Armed civilian stops mass shooting

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Good news. It goes to my basic point that businesses open to the general public should not be able to ban carry. MUH PROPERTY RIGHTZ is BS. First the right of SD to protect your life trumps the rights to your property. Second, your property rights for a business are tightly constrained. You are zoned, health restrictions, taxed, can't discriminate - so MUH RIGHTZ is just a rant about something that makes no real world sense. Property bans are a deliberate tool to make carry useless as are BS sensitive areas. The only sensitive areas should be technical - like the MRI room - and not emotional. Ban religious places as not offend some deity, ban libraries as you have to be quiet in them, etc.

You don't have to have a business. If you want not to serve protected classes, tough - don't have a business. Same with SD rights.

The blue states will use the reverse property ban (banned until a proactive sign - the flip of places like TX) to make carry useless. I wonder if Clarence can figure this out in the next decision.
 
AlexanderA said:
From a moral standpoint, the right thing to do is for the armed bystander to intervene, to save lives. But from a legal standpoint, the basis of being armed is personal self defense. Every armed citizen is not a substitute, amateur, self-appointed policeman. As laudable as this person's actions were, if as a society we go down that road, it will ultimately lead to chaos.
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Judging by the police actions in Uvalde (standing around while children are slaughtered) I prefer the (possible) alternative.
 
With the new law coming on board Sept. 1, the good guy would in felony land in NYS. As far as the bodega incident, Smerconish on his show had a NYC lawyer who doubted that one could get a jury to convict. Such incidents would be perfect for jury nullification.
 
GEM said:
With the new law coming on board Sept. 1, the good guy would in felony land in NYS. As far as the bodega incident, Smerconish on his show had a NYC lawyer who doubted that one could get a jury to convict. Such incidents would be perfect for jury nullification.
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Hiring a defense lawyer ain't cheap, especially for a person with a minimum wage job. And don't forget, just one trial probably won't end the persecution, Wokes will just come up with new and different charges.
 
Slamfire said:
Hiring a defense lawyer ain't cheap, especially for a person with a minimum wage job. And don't forget, just one trial probably won't end the persecution, Wokes will just come up with new and different charges.
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My cousin had to get a defense attorney for charges (not firearm related) that were dropped once he went to trial and it still cost $30K about 20 years ago. I will be hesitant to be a good guy with a gun unless I fear for my life or family's lives.
 
MLee said:
"As time progresses, the number of armed citizens who decide "not today, not here" is just going to increase."

There is another one that isn't being covered by most media.

https://www.fox8live.com/2022/07/16...led-by-customer-convenience-store-police-say/
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And why would "most media" cover this? It isn't a big story. This is a little local new event, a proverbial medium-sized fish in a small pond story. So, one guy killed an armed robber in New Orleans. There isn't much there that would appeal to anyone outside of the New Orleans news market.
 
Just saw this on Reuters and it's excellent news for residents of Indiana:

The shooting comes just weeks after the Indiana Governor Eric Holcomb signed a bill into law repealed the state's handgun permit requirement. Now, anyone 18 years of age or older who is not legally prohibited from firearm possession may generally carry a concealed handgun in public.

The law conflicts with the policy of Simon Property Group, the owner of the Greenwood Park Mall, which prohibits guns on its properties, according to its website. The Indianapolis-based company was unavailable for comment on Monday.

According to Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita, private businesses and property owners may restrict gun owners from carrying a weapon on their property.

Even so, it is generally not against the law to ignore a 'no firearms' sign at a private business, he wrote in the state's Gun Owners' Bill of Rights before the weekend shooting.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/gover...hailed-after-shooting-mall-gunman-2022-07-18/
 
It amazes me how antis are spinning this. The concealed carrier broke "mall rules" not a law, to carry a firearm and stopped a mass killing. That somehow equates to we need more gun laws? The cognitive dissonance some of these people go through to justify how others should live is astounding.
 
I am always happy to hear that violence was stopped by a “good guy” stepping up and saving lives. My concern with more and more people using guns to stop criminals is this:
1) people have different training/skill levels. Even the police miss at a fairly high rate-the more folks shooting, the more bullets flying around to hurt kill people. Not a reason to not help, just a concern
2) what happens when the “Good Samaritan” is the 3rd person on the scene? Shooter, first responder, 2nd responder. What if the first civilian to step up is mistaken for the shooter?
3) what happens when the bullet fired from the “good guys” gun hurts/kills somebody else?
Again- I’m not pushing for no response, just raising some concerns as food for thought. Yes, I am 100% pro 2A, 100% consitutional carry, and 100% for self defense.
 
AlexanderA said:
From a moral standpoint, the right thing to do is for the armed bystander to intervene, to save lives. But from a legal standpoint, the basis of being armed is personal self defense. Every armed citizen is not a substitute, amateur, self-appointed policeman. As laudable as this person's actions were, if as a society we go down that road, it will ultimately lead to chaos.

And this armed bystander was lucky. In a similar situation, he could have made a mistake, an innocent person could have been shot, and then he could be subject to legal liability. If you're going to intervene, you damn well better be sure you are shooting the right person. The police have legal protections, for their actions, that ordinary citizens do not.
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You think he was he paranoid for carrying as you previously suggested? o_O
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/is-concealed-carry-a-lifestyle.903404/page-2
Post #28
"That's how I feel about carrying a gun. If you carry everywhere and at all times, there might be a sneaking suspicion that you might be paranoid."

Thank God that 22 year old was carrying.
I carry everywhere; I call that prepared.
 
Good defense attorneys are not cheap. Good defense attorneys who really know about SD and 2A law are neither cheap, nor common. I figure I'm about as well-prepared to deal with the legal fallout as anyone could reasonably expect to be, but even with that said, I don't envy the young man who stopped that shooting. The road he's on could turn very rocky, very quickly.

I nonetheless applaud him. Three deaths is still too many, but the situation could have been much, much worse.
 
Well I stand corrected. The media is not burying it, and is indeed attempting to spin this as more proof that stricter gun control is needed

https://www.foxnews.com/us/gun-cont...t-indiana-mall-shooter-labeled-good-samaritan

Critics are lashing out after a man carrying a concealed pistol stopped a mass shooting at an Indiana shopping mall, arguing the man should not be called a "Good Samaritan."

"The term, ‘Good Samaritan’ came from a Bible passage of a man from Samaria who stopped on the side of the road to help a man who was injured and ignored," wrote CBS4 traffic anchor Justin Kollar on Twitter Monday. "I cannot believe we live in a world where the term can equally apply to someone killing someone… my God."
Click to expand...
 
GEM said:
With the new law coming on board Sept. 1, the good guy would in felony land in NYS. As far as the bodega incident, Smerconish on his show had a NYC lawyer who doubted that one could get a jury to convict. Such incidents would be perfect for jury nullification.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with a NYC jury , with its potential hyper biases in this day and age, deciding my fate.

Those same hyper biases are why that poor worker was charged by a woke DA.
 
Apparently at this point, he has been thanked in the press by the local police, and the city mayor. That's a start.

As for some of those responding from their favorite armchair via the Internet, they seem to be stumbling over their anti principles instead of focusing on lives that may have been saved at the mall.
 
telomerase said:
New York police need at least 50 rounds per encounter (because of their lawyer triggers).

And could they actually load the one round in the right chamber in a revolver under stress? I think at least a speedloader is reasonable ;)
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Back when I lived in Brooklyn we had a neighborhood police office that fits this description. I could not envision him drawing his gun and competently using it.

All he would do was whine when they would put him on temporary assignment in downtown Brooklyn instead of his normal beat in my relatively safe neighborhood
 
This off duty police officer stopping a possible mass shooting at the Galleria Mall here in Houston. Guy had an AR and 150 rds of ammo, plus a pistol and other stuff. It barely got ANY coverage here much less nationwide (it happened in Feb and it is just now being reported on), I assume because it doesn't fit the gun grabbers' narrative when a competent police officer does his (part-time) job.

 
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If you find yourself charged with manslaughter or murder and in need of a lawyer, you have already failed some hurdles:

1. The police did not believe your story.
2. The prosecutor and/or grand jury did not believe your story.
3. The judge who bound you over to trial had problems with your story.

Don't be surprised if the trial jury fails to believe your story.
 
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