Not a requirement, the gun will come apart without using one.
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Why all the Kimber hate????
- Thread starter Gary W. Strange
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Not a requirement, the gun will come apart without using one.
It’s not a new thing. Been going on for over 20 years with different makers of 1911’s.
‘A bushing wrench takes a lot longer for me to find than a paper clip.
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mljdeckard
Member
Here's what I think.
I call it "Ford Taurus Syndrome". Ford built many Tauruses. (Tauri? Whatever.) Many mechanics worked on many of them. Does this mean that Tauri are bad cars? Or does it mean that a higher number of a given model in a marketplace will have a higher number of problems, even if the actual RATE of problems is not high? A high NUMBER of problems does not equal a high RATE of problems. They are two different things. There was a timeframe in the early to mid 2000s when Kimber made and sold (by far) a higher number of .45 caliber pistols than the rest of the manufacturers combined. And a lot of dealers had a lot of customer complaints, and warranty returns. Does this mean a higher RATE of failures, or a higher NUMBER of failures?
Kimber turned the 1911 market on its head. They started making 1911s at a much higher quality level than cay, an off the shelf Colt for the money, and shattered the perception that you have to spend thousands of dollars to get a 1911 that runs well. It forced the rest of the market to tweak their manufacturing and marketing.
I bought a Kimber Custom II in about 2003. It's the best handgun I have ever owned. I carried it for about 15 years. I also have an RIA and a Para. They both had problems and required returns to the manufacturer and local gunsmith tweaking to run well. (The RIA is now my EDC, I wanted a double-stack 9mm.) I have tried other guns more expensive and less expensive, and I found that quality does not match price. I think the Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in on 1911s at about $1000. (I paid $630 for the Kimber in 2003.) You can spend more, but the return in quality will not likely match the amount you paid. (I rented a Nighthawk Custom at a range, and it jammed on me.) Can you spend more? Yes. Can you get better? Probably. But.....is this level of price and quality good enough for YOU personally? You have to decide. It is for me. Could I tweak it and add things like, a custom mainspring housing? Sure. Have I ever broken the plastic one? No. Not on my list of worries. (I do drop the full-length guide rod from all my 1911s.)
I think a lot of the hate for Kimbers comes from guys who paid more and are annoyed that someone proved it wasn't necessary.
I call it "Ford Taurus Syndrome". Ford built many Tauruses. (Tauri? Whatever.) Many mechanics worked on many of them. Does this mean that Tauri are bad cars? Or does it mean that a higher number of a given model in a marketplace will have a higher number of problems, even if the actual RATE of problems is not high? A high NUMBER of problems does not equal a high RATE of problems. They are two different things. There was a timeframe in the early to mid 2000s when Kimber made and sold (by far) a higher number of .45 caliber pistols than the rest of the manufacturers combined. And a lot of dealers had a lot of customer complaints, and warranty returns. Does this mean a higher RATE of failures, or a higher NUMBER of failures?
Kimber turned the 1911 market on its head. They started making 1911s at a much higher quality level than cay, an off the shelf Colt for the money, and shattered the perception that you have to spend thousands of dollars to get a 1911 that runs well. It forced the rest of the market to tweak their manufacturing and marketing.
I bought a Kimber Custom II in about 2003. It's the best handgun I have ever owned. I carried it for about 15 years. I also have an RIA and a Para. They both had problems and required returns to the manufacturer and local gunsmith tweaking to run well. (The RIA is now my EDC, I wanted a double-stack 9mm.) I have tried other guns more expensive and less expensive, and I found that quality does not match price. I think the Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in on 1911s at about $1000. (I paid $630 for the Kimber in 2003.) You can spend more, but the return in quality will not likely match the amount you paid. (I rented a Nighthawk Custom at a range, and it jammed on me.) Can you spend more? Yes. Can you get better? Probably. But.....is this level of price and quality good enough for YOU personally? You have to decide. It is for me. Could I tweak it and add things like, a custom mainspring housing? Sure. Have I ever broken the plastic one? No. Not on my list of worries. (I do drop the full-length guide rod from all my 1911s.)
I think a lot of the hate for Kimbers comes from guys who paid more and are annoyed that someone proved it wasn't necessary.
Bcwitt
Member
I can turn a bushing w my finger tips. I wish it was that way.
I agree that would be nice, but it is no big deal to me I guess since I’ve been using the paper clips for so long.
Zerodefect
member
I keep a bushing wrench, paper clip, and pen cap (for thumb safety plunger), and 3/32" punch in my cleaning kit.
Big deal.
None of my 1911's have bushings that you can move by hand. Even well greased inside and out.
Big deal.
None of my 1911's have bushings that you can move by hand. Even well greased inside and out.
How is Kimber a high end maker?
They’re a low end maker from a quality standpoint. They just charge mid range money for some style without improving quality.
sevt_chevelle
Member
Nope
Got two 1911s, both Dan Wessons, a heritage and a Valor.
Handling Kimbers at the lgs and range proved I made the right choices.
Lol!
I’ve never heard one person who knows a quality 1911 to ever say Kimber was a good value other than their basic Custom II.
I’ve certainly never heard anybody mention they should have bought a Kimber instead of their Les Baer or Wilson. Just the thought of tjat is hilarious.
Yes they aren’t even close to DW in terms of quality.
Like I said, Kimbers are for amateur 1911 fans who don’t understand quality and like a fancy looking gun.. Whether they admit to it or not, that is Kimber’s target market.
I'll defer to bc1023 as his experience with 1911s, and most other high end pistols is far greater than mine, but I'd put the Point of Diminishing Returns of a 1911 at closer to $2500...what the SA Professional used to cost. The DW offerings might have brought this down a bit
Blkhrt13
Member
Story time, I used to work for a group of brothers who were all into shooting guns. I had a Thompson 1911 that I bought used for 400 bucks. Brother M bought a sequential set of 4 Kimber 1911 match guns. My supervisor, myself and M went to the gun range. M reloaded his own bullets. He bragged and bragged on how cool his kimber was. How it cost him 1200 dollars. We were using his reloads and my Thompson ate everything I stuffed in it. His Kimber jammed every 3-4 rounds. After the 4-5th mag I jokingly held up my 1911. I declared it was 400 bucks. He got ad and chucked it down the range. I almost got fired. The match chambers are too tight and that makes them way finicky. At least that was the case in 2003. I didn’t hold them very high after that. I prefer more function less price. They receive a lot of hate because of the ratio of cost to function. People go by here say just like Taurus. But I have owned and seen Taurus that run with less jams. I can only tell three Kimber stories but they are all from a similar era and similar results.
mljdeckard
Member
I never said any of those things. I said that the benefit vs cost isn't always what people think it is. Buy a TISA. Buy a Wilson Combat. I flat don't care.
Madcap_Magician
Member
It's also hard to say because we've seen such fluctuation in the gun market in the last five years between COVID, BLM riots, election see-sawing, and inflation that prices have been all over the place. Personally I'd say that Dan Wesson is the entry level where you're not really giving up any meaningful quality in 1911s in terms of function, smoothness of action, fit and finish, and base material quality. Lately that's around $1,500-$2,000. There are some quality improvements beyond Dan Wesson, but they're pretty hard to measure, while just holding a Dan Wesson Valor and a non-custom shop Colt or SA or Kimber and you can tell the difference.
But I won't sneer at people who buy cheaper 1911s. Bul Armory makes a fabulous sub-$1,000 1911, the SA Garrison is supposed to be a great buy, and Tisas and Rock Island may not be pretty, but they have a pretty good reputation for reliability given the bargain cost.
Old Dog
Member
Always interesting to note how some folks spend a lot of time and keyboard strokes repeatedly coming in to not only bash the brand, but disparage and insult the folks that buy and own any of the brand.
Repeating something over and over does not make it truth.
nofendertom
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^^^^^^^AGREE^^^^^^^
mljdeckard
Member
I'm not saying others aren't better. I'm saying every buyer needs to decide whether extra expense would matter to them.
mljdeckard
Member
And my number might need to be adjusted a bit for inflation. But I still think there's a BIG gap between what most shooters need or want, and the quality level of the very high-end semi-custom guys.
well I have 2 kimbers a TLE II 10mm I bought from a family friend who got a credit for a sales promotion they ran years back. was gonna trade a 400.00 glock 21 but the kids wife said no and wanted cash... I think I have 450.00 in it and I like it but having said that I have not runit hard by any means. My Second is a .45acp tle II RL TFS that cost me a 10.00 raffle ticket and it sits NIB I have a dozen 1911' and just have not got to her but it looks nice 
Yes
Anyone who thinks $1000 starts diminishing returns on a 1911 clearly doesn’t know the platform at all.
I will say that’s true of Kimber though. Anything more than $1000 for a Kimber and you’re just wasting money
Well I’m this case it’s true whether it’s said at all…
I purchased this in the 1990's, shot the heck out of it, played a lot of quick draw games.
wore out two hammers, the factory replaced both at no cost. The last hammer gave an awful trigger pull, so I took my Kimber to Camp Perry and asked the USMC Armorers to do a trigger job. They told me the sear was worn out, and I went to the Springfield Armory pavilion and purchased a forged sear, and I may have found the surplus trigger there. I have short fingers, my finger length is about a digit less than most guys.The Marines did a great trigger job, love it!
This Kimber is still tight, was always accurate, is series 70, it is a great pistol. I like it.
wore out two hammers, the factory replaced both at no cost. The last hammer gave an awful trigger pull, so I took my Kimber to Camp Perry and asked the USMC Armorers to do a trigger job. They told me the sear was worn out, and I went to the Springfield Armory pavilion and purchased a forged sear, and I may have found the surplus trigger there. I have short fingers, my finger length is about a digit less than most guys.The Marines did a great trigger job, love it!
This Kimber is still tight, was always accurate, is series 70, it is a great pistol. I like it.
I have a few recent production Colt 1911's and they came with plastic main spring housings. I prefer the arched mainspring housing so they all got changed to metal, arched mainspring housings.
Easy change, no big deal, and at least I can update the pistol easily to what I like.
Maybe I'm lucky. I have a Kimber Eclipse II in 38 Super plus a couple Micros and Micro 9s. All have worked well.
I was cautious when buying the Eclipse II due to the reputation Kimber had gotten but I'm pleased with the pistol.
I have a mid-1980 vintage Colt Mustang that has been an excellent, reliable pistol over the 15-20 years that I used it for defense purposes. I investigated the Micro and it seemed to be VERY similar to the Mustang. I bought one and it did not disappoint me. It has been a suitable replacement for the Mustang. I've purchased a couple of Kimber's special color schemes for the Micro since.
Prior to the Micro, I bought an early production model of the Sig 238 and until Sig replaced the round wire mainspring with a flat wire mainspring, it was junk. My 238 is a safe queen these days.
The Micro 9 looks like a slightly scaled up Micro so that it can handle 9x19 ammunition. Mine has been a good shooter. It just is not as trim as the Micro for deeper concealed carry.
I was cautious when buying the Eclipse II due to the reputation Kimber had gotten but I'm pleased with the pistol.
I have a mid-1980 vintage Colt Mustang that has been an excellent, reliable pistol over the 15-20 years that I used it for defense purposes. I investigated the Micro and it seemed to be VERY similar to the Mustang. I bought one and it did not disappoint me. It has been a suitable replacement for the Mustang. I've purchased a couple of Kimber's special color schemes for the Micro since.
Prior to the Micro, I bought an early production model of the Sig 238 and until Sig replaced the round wire mainspring with a flat wire mainspring, it was junk. My 238 is a safe queen these days.
The Micro 9 looks like a slightly scaled up Micro so that it can handle 9x19 ammunition. Mine has been a good shooter. It just is not as trim as the Micro for deeper concealed carry.
WVsig
Member
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Clackamas Kimbers were the best of the breed but still used MIM and cast parts which would break earlier than most forged parts. IIRC the barrel bushing was MIM.
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