Berry’s Bullets for Defense?

[jski]

If you go the Berry’s website, you’ll see their “Hybrid Hollow Point” bullets. Are these intended as bullets to be used in actual defense loads? Or are they simply range bullets designed to behave as actual HP bullets used in self defense?


.45 230 gr Hybrid Hollow Point

 

[Buzznrose]

Their site calls them Self Defense bullets:

https://www.berrysmfg.com/category/hhp

 

[Docendo Discimus]

The manufacturer says that it is.

 

[Nasty Canasta]

In my less than scientific testing of hand loaded HD rounds I was getting better expansion using the Xtreme X-Def bullets over the Berry’s in both 124gr 9mm & 230gr 45 loaded to the same velocity, function & accuracy of both were on par with factory ammo & they cost a bit less too.
https://www.xtremebullets.com/category-s/55983.htm

 

[LiveLife]

Berry’s ... “Hybrid Hollow Point” bullets. Are these intended as bullets to be used in actual defense loads?

Yes.

Berry's MFG makes two different types of plated bullets:

Regular plated "Target" HP bullets meant for NON-EXPANDING range practice - https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp-45-452-200gr-thp



Thicker plated "Hybrid Hollow Point" bullets (Like Speer Gold Dot HP) meant for EXPANDING defensive loads - https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp-45-452-200gr-hhp

 

[jski]

Are the "Hybrid Hollow Point" bullets any good for defense rounds?

 

[LiveLife]

Are the "Hybrid Hollow Point" bullets any good for defense rounds?

That's a personal decision you have to make based on expansion/penetration test results which I cannot provide.

But I can share what I have done. Over the past 30 years, I have used Federal Hydra-Shok/Winchester Black Talon (Ranger-T)/Federal HST but migrated to Speer Gold Dot/Remington Golden Saber/Winchester PDX-1 due to well documented expansion and penetration test results and the fact that bulk component projectiles were available for me to reload "duplicate" defensive rounds to practice (I used WSF and now use BE-86 for higher velocities and greater accuracy of loads).

BUT, I choose to use factory ammunition for defensive pistols so if police needs pistol/ammunition for evidence during the duration of the investigation/court case, I only have to hand the police the extra boxes of factory ammunition instead of police taking my reloading equipment/supplies.

Getting back to your question, here's Berry's MFG video on HHP bullet performance showing 12" of penetration with 876 fps



For comparison, here's Speer Gold Dot gel test with denim flap (Looks like different type of gel block) showing 14.6" penetration with 834 fps (2:50 minute of video)

 

[AJC1]

Are the "Hybrid Hollow Point" bullets any good for defense rounds?

What standard are you setting that expectation on. There are gel tests all over the internet that show expansion and penitration. The better tests shoot a high volume to show consistency of result. Finding a load for good performance in all factors is the challenge. I've not seen any testing on that particular bullet, or the new rmr nuke. In the senerio where you don't have big factory testing and lots of video it boils down to confidence in manufacturer or doing your own complete testing. Choosing a budget bullet that you need to test over premium loaded SD ammunition won't save you money in the end unless your shooting that ammunition a lot, maybe even doing load development with a friend running the same load.

 

[jmorris]

I have successfully defended chicken lives with Berrys bullets, still have many thousands and have shot hundreds of thousands of them, used to buy them by the pallet.

Even their 147 gn double struck RN works for that.



They likely wont be the most accurate bullet out of any firearm but if your buying cheap plated bullets, that’s probably not your main goal.

 

[AJC1]

That's a personal decision you have to make based on expansion/penetration test results which I cannot provide.

But I can share what I have done. Over the past 30 years, I have used Federal Hydra-Shok/Winchester Black Talon (Ranger-T)/Federal HST but migrated to Speer Gold Dot/Remington Golden Saber/Winchester PDX-1 due to their exceptional well documented expansion and penetration test results and the fact that bulk component projectiles were available for me to reload "duplicate" defensive rounds to practice (I used WSF and now use BE-86 for higher velocities and greater accuracy of loads).

BUT, I choose to use factory ammunition for defensive pistols so if police needs pistol/ammunition for evidence during the duration of the investigation/court case, I only have to hand the police the extra boxes of factory ammunition instead of police taking my reloading equipment/supplies.

Getting back to your question, here's Berry's MFG video on HHP bullet performance showing 12" of penetration that may help

We were typing the same response generally at the same time. I left out the lawyer part as it causes drama regularly...

 

[Jim Watson]

I expected to see third tier companies loading the Berry's Hybrid in Sven and Ole's Custom Combat Ammunitions.
Haven't yet.

 

[rfwobbly]

I believe Berry started development of their HHP bullet after Speer sold a HUGE number of Gold Dots to the French police. At least in my thinking, it looked like Europe was going to be in the "fighting terrorism" mode for the next several centuries and Berry possibly thought there would be follow-on sales far into the future. Again in my thinking, the Berry HHP was always meant to compete against the Gold Dot in the components market.

And of course, there was always the chance one of the smaller, US-based, "craft" ammo makers would start loading their bullet. Business-wise it was a good move, but I don't think the ammo market has played out anywhere near what anyone thought. The HHP took an exceptionally long time to perfect, and by it's release the US was deep into the throws of politically-generated component shortages while the Europeans seemed to have blasted enough bad-guys to make new converts think twice.

Story:
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/french-national-police-choose-speer-gold-dot/

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I expected to see third tier companies loading the Berry's Hybrid in Sven and Ole's Custom Combat Ammunitions.
Haven't yet.

Ja, poor Sven und Ole. Der ammunition business got taken over by der Chef Siggie. Hersker derr dun shootsen shotsen.
I have to think maybe the HHP would be a decent practice bullet for someone planning to load their EDC with Gold Dots. Or someone planning for a strictly home defense use where the laws provide for strong Castle Doctrine protection for homeowners. In such a situation where the need to prove someone did not break in, did not pose a threat and did plan to commit a crime - especially since the evidence would be pretty clear they already had by their presence - wouldn’t involve ammo origin or manufacturer. If you shoot a robber in the bedroom threshold the kind of bullet really won’t matter. Unless you live in the presence of some truly criminal law enforcement and even worse courts.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I subscribe to the “carry factory self defense ammo for defense in court” philosophy.

I prefer “critical Defense” because I believe it will sound better in court.

That said, I bought 1,500 Berry’s hybrid hollow points. I’ve probably loaded 4-500. My only testing was punching holes in paper. But they shot as well as any other hollow point I’ve loaded.
We just experienced a dire shortage of factory ammo 18 months ago. If I were out of my preferred SD load, I would have no problem carrying the HHPs.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I’ve loaded a couple thousand of Berry’s HHP in .40 and .45 ACP for emergency ammo only.
Sticking to factory ammo for SD for now but both the above shoots well and groups great.

 

[jski]

Well, what a good short barrel 45 ACP bullet? Speer’s 230 gr? Speer’s 180 gr? Hornady’s XTP?

Actually, I’ve seen a lot of gel tests where the XTP fails to expand at all out of a short barrel.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Well, what a good short barrel 45 ACP bullet? Speer’s 230 gr? Speer’s 180 gr? Hornady’s XTP?

Actually, I’ve seen a lot of gel tests where the XTP fails to expand at all out of a short barrel.

What type of firearm? It might make a difference.

 

[GW Staar]

I you happen to move to St. George, Utah, where Berry's is located. You'd have the supply of SD bullets only blocks away. Except that Californians are moving there in droves. At least they are for the most part "good" Californians, who are escaping to find a place with California weather, but conservative politics, will issue conceal carry, and good or at least more reasonable gun laws.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Why does everyone get caught up in these ''supper whizzbang bullets''? Ball ammo always works.

 

[AJC1]

Why does everyone get caught up in these ''supper whizzbang bullets''? Ball ammo always works.

Because it's tacti-cool.

 

[buck460XVR]

Why does everyone get caught up in these ''supper whizzbang bullets''? Ball ammo always works.

In larger calibers, like .45acp, expansion is not as critical. Expansive more noticeable in lesser calibers. Another advantage to highly expanding bullets is less chance of over-penetration. Just because something "works" don't mean it's the best.

Because it's tacti-cool.

For the most part, I agree. One reason ammo makers put "tacti-cool" names on them. Flying ashtrays look cool peeking out from the end of a magazine or revolver cylinder. Put a little red tip on the end and you have a winner. Folks worry so much about terminal performance and very little about accuracy and reliability in their particular firearm. Keep your hits in COM or CNS, and bullet type is pretty much a moot point.

 

[BushMaster-15]

Are the "Hybrid Hollow Point" bullets any good for defense rounds?

Not in MY opinion , could be the very best HP bullets in the World and STILL NO GOOD for Defense purposes . Lawyer's make it a point driven home ,custom components are premeditation for someone out for trouble !.

I along with nearly every instructor will tell you ,carry FACTORY SELF DEFENSE LOADS ,while carrying and remove one additional weapon in the DA's arsenal

 

[Lennyjoe]

Well, what a good short barrel 45 ACP bullet? Speer’s 230 gr? Speer’s 180 gr? Hornady’s XTP?

Actually, I’ve seen a lot of gel tests where the XTP fails to expand at all out of a short barrel.

For a 2-3” barrel 185’s might be a better choice

 

[kalielkslayer]

Not in MY opinion , could be the very best HP bullets in the World and STILL NO GOOD for Defense purposes . Lawyer's make it a point driven home ,custom components are premeditation for someone out for trouble !.

I along with nearly every instructor will tell you ,carry FACTORY SELF DEFENSE LOADS ,while carrying and remove one additional weapon in the DA's arsenal

Kinda what I said.

But if that’s all you have, it’s better than some FMJ.

But I will always carry factory ammunition if I can find it.

 

[jski]

What type of firearm? It might make a difference.

I my case:

S&W Model 25

The brass you see is Starline AR.