Have we made progress?? Are we safer?

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Australian410hunter

Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
97
Location
Australia
I consider myself lucky. I grew up in the age when the veterans of World Wars were still here, when you could own a shotgun, or rifle, without a licence. That was a time when you could buy some .22lr, or .410 from the corner shop in rural Australia.
I rode my unregistered motorbike through neighbour's unfenced farms, without concern. I rode it with a rifle slung over my shoulder, without a worry, when going to friends (no-one screamed, got cross eyed, and called the Police). One friend's father kept his rifles on display, above small child height, in the breezeway; no-one touched them without permission.
When I got a car, and roamed further afield, to friends to go hunting/spotlighting hares, the rifle/s were in a bag on the backseat, without concern.
I started with a single shot .410, and a single shot .22lr. I received instructions on their safe use, duck hunting, hare hunting, shooting foxes, etc from family and friends. No-one thought it unusual to teach a young boy of about 6-8 years about gun safety, and use (I don't remember exactly how old I was).
Now, in our world of licenses, people scared of guns, and loud noises, have we made progress? Was the loss of freedom worth it? Have we lost more than we gained? Have we gone too far?
 
Yes we've gone too far. Australia has really screwed itself worse than the US but we can't go into detail about those sort of things on THR.

IMO, it's all up to us to teach and educate our young family members about freedom.

Staying on topic, we can still teach our kids and grandkids hunting and shooting skills and safety. Some kids are so wrapped up in the virtual world they don't understand consequences of actions. Gun safety and training, done right, is a great skill to learn IMO. And a kid shooting a 22 for the first time is usually having a great time and will never forget the experience.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think on this forum you will get many answers that say too far, on another forum you will get a not far enough.

Oz is really in a rough place from what us yanks see in the news.

I think we need to figure out what has brought us here, and we need to correct that.

Lets just say I am glad there are more days behind me then in front, it is not going to get better, and I do think there will be a great reset, and getting rid of the items we talk about on this forum is a key part of stopping that reset.
 
I am 35 so I experienced the tail end of it here. I remember when I was a young kid it was a regular sight to see pickups in town with a shotgun rack in the back window. I doubt the doors were locked on most of them when parked on the street. Those days are long gone now. When I was on the high school sporting clay team we used to drive right to school and get on the bus behind the gym with our shotguns. Then some parent saw that and complained and from then on we had to drive ourselves to the match. I remember reading a Gary Paulson book where he wrote about taking his shotgun to school and putting it in his locker so he could go duck hunting after school.
 
someguy2800 said:
I am 35 so I experienced the tail end of it here. I remember when I was a young kid it was a regular sight to see pickups in town with a shotgun rack in the back window. I doubt the doors were locked on most of them when parked on the street. Those days are long gone now. When I was on the high school sporting clay team we used to drive right to school and get on the bus behind the gym with our shotguns. Then some parent saw that and complained and from then on we had to drive ourselves to the match. I remember reading a Gary Paulson book where he wrote about taking his shotgun to school and putting it in his locker so he could go duck hunting after school.
Click to expand...
Our Middle school Principal (a Nam vet and collector) brought in and passed around an '03 Springfield and a stripper clip full of live ammo for History class Show-N-Tell once.
I gifted one of my HS teachers a bayonet for his birthday. He mounted it on the wall behind his desk.
Of course, this was before teachers' lounges became American Communist Party meeting halls......
 
I'm going to answer your questions with a questions.
Are gun related deaths down in Australia?
Are mass shootings down in Australia?
Can you still legally buy firearms?

In the US we have about 40,000 gun related deaths a year most of them are suicide. We have a mental health problem in the US and a violence problem in the US. These are the issues that we need to work on!
 
In the late '60's I took my shotgun to high school. A bunch of guys would go to the town dump and shoot feral pigeons and rats for target practice after school. It wasn't until my junior year that we had to put our guns in the school safe. No student complained, we just did it. In the 1990's I took my son out of high school in order for him to go deer hunting. The principal told me it hurt my son's association with other students to take him deer hunting. I told him it hurt his association with my relatives if I did not. Nothing more on the subject was ever said between us.
 
Back in the '70s (San Franciscograd, Californiastan, Estados Unidos) we brought guns to school but they stayed in the trunk. We went to the range in Pacifica (across the county line in San Mateo) after school. No one though of using it against our fellow students or teachers.

As to the question are we safer? Fyrearms Control was never about safety but about disarmement. A police state is incompatible with an armed populace.
 
Nope. Here in New York their new "red flag laws" that were supposed to save all kinds of people's lives just failed spectacularly.
Guy had all the "red flags" or warning signs and then some, all the proper people and agencies were aware of the situation.
Just goes to show the government can't and won't keep you safe if giving up rights for safety. Worst deal ever.

Again in California passed a "red flag law" and have something like 25,000 people who need their guns taken away. But law enforcement won't go after them because "the state doesn't have the resources" according to the states attorney general.
They want these laws passed so they can feel good about doing something and then don't lift a finger to enforce them.
 
Last edited:
Have we gone too far on gun control legislation? Yes.

I see why. As technology advanced, daily life became more separated from the natural world. Fewer people struggled to get by. As a result, life became safer for a large majority. They got used to this. Generations were born into this safe way of life, with no concept about the raw realities of nature, or of the acts desperate people would willingly commit. Then as things became more dangerous within society, many of these people were willing to see objects rather than subjects as the root of the violence. And if an object is seen as the problem, removing it is seen as the solution.

Of course, that doesn't address the violence issue, just the choice of weapon. But some of them just can't seem to understand that. Maybe they should take a vacation to the UK, go see Big Ben, get a good stabbing and hit in the face with a brick, visit a hospital, and come home with a fresh perspective.
 
Oz is a complicated situation. It mirrors Texas is so many ways (if needing to squint a little at the numbers).

For those not aware, Australia has about the land area of the continental US, and just a shade more population than Texas (around 30 millions versus 27 millions).

Like Texas, 80% of the population is in relatively dense cities, the folks "in between" have a lot of "between" around.
The rules that make (partial) sense for crowded Sydney or Perth or Canberra or the like (ditto Dallas or Austin or Houston) are utterly senseless out in the countryside. And in neither case is that "countryside" much further away than the city limits.

It's entirely possible to be at the edges of an urban area and have to deal with venomous snakes (in either location). What would make sense to the country folk now seems to horrify the city dwellers.

And, that may be the key of it. The perceptions of the people may "drive" this. They may not. It's well beyond THR's scope to discuss.
 
I live in Arkansas, so…..No.
We have open carry which wasn’t a serious thought in the 1970’s of my growing up and thinking with depth. But, we did have pickup trucks with loaded gun racks in the school parking lot which you won’t see now.
The gun laws reflect the country, state by state, we are certainly more divided than we used to be. “Polarized” might be a better word. I think we’re not better for it.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
The PRC thanks you for making your transition to the New Greater Sino-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere that much easier for them.
Click to expand...

I have a relative that works at a Chinese owned company that employees about 300 people. About half come from China, spend 2 years then rotate out, they have a translator and he’s learned some Chinese so they communicate, at least a little.
He has told me, that they tell him in China they celebrate “safety” similar to how we celebrate freedom, which I think is absurd.

To the point of the OP most people here will say, yes we’ve gone to far but I assure you tens of millions of Americans want to go further. Millions supported giving the Government to power to forcibly inject you with something against your will. Just think about that for a second.
 
WisBorn said:
In the US we have about 40,000 gun related deaths a year most of them are suicide. We have a mental health problem in the US and a violence problem in the US. These are the issues that we need to work on!
Click to expand...

We Americans should all be in straight jackets and locked, padded rooms! :what:
 
WisBorn said:
In the US we have about 40,000 gun related deaths a year most of them are suicide. We have a mental health problem in the US and a violence problem in the US. These are the issues that we need to work on!
Click to expand...
And this morning, I read an op-ed piece by an historian (African-American) linking our country's "relaxed gun laws" to basically, institutionalized racism ("this country was founded upon") and the need for White Americans to keep Black Americans in check -- she actually came right out and stated gun-ownership in this country is directly related to "white replacement theory" -- apparently, yet another reason Americans buy guns.

When gun-control efforts become about fighting white supremacy -- which, if you're paying attention, is what's coming out of the Buffalo murders -- Houston, we have a problem.
 
They tried to solve a software problem with new hardware.

That is a great way to bring on temporary solutions. Then more temporary solutions are enacted to address the first failed temporary solutions.

We dont need new laws or regulations. We need people who are fit to live in a society of existing laws. We need to make those people comply to the norms of our society with only a few exceptions. Not making everyone an exception.
 
DeepSouth said:
I have a relative that works at a Chinese owned company that employees about 300 people. About half come from China, spend 2 years then rotate out, they have a translator and he’s learned some Chinese so they communicate, at least a little.
He has told me, that they tell him in China they celebrate “safety” similar to how we celebrate freedom, which I think is absurd.

To the point of the OP most people here will say, yes we’ve gone to far but I assure you tens of millions of Americans want to go further. Millions supported giving the Government to power to forcibly inject you with something against your will. Just think about that for a second.
Click to expand...

Sad.
 
earlthegoat2 said:
We dont need new laws or regulations. We need people who are fit to live in a society of existing laws. We need to make those people comply to the norms of our society.
Click to expand...
Gun control laws directly affect only those citizens who obey laws already. If you're here, on this forum, you know this.

earlthegoat2 said:
We need to make those people comply to the norms of our society.
Click to expand...
Making more laws has not worked to get people to comply to the norms of our society. We need to create more people who are more likely to comply with the norms of our society, which starts with changing our culture, how we educate and socialize our children at an early age.

Alas, we are all just preaching to the choir here. Educating the electorate and holding our elected leaders accountable is our only hope. Because thus far, we are far less safe now than ever before...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Old Dog said:
Gun control laws directly affect only those citizens who obey laws already. If you're here, on this forum, you know this.

Making more laws has not worked to get people to comply to the norms of our society. We need to create more people who are more likely to comply with the norms of our society, which starts with changing our culture, how we educate and socialize our children at an early age.

Alas, we are all just preaching to the choir here. Educating the electorate and holding our elected leaders accountable is our only hope. Because thus far, we are far less safe now than ever before...
Click to expand...

I completely agree. Unfortunately, our society also seems to pretty firmly believe in the right to reproduce, and raise their little hooligans into whatever kind of thugs they see fit. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I'd rather see licensing to raise children, than licensing to own guns. All the problems in society start out as children, and are usually created by lack of appropriate parenting and education.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Old Dog said:
And this morning, I read an op-ed piece by an historian (African-American) linking our country's "relaxed gun laws" to basically, institutionalized racism ("this country was founded upon") and the need for White Americans to keep Black Americans in check -- she actually came right out and stated gun-ownership in this country is directly related to "white replacement theory" -- apparently, yet another reason Americans buy guns.

When gun-control efforts become about fighting white supremacy -- which, if you're paying attention, is what's coming out of the Buffalo murders -- Houston, we have a problem.
Click to expand...
Yes, like I said a violence problem. What are we doing about the white supremacy that the Buffalo murderer acted on or the mental illness that the New York subway shooter acted on. Both of these shooters were already under the authorities radar!
 
WisBorn said:
Yes, like I said a violence problem. What are we doing about the white supremacy that the Buffalo murderer acted on or the mental illness that the New York subway shooter acted on. Both of these shooters were already under the authorities radar!
Click to expand...

Plus the Texas church shooter. Strange how many nut jobs government agencies know about but just can’t quite stop the massacre. I wonder what’s up with that? Makes a person think?????

There’s no way known nut jobs could be manipulated online to haul off and do evil deeds is there?
 
There are too many labels near-automatically applied to anti-social behavior.

The recent CA church shooting was a PRC "immigrant" who had repeatedly stated that he "hated Taiwanese" and decided to take that hatred out on some Taiwanese Presbyterians. Take the labels away: A nutter who hated pople found a group of those people and tried to slaughter them all.

The Buffalo shooter was a nutter who hated people. He lived in a rural area, so he had to drive 200 miles to find enough of his hated group to shoot. A nutter. The labels do not matter.

We are told, repeatedly, that the labels matter. And yet, in the same breath, the too used is to blame?

Safer or not may not be the issue. Stupider may be the issue. As in allowing for willful ignorance, and that may be the difference.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

P
  • Locked
Australia gun ban
Replies
1
Views
1K
Jorg Nysgerrig
J
4
  • Locked
Jimmy Carter on Why We Need A Ban: Assault Weapons ARe Just For Killing Police
Replies
23
Views
1K
Officers'Wife
Officers'Wife
R
  • Locked
What if pro-gun folks wrote the laws?
Replies
8
Views
747
Crashbox
C
A
  • Locked
Travel Warning: Australia
2
Replies
48
Views
3K
fallingblock
F
S
  • Locked
Gun laws around the world.
Replies
8
Views
1K
ezypikns
E
Back
Top