arms
241 Sun Devil
242 Superior Arms
243 Suplus Ammo and Arms
244 Tactial Weapons Solutions
245 Tactical Ammunition
246 Tactical Arms Manufacturing
247 Tactical Innovations
248 Tactical Machining
249 Tactics LLC*
250 Templar Custom
251 Templar Tactical Arms
252 Teppo Jutsu LLC.
253 Thompson Machine
254 Thor Glocal Defense
255 Timberwolf Tactical
256 Titan Ordinance
257 TKS Engineering
258 TNW Firearms
259 Tommy15
260 Top Notch Tacitcal (TNT)
261 Triplett Firearms
262 Tromix
263 U T Arms
264 Umbrella Corporation Weapons Research Group
265 US Fireams Academy
266 USA Tactical Firearms
267 Valkyrie Arms
268 Vidalia Police Supply
269 Vltor
270 Vulcan Armament
271 WFC Proshop
272 White Oaks Armament
273 Wilson Combat
274 Windham Weaponry
275 Xtreme Machinig
276 Yankee Hill Machine (YHM)
277 Z M Weapons
278 Zel Custom Manufacturing
279 Zombie Defense “

Some of the polymer upper or lower guns are truely crap. Very few have actually pulled that off and made a quality product. Beyond that 90% of what your paying for is fit and finish, furniture, trigger, barrel quality, and brand name.

I like @mbc’s list.
Evidently I’m solidly in the Mid-Tier, despite my personal perception of destitution.

It’s all a spectrum. And within brands are also tiers.

Some humans don’t need laser accuracy for 25 yard tactical training.
I certainly don’t need a heavy, full auto bolt carrier in a precision long range Valkyrie, while trying to see if I connected with a very small, far off, target.

Fitment and Finish Appearance is important to me, as most of mine are handled with Kid Gloves and dry docked on a bench.
Many others treat an AR as just a tool.
Still others treat them as a stick of cord wood or perhaps a pry-bar.

So, even a tiered list of manufacturers would still be “wrong” depending on specific qualities and attributes a single human is looking for.
“Goes Bang” is (or should be) on every level, but 1/4MOA isn’t even on the top tier. Many will have to pay more, or build custom, for that.


One thing I like, or rather, find amusing...

It seems to me, there is much more, as well as more contentious debate over which lower level, mass produced, low budget factory option will “get you killed” if ever brought into the theater of war.

As if being eighty pounds overweight and completely untrained had anything to do with it...
Nope. It’s all that this one was thirty five bucks cheaper.

It seems the greatest ones don’t mind there being other greats around.

It's all really a matter of personal preference and experience. In the end it comes down to two tings: accuracy and reliability. Accuracy is certainly driven by the ability of the shooter, although there are guns that make even a mediocre shooter look like a pro. Very poorly fitted guns will certainly have accuracy problems, so each shooter has to decide how well a particular set up works for him. Reliability is pretty straight forward: After XX rounds, how many failures have you had? Can you trust the gun to go "bang" when you pull the trigger?

You can find that reliability in a high end HK or DD rifle, and you can also find it (or create it, through selective part upgrades) in a lower end rifle. It's just a matter of what it's worth to you. Personally, I'm not spending $2K on an AR...so I will accept the performance that I get at the price I'm willing to pay. And regardless of the cost of a rifle, the only way to have confidence in its performance is to shoot it frequently. If a $500 AR shoots reliably and hits the target at the ranges I need, then it's worth just as much (to me) as a $2,000 model.

I think the real value in these "assessments" of various manufacturers is identifying the trends in terms of performance (accuracy and reliability) to help buyers make informed decisions about their own weapons. A brand that is continually reported as having parts and reliability issues is probably one to avoid -- but I'm not going to judge someone for what they choose to buy because I don't have to live with the results.

For the record, I had a Stag Arms 2T that I gave to my son, and recently replaced it with a Sig M400 TREAD. Why? Because I trust Sig, it has received good reviews from the Collective, and it was a price I was willing to pay. If it had been a couple of hundred dollars more, I may have looked to one of the budget-end rifles, with the understanding that I might have to do some work on it to be completely satisfied.

I bought an Anderson lower and a low end Palmetto kit a few years ago, when everything was cheap, just to have the AR experience.

Fired a few hundred rounds through it, did a few mag dumps which I think are required by law for a new AR owner. It never skipped a beat, including when used with cheap Russian steel ammo.

The trigger sucked and was replaced with a $30 Palmetto enhanced trigger, much better.

I guess my point is, I threw this thing together for under $400. I am not an operator, and will hopefully never be in a war. This inexpensive rifle did everything it was supposed to do, and did it fairly well.

Bottom tier or close to it, but I couldn’t ask any more from it.

Found I’m not an AR fan, and replaced it with a Mini-14 which I’m happy with.

A good AR isn't necessarily about MOA. Or cycling 90 rounds... If you haven't fired thousands of rounds then your speculating at best about the longevity. Very few guns nowadays won't run out of the box for several hundred rounds at least. The AR rifles I have that have fired thousands aren't my most accurate by a hell of a stretch. I bought an olympic when the AWB ban died that is still my most accurate 16 inch non match AR ive seen. I used it for many years on varmint. Build quality and materials are crap to put it mildly.

Look up the top instructors and see what they say. They see more fail than us normal folk who fire a few rounds per year. All you get on a forum like this is "those are cheap junk" "paying for a name" or "Mines and my uncles brothers cousins been flawless for pobably 100 million rounds" when they still look brand new and they couldn't afford a whole case of ammo....

I still remember when there were only two choices for civilian AR's.
You could buy either a Colt or an Olympic Arms. I had one of each brand, and neither one was very good quality.

And then there is "The List". What a joke!
That list was invented by all the brand fanboy's on ARFCOM, and only means something to the Mil-Spec crowd that insist you have to have a M16 BCG, and a Chrome lined barrel in order to have a "Quality" AR 15. They wouldn't know precision if it bit them on the butt.

The big thing I see is the conundrum of what makes an AR a high quality firearm. A gun that will shoot a million rounds before failure is durable. A gun that puts 10 rounds into one hole at 1000 yards is very precise. A gun that can handle mag dumps without warping from temperature changes is good in that way. A gun that fires every time the trigger is pulled and cycles well is a reliable gun. So which quality makes it a high quality or low quality gun? Different people see things differently.

A decent trigger and a precise barrel are a great start to a high quality gun. Add in durable parts without sacrificing precision and make it run reliably and at least in my opinion you are at the point of having a quality firearm.