Armed civilian stops mass shooting

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alsaqr said:
If you find yourself charged with manslaughter or murder and in need of a lawyer, you have already failed some hurdles:

1. The police did not believe your story.
2. The prosecutor and/or grand jury did not believe your story.
3. The judge who bound you over to trial had problems with your story.

Don't be surprised if the trial jury fails to believe your story.
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Belief in the story often has nothing to do with it. There are events that are absolutely, 100% clear-cut cases of self defense caught on video and even still, local authorities have charged the victim with murder.

There are both systemic prejudices in large metropolitan areas against self defense, as well as ideological rifts between those who would rather see a person die than kill someone else to protect their own lives.
 
alsaqr said:
If you find yourself charged with manslaughter or murder and in need of a lawyer, you have already failed some hurdles:

1. The police did not believe your story.
2. The prosecutor and/or grand jury did not believe your story.
3. The judge who bound you over to trial had problems with your story.

Don't be surprised if the trial jury fails to believe your story.
Click to expand...
You left out that many progressive DAs are using you as a political pawn to punish gun owners and forward their gun abolitionist agenda. See: Rittenhouse, Kyle.
 
citizenconn said:
This off duty police officer stopping a possible mass shooting at the Galleria Mall here in Houston. Guy had an AR and 150 rds of ammo, plus a pistol and other stuff
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Was the AR carrier exercising his Second Amendment rights or up to no good? That never got sorted out. The weapons carrier was recently sentenced to six months in jail on other charges:

"The accusation and that of a second gun-related incident at the FBI field office a month later resulted in two misdemeanor charges — disorderly conduct and unlawful carrying of a weapon — both of which landed at random in Criminal Court of Law No. 8, leaving Judge Franklin Bynum on Thursday to decide how to punish Herrera for a crime that harmed no one but threatened public safety."

.................................................................................................................................................................................................

”We have a genuinely dangerous situation with a genuinely dangerous person,” Bynum said in court, expressing perplexity that authorities could not secure a more serious charge against Herrera. “This situation, where someone is roaming around a federal building and malls with loaded firearms — and you’re in front of me? Why?”

Man accused of posing a threat at the Galleria charged with misdemeanors (houstonchronicle.com)

 
BlueHeelerFl said:
I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with a NYC jury , with its potential hyper biases in this day and age, deciding my fate.

Those same hyper biases are why that poor worker was charged by a woke DA.
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You bring up a good point, as far as the jury pool goes. I wonder if the “jury of your peers” criteria would allow the case to be moved to an area more friendly to 2A than NYC.
 
“The real hero of the day is the citizen that was lawfully carrying a firearm in that food court and was able to stop the shooter almost as soon as he began," Ison said.


Huh.

Just got back from a weekend trip to Indiana for my 40 year high school reunion. Yep...I was carrying the whole time, like normal. While I skirted the Indianapolis area to and from, I wasn't near the Greenwood Park Mall area, though.

My sister asked me, as I was getting ready to change for the event, if I was going to carry my gun to the reunion. "Yep."

Indiana, like SC, allows people to carry concealed in places that serve alcohol so long as you don't consume. So the fact that the reunion location served alcohol wasn't a concern for me.

This is a consideration whenever I carry: You cannot avail yourself to a concealed firearm for defense if you put yourself in circumstances where you are without one, either because you choose not to carry or because you choose to go to places where you are not allowed to carry.
 
alsaqr said:
Was the AR carrier exercising his Second Amendment rights or up to no good?
Click to expand...
I am assuming the Houston Galleria is a gun free zone. I tried calling to confirm but only got voicemail a couple times. If the guy with the AR was carrying in a gun free zone, I think it would be fair to think he had evil intentions. Even if he was just exercising his rights, how likely is it he would do so with 5 full 30 rd mags? And a marked up Bible highlighting the passages about Sodom and Gomorrah? I don't think I can give this guy the benefit of the doubt.

From your link:
"Guido Herrera walked into the Galleria with a Bible in one hand and a long gun in the other, making his way so very near to where hundreds of young girls were competing in a weekend dance competition.

Radio traffic warning of an armed man made it to an off-duty Houston police sergeant working a security job. That sergeant quickly found and tackled Herrera to the ground before he could reach the Westin Galleria conference area, a brave act on Feb. 5 that may have thwarted a mass shooting, according to prosecutors. As authorities searched him, they found 120 more rounds for the assault-styled weapon and a loaded handgun among his layers of black, baggy clothing — including tactical pants, gloves and a shirt emblazoned with the vigilante Punisher skull logo.

He had bookmarked the Old Testament scripture he clutched to a Genesis passage about Sodom and Gomorrah, officials said."
 
The senior center in my little village was told by upper management in Santa Fe to put up a "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED" sign on the door. I wrote them a letter saying how I felt that sign made us all less safe. It would make us look like an easy score for some creep who might see the sign and know that the place was full of helpless old folks.The people who run the senior center agreed with me completely, and took the sign down. But I doubt if the letter went very far up the chain of command. I've also noticed that a couple of big grocery stores in ABQ that had the NO WEAPONS ALLOWED signs on their door have recently removed them.
 
As for the (predictable) backlash against the guy who shot the bad guy...

I lend little, if any, credence to people who fall back on the story of what a Good Samaritan "actually" is or that Jesus wouldn't kill another person when they, themselves, are part and parcel to either denying the legitimacy of various religions such as Christianity or actively involved in the elimination/suppression of various values rooted in religions such as Christianity.

You cannot, on the one hand, deny/put down/denigrate such while on the other hand using those very same things to support your own views.


"He shouldn't, he shouldn't, he shouldn't..."

Well, guess what? He did. And lives were saved. It could have gone MUCH worse for a variety of reasons, but it didn't.

Make a decision and DO something. The road to success is littered with the squirrels who couldn't make a decision. This guy made a decision, and the consequences are something he'll have to deal with...from the simple fact that the deliberate taking of another human life will have a big impact on him personally, to the court of public opinion, to whatever legal issues may come his way over this. In a split second he made a decision that said "these people's lives are worth the cost to me".

These people aren't upset that this guy saved lives...they're upset that they don't have the full control over everybody's lives that would subjugate others to their own ideologies and will. THAT'S what they're upset about. They're upset that the "no firearms policy" does not carry the weight of law in Indiana (and other states). They're also upset that their belief in "no firearms" policies isn't what they think it is. They're upset that someone had demonstrated very publicly that ordinary citizens who carry firearms can, and do, legitimately use them for defense of themselves and others.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
A little bit on shot distances, etc. 40 yards, 10 rounds, steadied himself on a pole, all after helping direct others to get down and get to safety.
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If true, that's one hell of a shot to take with a pistol under stress AND score good hits. Dude's a better marksman than most police.

Very smart to steady his shots using available support. I can't help but imagine he has done some tactical training, even if informal.
 
General Geoff said:
If true, that's one hell of a shot to take with a pistol under stress AND score good hits. Dude's a better marksman than most police.

Very smart to steady his shots using available support. I can't help but imagine he has done some tactical training, even if informal.
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Vic Stacy shot even farther with a revolver and actually did battle with the gunman (not sure the Hoosier Hero actually exchanged shots with the gunman or not) and Stacy had zero military or police training and had not taking any classes. Here, Stacy overstates the distance in yards when it was apparently in feet, 165.


As far as being better than most police, maybe, maybe not. We don't know how many times he hit the bad guy with his 10 rounds. We don't know if the bad guy was in motion. We don't know if the bad guy was shooting at our hero or if our hero just basically ambushed him (which would be very smart).
 
Spats McGee said:
I don't envy the young man who stopped that shooting. The road he's on could turn very rocky, very quickly.
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Judging by the praise this young man has recieved by the police, the mayor and even the mall management (whose policy he legally ignored) I doubt anything even remotely "rocky" is going to come of this for him.
His actions saved many lives, I like many, am glad he didn't have a lawyer in his ear when this situation occured, more people and families would have undoubtedly suffered immense loss.
The biggest problem he may have going forward is hero worship, and a celebrity status.
 
I disagree. An armed encounter is life changing and killing another human triggers emotions that most of us have never and will never experience. He did well to keep his face off camera, and he would be wise to find a good therapist to work through the emotional trauma.

I hope he is able to put these events in their proper place in the years to come. He performed well, protecting his friend and others in the process, and we support him. In today's society, however, there will inevitably be criticism and the honeymoon will end. I hope he will be sustained by a good support system and the knowledge that he did his best.
 
> Douglas Sapirman of Greenwood, tried to destroy a laptop in a
> heated oven at his apartment that also contained a can of butane,
> Chief James Ison of the Greenwood Police Department said on
> Monday. Authorities also found the suspect's cellphone submerged
> in the toilet.

The man also planned on effectively destroying/burning his entire apartment complex down.
But for the other young man who took him down quickly, this could have been very very ugly.

(and engaging a rifleman while using a pistol at some considerable distance is very high personal risk)
https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...ting-first-victim-had-a-gun-no-time-to-use-it
It's going to get very interesting the more both of these young men's life are laid bare
by the mass media -- to compare and contrast who they were and how they grew up.
 
Can't defend yourself if you never see it coming. Bet if the guy had seen him coming out of the restroom, that's as far as it would've went.

Love how the news is trying to twist the story and turn it into a "see, we told you" event!

Just shake the man's hand, tell him job well done and move along!
 
357 Terms said:
Judging by the praise this young man has recieved by the police, the mayor and even the mall management (whose policy he legally ignored) I doubt anything even remotely "rocky" is going to come of this for him.....
Click to expand...
It doesn't look like he'll be prosecuted, but that does not rule out a wrongful death lawsuit by the family of the deceased. Obviously, I don't know if one is coming or not (my crystal ball quit working years ago), but it's not outside the realm of possibility.
 
Insignificant bill said:
Again we have a location that was posted no firearms allowed. Thank goodness he ignored the signage. That signage just makes it dangerous for everyone.
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It appears the "no guns" signs in Indiana are just suggestions that do not carry the weight of the law. Here in Tennessee, they do and that poses a difficulty each time a person who chooses to carry goes to places like a mall or a movie theater or any place that simply smacks up a sign.

The Tennessee Firearms Association has been trying to get that law canned for years without any back up from the RINO Republicans that run this state.
 
Spats McGee said:
It doesn't look like he'll be prosecuted, but that does not rule out a wrongful death lawsuit by the family of the deceased. Obviously, I don't know if one is coming or not (my crystal ball quit working years ago), but it's not outside the realm of possibility.
Click to expand...
I can say the possibility of a mass murderers family bringing a lawsuit against a young man who stopped said relative from murdering several other people is quite likely not in the realm of possibility.
Of course, a lawyer might want to convince him otherwise to retain a fee.
From what I understand he has consulted with a prominent 2A Indiana attorney (Guy Relford) I doubt much will be needed in terms of legal defense.
 
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