What's your secret for very tight groups.
- Thread starter Thomasss
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CoalCrackerAl
Member
Good sturdy bench. And a sturdy rest. Shooter relaxed and proper breathing. Good glass if using a scope. And accurate firearm as already mentioned.
JFrank
Member
Run out is pretty much a non factor
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Nature Boy
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You have to have a rifle, shooter and load that's capable of producing tiny groups
Just focusing on the load, I follow this sequence:
1. Bullet selection
2. optimal powder charge (accuracy node)
3. Seating depth
4. primer selection
I used to sweat runout, but after I solved it at the root cause in my reloading process I don't even measure it anymore
Just focusing on the load, I follow this sequence:
1. Bullet selection
2. optimal powder charge (accuracy node)
3. Seating depth
4. primer selection
I used to sweat runout, but after I solved it at the root cause in my reloading process I don't even measure it anymore
In addition to all that has been mentioned above, I'd add something quite obvious but integral to consistently tight groups. That would be a trigger that has a crisp break with no creep or grit. The amount of break is entirely subjective to the shooter, however.
Best -
Bayou52
Best -
Bayou52
redcon1
member
Practice is probably important. Having reloads that are "tuned" for an accuracy node is probably important. Having a decent rifle helps. A good trigger and barrel are certainly going to help. Runout seems to be a debatable issue. I still hate runout and try to minimize it. I don't end up reloading my rounds too many times for my SA rifles so I think maybe neck tension doesn't have a chance to become a big issue for me. I don't neck turn either. It didn't do anything for me to justify it when I experimented with it but YMMV. Lots of magnification and a steady rest help.
Varminterror
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No secrets here. Consistent neck tension, forgiving powder charge (in a node), quality bullets and brass. That’s typically all I need to achieve the groups I need (sub-half MOA). Turning the remaining tiny knobs from there, seating depth first, primer type (I typically rework my powder nodes here), water capacity sorting brass, neck turning. Relatively in that order.
Beyond buying quality brass and using Wilson seaters, I gave up on “run out” or “concentricity several years ago. It’s just too easy to prove its influence isn’t significant enough to chase.
Beyond buying quality brass and using Wilson seaters, I gave up on “run out” or “concentricity several years ago. It’s just too easy to prove its influence isn’t significant enough to chase.
wbm
Member
25 Yards.
sparkyv
Member
In a rimfire, all these plus high quality match ammo that the rifle "likes".
Atavar
Member
It’s not "a" secret, it’s a whole laundry list of secrets, all of which have to be perfect and exactly the same every time.
I would go so far as to say that doing the same thing every time is more important than any secret recipe.
I would go so far as to say that doing the same thing every time is more important than any secret recipe.
horsemen61
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Ttrl
jmorris
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Really tiny groups come from a combination of variables all coming together.
My smallest ones have been shot with purpose built benchrest rifles, using ammunition made for the particular chamber, setting in/on good bags/rests, using 2oz triggers to not impart any movement into the rifle/rest pulling it and optics over 30x to aim with.
After that wind and compensation for it is the work.
FWIW I have had some ammunition that wound up with quite a bit of runout only to find it shot 3/8” 5 shot groups at 100 yards. What I found is that the bullet runout was corrected when the round was chambered. I just didn’t know it until I measured a round, then chambered and ejected it to check it again, that the rifle was correcting the issue.
Would certainly be a case for people that didn’t think it was a contributing factor at all, if they experienced the same.
My smallest ones have been shot with purpose built benchrest rifles, using ammunition made for the particular chamber, setting in/on good bags/rests, using 2oz triggers to not impart any movement into the rifle/rest pulling it and optics over 30x to aim with.
After that wind and compensation for it is the work.
FWIW I have had some ammunition that wound up with quite a bit of runout only to find it shot 3/8” 5 shot groups at 100 yards. What I found is that the bullet runout was corrected when the round was chambered. I just didn’t know it until I measured a round, then chambered and ejected it to check it again, that the rifle was correcting the issue.
Would certainly be a case for people that didn’t think it was a contributing factor at all, if they experienced the same.
All kidding aside, my biggest obstacle to tiny groups is ME. I am the biggest source of error. I figure the best way to solve that problem would be to go to an Unlimited Class railgun, but I actually enjoy the struggle so I will keep on shooting by hand.
Bullet run out simply is a measurement of how close the bullet is to the longitudinal axis of the cartridge. Also know as Total Run Out, it is measured in thousandth of an inch with a device that allows you to spin the cartridge while watching the needle of a dial indicator. If you seat the bullet crooked, you will have a high run out.
If you were measuring the run out of a wheel, and the wheel is perfectly round, the measured run out would be zero.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Let somebody else shoot them for me
1KPerDay
Member
My secret to one-hole groups is to shoot one-shot groups.
My Cooper certainly does that because I have tested it. Tight throat. It doesn't always work that way if the throat of the rifle is worn or made a bit loose. I suppose you could test a loose chamber by purposely cocking a bullet off ten thousandths and then seeing how much that throat will take out.
And it saves ammo. I like it.
jmorris
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I don’t think I would intentionally mess up my ammunition, was simply suggesting one might check their ammunition before and after chambering, just to see if it made any difference. I imagine most will not change but some combinations can.
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