dogtown tom
Member
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/912583664
Seller has no idea why this stocked pistol would require a tax stamp and a Form 4.
Seller has no idea why this stocked pistol would require a tax stamp and a Form 4.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/912583664
Seller has no idea why this stocked pistol would require a tax stamp and a Form 4.
It's my understanding that certain C&R type handguns that originally came with a holster that also was a stock were exempt from the NFA rule. Examples such as Lugers, Broomhandles, Inglis and Browning were on this exemption list. I dug it up when I bought an Inglis in this configuration. I'll see if I can find it again and post it.
They are, but the ATF is notoriously strict. If you look at: https://www.atf.gov/file/128116/download
#1 doesn't apply as this example isn't pre-war being manufactured in 1968.
#3 doesn't apply as it's not a Canadian Inglis.
#2 is the important one - the serial # on this gun is T215968. That does appear to match the s/n range of the exemption and the rest of the description, but the Emirates of Muscat & Oman crest (shown below) that is specifically mentioned in the exemption isn't there that I can see. It was likely either obliterated when taken into Israeli service or was never there.
Regardless, if the exemption mentions the crest, and the gun has no crest, then the exemption likely doesn't apply.
Granted, I'm not a lawyer, but that's how I read things.
View attachment 1032667
What leads you to believe the holster isn't original?....... And I'd almost lay money on that stock/holster not being Original per the ATF definitions.
Seller IS clueless.this is either an idiot seller or a trap.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/912583664
Seller has no idea why this stocked pistol would require a tax stamp and a Form 4.
there's also the part of #2 reading "having S/Ns less than T200,000" that's rather important here.
Note that i said almost lay money. fakes/reproes including really good ones currently out number real/original stocks of all kinds by a very wide margin here in the US. I'm a cynic and even if there wasn't/isn't some possible "catch my butt in a crack" aspect to it i'm spring loaded to the "prove it's real" position.What leads you to believe the holster isn't original?
This firearm could be completely legal:
If registered as an SBR.
Or if the owner sought an exemption from the NFA as a curio or relic. If that was the case an ATF letter should accompany the pistol.
Seller IS clueless.
YupWell isn't it your "duty" to inform a fellow FFL who is a Top GB seller with over 6,000 sales that he doesn't know what he is doing?
Did you send them a message to inquire??
Highly unlikely that anyone at GunBroker reviews any listing, for any reason.Did no one at Gun Broker see this and say, " Wait a minute, this might be an NFA item?"
True, nothing "rare" about a T series. But this is the first Hi Power Ive seen auctioned with Israeli markings and a stock holster. And its in perfect condition.I admit that I know nothing about Gun Broker, or how they operate, but it seems that somebody there is responsible for making sure nothing put up for sale is illegal. I see it is listed as having a "rare" T series prefix. I have an unfired T series gun myself, and while the "Unfired" part is rare, the T series guns aren't THAT rare. They made thousands of them.
By who?Maybe this is a trap.
Again i smell a trap, or at best multiple "felonies by ignorance".
Its gorgeous.That's a nice HP.
Its gorgeous.
It soitanly is!That's a nice HP.
Then it is the condition of the gun and the Israeli markings that are rare. The prefix...not so much.True, nothing "rare" about a T series. But this is the first Hi Power Ive seen auctioned with Israeli markings and a stock holster. And its in perfect condition.
The original photos of that auction showed the stock attached.....making an SBR and requiring an NFA tax stamp. Simply removing the stock doesn't magically solve the problem. Since the stock/holster is still in close proximity and possession of the seller and eventually the buyer, it is constructive possession of an SBR to possess both.I don’t see a reason for it to need an SBR stamp…. As long as you don’t actually affix that stock.
No, it's not. "Constructive possession".Perfectly legal to sell it as currently photographed, however. (Unless seller removed incriminating photos?)
If you want to possess the stock/holster and the pistol or attach to pistol....you need to file a Form 1, pay a $200 tax and wait for ATF approval. Pending that approval you darn well better not have the stock and pistol in your possession.Are we saying that if a stock touches that pistol and there’s photographic evidence it’s no longer legal to own or sell unless you have an SBR approval from the ATF?
Seller is dumber than a bag of hammers.New information added to the listing;
ATTENTION: PLEASE READ!!!
We need to provide some important information about this Browning Hi-Power. When this example has the wood stock attached, it classifies it as a NFA Class 3 item. We will ship this Browning Hi-Power without the stock attached and not in SBR form. Attaching a stock to this will require the buyer to register this firearm as a NFA item. We apologize for any inconvience this may have caused. If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us!
Information above was added on 10/22/2021 12:11:43 PM
It depends upon what the definition of "need" or "can" is. The other side -- the ones who can burn down buildings, destroy public and private property, loot stores, shoot innocent civilians, or the ones who are in a position to stick their corporate and private syphon hoses into the federal treasury and therefore the country's future, all this with near impunity -- must be absolutely thrilled that there is still a huge bunch of us who willingly abide by laws, even minor, stupid laws, that only apply to us.Buyer will need to buy a tax stamp and sadly, engrave his name and city on that HP before he can attach the stock.