The first batch of Rarlins ship today!

BreechFace said:

I would love a 16" 450 Bushmaster lever, especially for suppressed shooting. I wouldn't be able to use monolithic subsonic expanding bullets, would need to find a nice SP or Cast bullet for the tube mag but that's the least of my worries. I know it's sacrilege but a nice 3x micro red dot with etched reticle (shown below) would be the ticket for light and fast, primary arms makes a nice one with a chevron would be nice if it had a few bullet drops below for dialing in subs rather than the ranging marks.

View attachment 1049935

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I haven't looked to heavily into it, but I'm pretty sure people are pushing 405's to just under supersonic speeds in the 450. I think that PA 3x prism scope would be a good match as well.

I think I've also seen 700gr bullets pushed to about 900fps in the 45-70 too, that's alot of thwack.

Decisions, decisions... I've got a long wait to make up my mind at least.

gotboostvr said:

I haven't looked to heavily into it, but I'm pretty sure people are pushing 405's to just under supersonic speeds in the 450. I think that PA 3x prism scope would be a good match as well.

I think I've also seen 700gr bullets pushed to about 900fps in the 45-70 too, that's alot of thwack.

Decisions, decisions... I've got a long wait to make up my mind at least.

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The 405's would be where I would start for a SP.

I have 425 Maker's Bullets monolithic subsonic expanding bullets to load up and test. They are spendy pills, but they will eventually be used on whitetail, I'll find a good cast bullet of similar weight that will match the trajectory to practice and plink with is my intention.

I was provided with Maker's load of 19gr of H110/W296, COAL 2.250" provides 1,050fps. With a G1 BC of 0.34 they should do well at some distance.

gotboostvr said:

I haven't looked to heavily into it, but I'm pretty sure people are pushing 405's to just under supersonic speeds in the 450. I think that PA 3x prism scope would be a good match as well.

I think I've also seen 700gr bullets pushed to about 900fps in the 45-70 too, that's alot of thwack.

Decisions, decisions... I've got a long wait to make up my mind at least.

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450 Bushmaster belongs in an AR action IMHO. If I was going to go with a 45 caliber lever gun I would want 45/70. I have pushed resized 405 gr JSP intended for 45/70 in my 450 Bushmaster to 1050 fps.

mcb said:

450 Bushmaster belongs in an AR action IMHO. If I was going to go with a 45 caliber lever gun I would want 45/70. I have pushed resized 405 gr JSP intended for 45/70 in my 450 Bushmaster to 1050 fps.

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I don't need the length or the additional powder space of the 45/70, I'll take greater magazine capacity and efficiency. If I need to hit something hard like a full power 45/70 I'll use one of my high powered rifles. I can see how most would see it your way, but the 45/70 just doesn't interest me much. Supersonic 450 Bushmaster pushing 250gr. to 2,200fps is enough for my big bore needs.

I look at the 450 Bushmaster as a Ruger Only +P load 45 Colt, if Ruger came out with a lever in 450 Bushmaster, I may end up selling my Win94 in 45 Colt.

But variety is the spice of life.

mcb said:

450 Bushmaster belongs in an AR action IMHO. If I was going to go with a 45 caliber lever gun I would want 45/70. I have pushed resized 405 gr JSP intended for 45/70 in my 450 Bushmaster to 1050 fps.

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If I went with a 450, I'd be doing it with an AR. I've got a spare lower sitting around already and the price of a BCA upper is what, 25% of the new Rugers?

It's tempting out of a bolt action like the Americans, but even those are twice the price of the BCA uppers.

ThomasT said:

The new Marlin is expensive but when you consider what you are getting compared to what other 45-70s are selling for I think its a bargain. Early in this thread I posted a GB link showing some of the wild ass prices being asked for other brands and older Marlins so if I were in the market for another 45-70 (I'm not) I would be all over this gun.

I hope they come out with a 30-30 that has Ballard rifling so its easier to shoot lead bullet loads.
And while Ruger is making these in 45-70s maybe they will see the way clear to make them in 444 Marlin with 1-20 twist. I would be all over one of those price be damned.

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The CEO has specifically stated that while the lead off rifle is the SBL that the 336 in .30-30 (and I believe he also mentioned "other" calibers) is on the way. And Micro-Groove is dead. All centerfire Marlins will have button rifled barrels as do other Ruger products. He did not mention the Model 60 RF so cannot say there.

Do not want a .45-70, just wait a little longer. Give them time to fill the catalog out.

For those of us that reload the .45-70 is a dream. Load it way down subsonic for plinking, load it up for about anything. There is a huge pent up demand for the SBL by working men and women who guide or work in bear country. They are not buying the SBL because it is pretty, they are buying it because it can live in rough country with little or no care and kill mean things with aplomb. The SBL is the working man's gun. It is going to take a while for the market for the SBL to cool off even with new rifles pumping out. Bad medicine for mean things:



I have been offered crazy money for my SBL and I should have sold it. Maybe . I will take another, I need one for both arms and I want a stainless 1894 in .44 Magnum. Or maybe .45 Colt if the twist rate is corrected.

Edit to add, I do not think the .450 Bushmaster will be a good fit for a lever gun. No rim and high pressures relative to .45-70. Might be close to get that to work. I can see the appeal of something along that line in a lever gun. If Marlin/Ruger will correct the twist for the .45 Colt it could be close. But that is the 1894 which is not as strong, ??, as the 336/1895 action.

3C

Tallinar said:

Don’t want to hijack the thread, but I think it’s important to note that cowboy action folks run their rifles to the edge as race guns, with slicked up actions to run as buttery smooth as possible, with as short a stroke as possible to shave every possible fraction of a second. Model 73’s, 94’s, and even 92’s are better candidates for this.

I think it’s a fair critique to say the Henry Big Boys are not good candidates for race guns if you’re serious about competitive cowboy action. I don’t think that means the Henry should be dismissed altogether.

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Henry isn't a Winchester clone except for maybe the Henry original that they started with. I don't think they are well represented in the cowboy games. Marlins are Marlins and they've been around as long as Winchester. They just don't get the press like Winchester. I've read (not a CA shooter) that the 73 Winchester (Miroku) clones can be tuned to be extremely fast. Those seem to be the bulk of the latest Winchester offerings for CAS.

BreechFace said:

I would love a 16" 450 Bushmaster lever, especially for suppressed shooting. I wouldn't be able to use monolithic subsonic expanding bullets, would need to find a nice SP or Cast bullet for the tube mag but that's the least of my worries. I know it's sacrilege but a nice 3x micro red dot with etched reticle (shown below) would be the ticket for light and fast, primary arms makes a nice one with a chevron would be nice if it had a few bullet drops below for dialing in subs rather than the ranging marks.

View attachment 1049935

Click to expand...

450 Bushmaster was designed for the AR. Better look at a rimmed cartridge for your lever rifle. Not many out there using rimless straight wall cartridge.

45-70 got called up again for lever duty because it's a potent 45 with a rim. 450 bushmaster can't match it when it's loaded for high pressure.

Consider this before you drop money on a 450 Bush lever gun. Marlin has a gem that just hit the market.

https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/45-70-vs-450-bushmaster-cartridge-clash/376560

CoalTrain49 said:

450 Bushmaster was designed for the AR. Better look at a rimmed cartridge for your lever rifle. Not many out there using rimless straight wall cartridge.

45-70 got called up again for lever duty because it's a potent 45 with a rim. 450 bushmaster can't match it when it's loaded for high pressure.

Consider this before you drop money on a 450 Bush lever gun. Marlin has a gem that just hit the market.

https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/45-70-vs-450-bushmaster-cartridge-clash/376560

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Nothing precludes a lever from being chambered in a rimless cartridge other than tradition, plain and simple. I don’t want a 45-70, especially when I can do 90%+ of its work with a 450 Bushmaster with the benefits I mentioned before. It also flatters my components for 45 ACP, and 45 Colt.

I stand by my desire for a 450 Bushmaster lever gun. The 450 Bushmaster is just getting going and with the nature of the 45 Colt being hamstrung by old firearms it makes a nice replacement to those who like “Ruger Only” loads.

And that article pigeon holes the 450 Bushmaster into only having bullet weights between 158-300grs which is false. Not even speaking about reloading and casting which opens up all kinds of options on bullet weights but there are offerings from Lehigh Defense, Makers Bullets, Black Butterfly and I believe Buffalo Bore outside of their bullet weight window. Like many gun rags they aren’t worth much more than the paper they are written on, often leaving out details to serve a point or just out of sheer ignorance.

Just day dreaming but for straight wall states maybe a new cartridge based on necking up the .30-30 case. A mini .444 Marlin. And use the 336/1895 action instead of the 1894.

Oh, and speaking of mini, how about a stainless steel, big loop, pistol grip carbine of 16 inches barrel (threaded), grey laminate stock Model 39A in .22 Magnum, a mini-SBL! I need a little one to go with my big one please . I would fork over a bunch of money for one.

James

3Crows said:

Just day dreaming but for straight wall states maybe a new cartridge based on necking up the .30-30 case. A mini .444 Marlin. And use the 336/1895 action instead of the 1894.

Oh, and speaking of mini, how about a stainless steel, big loop, pistol grip carbine of 16 inches barrel (threaded), grey laminate stock Model 39A in .22 Magnum, a mini-SBL! I need a little one to go with my big one please . I would fork over a bunch of money for one.

James

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Biggest bullet you would get in a blown out 3030 is probably 40cal. 3030 are about .415 ish at the base.

troy fairweather said:

Biggest bullet you would get in a blown out 3030 is probably 40cal. 3030 are about .415 ish at the base.

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When I said a mini .444 I meant a scaled down cartridge with a straight wall and a rimmed base, looking like a .444 but much smaller including smaller caliber. So, a .388 or .40. The case could taper and still be straight wall for that purpose. I will settle for the .375 Winchester or .38-55. But I will doubt we will see that. Another, no more ideal than the .450, is the .350 Legend. It could be interesting in a lever gun -------.

3C

3Crows said:

When I said a mini .444 I meant a scaled down cartridge with a straight wall and a rimmed base, looking like a .444 but much smaller including smaller caliber. So, a .388 or .40. The case could taper and still be straight wall for that purpose. I will settle for the .375 Winchester or .38-55. But I will doubt we will see that. Another, no more ideal than the .450, is the .350 Legend. It could be interesting in a lever gun -------.

3C

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I'll be happy with 35rem or at least 38-55.

BreechFace said:

Nothing precludes a lever from being chambered in a rimless cartridge other than tradition, plain and simple. I don’t want a 45-70, especially when I can do 90%+ of its work with a 450 Bushmaster with the benefits I mentioned before. It also flatters my components for 45 ACP, and 45 Colt.

I stand by my desire for a 450 Bushmaster lever gun. The 450 Bushmaster is just getting going and with the nature of the 45 Colt being hamstrung by old firearms it makes a nice replacement to those who like “Ruger Only” loads.

And that article pigeon holes the 450 Bushmaster into only having bullet weights between 158-300grs which is false. Not even speaking about reloading and casting which opens up all kinds of options on bullet weights but there are offerings from Lehigh Defense, Makers Bullets, Black Butterfly and I believe Buffalo Bore outside of their bullet weight window. Like many gun rags they aren’t worth much more than the paper they are written on, often leaving out details to serve a point or just out of sheer ignorance.

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Maybe someone will make one for you some day. In the meantime the market thinks a lot more people will want a 45-70 lever. Personally, as a reloader, I don't see that much difference other than headspace issues with a rimless cartridge. If you load 30 carbine you'll understand that case length matters.....a lot.

CoalTrain49 said:

Maybe someone will make one for you some day. In the meantime the market thinks a lot more people will want a 45-70 lever. Personally, as a reloader, I don't see that much difference other than headspace issues with a rimless cartridge. If you load 30 carbine you'll understand that case length matters.....a lot.

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Agreed, headspacing on the case mouth does provide more diligence in measuring case length and crimp amount; but nothing earth shaking when it comes to reloading.

Here is a leveracton is 450BM:
https://www.bighornarmory.com/product/model-90-460-sw/
Well maybe the 460 S&W but close enough if you really need one.

I would love to see Ruger bring back the .38/55 but I suspect that they will be plenty busy filling orders on 45/70's, .30/30's, and perhaps some revolver calibers.

I know Marlin is Marlin.

But I much prefer Ruglin over Rarlin as Remlin could also be Rarlin.

Once the market stabilizes, I'll likely be getting a stainless 45-70 to offset my blued Remlin. That Remington "bluing" is a rust attractant. Both my 336 and 1895 rust from being inside, let alone the elements.

As far as 450BM, I don't see a need for a lever gun even if they made it work. It doesn't go as heavy as 45-70 and the ammo isn't much cheaper.

A cheap AR upper gets that 450BM fix and has the advantage of semi auto... Which is the whole point for it

I wish they would have started off with a blued, walnut stocked 30-30 at a lower price point.

3Crows said:

I will settle for the .375 Winchester or .38-55.

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38-55 & 25-35 would be excellent - These share basic dimensions since they (and the 30-30 & 32) are all derivatives of the 38-55. Obviously, where the bullet seats is different

I hope they produce the dark series, I prefer that over the henry.

Marlin (Ruger) is going to go with what sold in the past. That was their 95, 336 and 94. I predict that next up will be 336 chambered in 30-30 and 35 Rem. All those cowboy shooters may have to wait awhile for their 44's and 38's. We have deer hunters forming lines for medium range rifles with some punch. The cowboy action shooters have enough Italian and Japanese 73 clones to keep them occupied.

I predict the big seller will be the 35 Rem. I never was too impressed with the
30-30 as a HS kid hunting deer in the SW. I had a 30-40 model 95 that worked well past 100 yds.

Judging by the availability of .35 Remington or lack there of. I don't see it coming about unless Marlin can convince Winchester and Remington Ammo to start producing more of it and regularly. Me personally i still want a plinker lever gun, I dont hunt. So one offered on a cheaper handgun caliber like 9mm or .40 would my preference.

That said I'll be keeping an eye for this new 1895SBL and will grab one. Just not looking forward to taking on 45-70 and how pricey it is. Does Wal-Mart still sell 45-70?

I prefer "Ruglins" so that the saviors at least get half the letters.

My only hope is they make nice rifles. Cost is what it is, nothing's cheap. When I was in need (want) of a 45-70 I intended on getting an 1895, looked at 3 different samples on the shelf, all were among remlins poorest examples , you could stick a quarter between wood and metal and the interior of the receiver looked have been cut by an angry squirrel with a dremel. I got a Henry for cheaper and 6+ years later still love that rifle.

I've got high hopes for the ruger made guns, if we're looking for robust, well built guns not many do as well as ruger. I think the 39a is dead, hope I'm wrong but when they were still making them a few years back they cost something like $3,000 if I remember right. At the same time you could buy a super clean old one for $1,000 or so and the old one likely would be better quality. Can't say for sure because I've never held a post 2000s 39a.

BreechFace said:

Nothing precludes a lever from being chambered in a rimless cartridge other than tradition, plain and simple.

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That just isn't true. A taper crimp has no business in a tubular magazine. I got into this argument elsewhere and took a factory 225gr .450 cartridge and just gave a couple light taps with a lightweight two face gunsmithing hammer and easily pushed the bullet down into the case. You'll never see a factory .450BM levergun with a tubular magazine.

BreechFace said:

The 450 Bushmaster is just getting going and with the nature of the 45 Colt being hamstrung by old firearms it makes a nice replacement to those who like “Ruger Only” loads.

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If you handload, this is a total non-issue and you get to keep your rim and roll crimp. Not to mention FAR more options for loading data.