Unique and 230 gr Berry’s 45 ACP +P

That load is skirting with the upper end of velocity prescribed by Berrys (975 fps max).

I’m not sure what the negative event above 975 fps is supposed to be. Stripping of the plating seems unlikely. It is perhaps terminal performance, as Berrys “magnum” bullets are advertised to have thicker plating?

In any event, you may want to work up to + P velocities rather dive right in.

jski said:

What’s a good Unique load for a 230 gr Berry’s bullet for a 45 ACP +P round?

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I shy away from +P loads as I don't want to beat up a good gun.

jski said:

Berry's max recommended velocity is not exceeded. (This info is displayed on bullet boxes and product webpages.)

• Standard Plate Bullets Max Velocity: 1,250 fps.
• Thick-Plate Bullets (TP) Max Velocity: 1,500 fps.

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For what barrel length?
I get about 1000 fps with a 230gr from a 18" and 850 fps from a 5" in 45 acp.
From a 18" barrel I get 1250 fps with a 185gr jhp.

I don't use/shoot plated bullet. I've read posts and saw pictures that others have posted about plating failures. Never really could rap my head around the 1250fps max thing.

As joneb already stated, what bbl length?
So basically the pressure of the load doesn't matter, it's a velocity thing per Walkalong's post.

That brings me the next thing I have a hard time understanding. So if it's a velocity thing then why doesn't a 1 in 10 twist have more affect on the plating then a 1 in 16 twist?
90,000rpm's VS 56,000rpm's
Both twists are at the 1250fps max, you'd think the extreme 90,000rpm's of the 1 in 10 twist bbl would have more of an affect on the plating.

So basically a 20,000psi/1250fps 357mag load in a 20" bbl'd 1 in 38 twist marlin lever action (24,000rpm's/micro groove rifling) will max out the plating the same as a 35,000psi/1250fps 9mm load in a 5" bbl'd 1 in 10 twist semi-auto pistol (90,000rpm's/ballard rifling)

Plugging that data into QuickLoad, using the Speer bullet, 7.3grn Unique shows over +P max pressure. I'd be very careful working up to that.

I have data from 2 different Speer manuals, for a standard 230grn .45ACP load, for example... the older one gives 6.9grn Unique as max, the newer edition gives 6.5grn as max. I have loaded that 6.9grn load, back in my hotrod days, it was a handful in a standard 5" government 1911. I can't imagine going to 7.3grn...

jski said:

From Berry’s website:

• Berry's max recommended velocity is not exceeded. (This info is displayed on bullet boxes and product webpages.)
  • Standard Plate Bullets Max Velocity: 1,250 fps.
  • Thick-Plate Bullets (TP) Max Velocity: 1,500 fps.

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Also on Berrys website:

“Recommended velocity: 825-975 fps.”

So….

I load a 200 grain coated swc with 7 grains and it is a full power load. I would start at 6 and work up with your plated 230s. 7.3 sounds like an awful lot.

Not sure why anyone would want to develop a +P load with a plated bullet….

jski said:

That’s directly from Alliant’s Unique recipes for 45 ACP.
View attachment 1031128

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Keep in mind that's a max load, and the OAL is 1.26". If you load shorter, pressure will be higher and your max load will be lower. And you should start 10% below that load and work your way up.

Just my .02c

chris

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joneb said:

For what barrel length?

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Walkalong said:

Doesn't matter, just the velocity.

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Doesn't barrel length affect velocity, tho.....?

jski said:

That’s directly from Alliant’s Unique recipes for 45 ACP.
View attachment 1031128

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Well, the first assumption here is that Speer's CPRN and Berry's CPRN are identical or nearly so. That's probably a fairly safe assumption. "Probably"
The second assumption is that Speer used a 5" 1911A1 to get their safe maximum load levels and that is not a safe assumption. Not at all.

The only really safe assumption is they intend the reloader to follow their advice: "REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD."

Your starting load is 6.6gr.

jski said:

That’s directly from Alliant’s Unique recipes for 45 ACP.
View attachment 1031128

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All fine and well. WHat does it cost to start lower and work up? 20 or 30 extra test loads? Safety first.

I load 6.5gr Unique with a 230fmj. Seems reasonable and shoots accurate with all my 45acp handguns.

According to Berry's website, the .45 230 RN is rated for up to 1250 FPS.

The Alliant load of 7.3 Unique is for a jacketed bullet. It probably is safe with plated/cast bullets, as far as pressure is concerned, but the velocity is liable to be quite a bit higher than advertised, which may be pretty hard on an auto. Alliant lists 5.8 grains with a cast 230 RN at 849 FPS. This probably is not a true SAAMI max but rather an effort to minimize leading.

If I was desperate for a +P load with Unique and a Berry's bullet, I'd be inclined to start at six grains and work up until 950 FPS is achieved.

Personally, I'd shy away from plus p if your just going for target practice, thats a recipe for premature wear. Berrys plated are typically good for 1250 as well. As far as some have said about plated bullets not being good, I've loaded and shot MANY thousand with no issue. And, if your shooting steel even remotely close, plated or PC lead is far better from a safety standpoint that jacketed.

6.5 Grains of Unique, 230 RNL or Plated, standard 830 FPS work great. My go to for years.

Walkalong said:

I would assume it matters just like lead, that they would have to be tough enough to hold the lands

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This is why I posted what I did.

You have a vast knowledge base with bullets I've only read about. Hence my asking what I see and don't understand about the makeup and use of the plated bullets.

Still don't get it but I will never use a plated bullet in my life time either.

I wound not even begin to question what you know/wrote and take what you said as fact. Your knowledge only opened up another question about plated bullets.

I apologize to the op, this has nothing to do with his 7.3gr unique/230gr plated bullet load.

Myself I'd stay clear of a p+ unique/45acp load. Darn powder been around for +/- 100years and there's still no clear data by any mfg on what a p+ unique load is. That's called a clue.

IMHO:
Alliant is blowing smoke with their 230gr speer plated bullet/7.3gr data. Why isn't anyone else getting that fps out of their unique/bullet testing?

kerreckt said:

I load 6.5gr Unique with a 230fmj. Seems reasonable and shoots accurate with all my 45acp handguns.

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Once I came off that crazy 6.9grn load, I've been loading 6.5grn Unique under any 230grn bullet... for about 25 years or so.

jski said:

Of course guys, these Alliant recipes using Unique are for the 45 ACP and not the 45 ACP +P. And all Alliant recipes lean toward caution.

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I had to go back and pull that data up to see for myself... I can't believe it... but you are right, that is standard .45 ACP data. Personally, I think it's insane, or a misprint... it BELONGS in the +P section.

I plugged it into QuickLoad... 7.3grn Unique under a 230grn Speer TMJ bullet, seated at 1.265" as per the Speer data, shows a peak pressure of about 26500psi.

.38 Special said:

The Alliant load of 7.3 Unique is for a jacketed bullet.

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No, the Speer CPRN is copper plated round nose... I would not make the assumption that the plating thickness is the same as Berry's or any other bullet... I've loaded that bullet, and they are pretty tough compared to Berry's, which I've also loaded.