CraigC
Sixgun Nut
If it runs at 55,000psi, that is a problem too.
Lever action .350 Legend?
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Crosshair
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357 Maximum would be the way to do it.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It would be a far better option.
NO the whole point of the 350 legend was to have a straight walled deer capable round for the AR rifle for the states that required a straight walled cartridge it has been adapted to other actions... with success at that
P Flados
Member
Given the success of the 350L in the straight wall states, the lack of a 350L Henry Long Ranger or Browning BLR lever gun seems to be a "missed opportunity" by the makers. These rifles are sold in 223, 243, 308, etc. so offering in 350L would be no big deal. The price is really not that terrible compared to all the other lever guns out there.
The 350L is really too short for the 336 and 1895 action and too much pressure for the 1894 action and the 350L ammo is not crimped, lacks a rim (which can still work) and the ammo would have to be lever gun flat point or gummy tip if tube magazine fed. But I like the idea of a mini 336 in 350L. I doubt it comes along any time soon. But this straight wall thing is a good enough reason.
3C
3C
someguy2800
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A lever action does not need a rim to work. For example 35 rem is rimless. I does however need a strong crimp and flat nose bullets as has been pointed out.
Buckeye63
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I always wanted a Rossi 92 in 357 Max , now in
350 Legend .. I think the OAL maybe a bit to long
The 92 can handle the pressure…
As for pointed bullets .. polymer tips are fine in a tube
But …. A Ruger Semi-auto carbine in 350 L would be sweet
But .. I waiting to buy a 350 L upper
350 Legend .. I think the OAL maybe a bit to long
The 92 can handle the pressure…
As for pointed bullets .. polymer tips are fine in a tube
But …. A Ruger Semi-auto carbine in 350 L would be sweet
But .. I waiting to buy a 350 L upper
P Flados
Member
The 350L has been quite successful in the straight wall states.
The Henry Long Ranger and the Browning BLR lever guns are both sold in 223, 243, 308, etc. Adding the 350L would be easy. Their cost is not outrageous compared to other lever guns.
IMO, both makers above missed a real opportunity by not jumping on the 350L wagon.
The Henry Long Ranger and the Browning BLR lever guns are both sold in 223, 243, 308, etc. Adding the 350L would be easy. Their cost is not outrageous compared to other lever guns.
IMO, both makers above missed a real opportunity by not jumping on the 350L wagon.
SwampWolf
Member
I live in a "straight-wall" state (an improvement on the shotgun slug requirement, imo) and my cartridge of choice for whitetails is the venerable .45-70 Government. Hornady's "LEVERevolution" bullet gives a much needed boost to downrange ballistics.
Roverguy
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At 55k psi, it ain’t going in other than the likes of a Win 95 or Savage 99. And when it does, while no rim is ok, a shoulder would be nice.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. The 350 “Legend” is a series of compromises designed to meet regulations based on a faulty risk / benefit evaluation around hunting. A rimmed version would be better for single shot or lever rifles. So, wait for it.
Would have to go in a box magazine. The 350 legend , and the 450 bushmaster, both headspace off the case mouth. Can’t be roll crimped to prevent bullet set back in a tubular magazine . Even taper crimping would likely cause headspace issues. The only other option would be to crimp the case below the bullet as some pistol , and old rifle cartridges, were. Can’t see the ammo companies doing that for a niche market. Also at the operating pressures of the legend not sure I would want a crimped case below the bullet. At the very least would shorten case life.
Best option would be for a 350 legend rimmed , or flanged, as the British called it. Of course I don’t think the ammo companies are going to do this either. A 357 with a 1.8 case , to meet case limits in some states, would be fun. Again don’t think it’s going to happen.
Of course it’s fun to dream
Best option would be for a 350 legend rimmed , or flanged, as the British called it. Of course I don’t think the ammo companies are going to do this either. A 357 with a 1.8 case , to meet case limits in some states, would be fun. Again don’t think it’s going to happen.
Of course it’s fun to dream
FL-NC
Member
It seems like the legend didn't catch on down here. The reason I say that is because in many gun shops, wally world, etc. 350 legend is the only ammo I almost always see available. I'm sure its a good round, but I suppose people were happy with whatever they already had. I'm by no means an expert on lever rifles, but it seems like doing one in a format like a Savage 99/Browning BLR/ Winchester 1895 may solve the issue with the design of the tip.
The BLR will stand up to the pressure. The 1895 and the Savage may not be so happy. Both are ear lock up and and a steady diet of heavy loads is tough on them. I understand that both were chambered for high pressure cartridges, the 1895 for 30/06 and the Savage for 243 , 308, and 358, but there can be issues. My wife’s Model 99 250 Savage lets you know when the loads are getting too hot. Case stretching quickly becomes extreme. A 308 model did the same thing at loads 5% below max. Never had a 95 Winchester, but, would expect similar issues.
For someone who just has to have a 350 legend lever it would be possible. Cannot see it being worth the hassle and money. Just do not think the factories are going to do it.
earlthegoat2
Member
I don’t know how many times I have to say this but the 450 Bushmaster has been chambered in a 336. Yup. Rebated rim and no shoulder. It can be done. It is challenging as I have spoken with the few folks who have done it.
I’m sure the 450 BM is easier than the 350 L would be since the mag tube would have to be replaced with a smaller one and the bolt face would need more work. HOWEVER, if the chamber pressure is too high for a 336 action then the 350 L is a non starter in the 336. IF, a proper crimp cannot be applied to keep the cartridges in spec upon firing inside the tube magazine then it is also a non-starter.
Here is a Grizzly Custom link showing 450 Bushmaster as an option for a 336 conversion.
https://www.grizzlycustom.com/find-a-marlin-rifle/
Ranger Point Precision did them until Grizzly Custom took over their conversion work. The Arms Room also does 450 BM 336 conversions.
They also do 1894 conversions to 10mm or 45 ACP. Also cartridges that are rimless and headspace on the case mouth.
I’m sure the 450 BM is easier than the 350 L would be since the mag tube would have to be replaced with a smaller one and the bolt face would need more work. HOWEVER, if the chamber pressure is too high for a 336 action then the 350 L is a non starter in the 336. IF, a proper crimp cannot be applied to keep the cartridges in spec upon firing inside the tube magazine then it is also a non-starter.
Here is a Grizzly Custom link showing 450 Bushmaster as an option for a 336 conversion.
https://www.grizzlycustom.com/find-a-marlin-rifle/
Ranger Point Precision did them until Grizzly Custom took over their conversion work. The Arms Room also does 450 BM 336 conversions.
They also do 1894 conversions to 10mm or 45 ACP. Also cartridges that are rimless and headspace on the case mouth.
jmorris
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jmorris
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If only they had made the 350 L utilize the same operating pressure.
The 357 maximum is much closer and avoids the other downfalls of the 350L in a lever gun but still high enough lever actions so chambered are rare.
The 444 Marlin (~48,800 psi) operates at higher pressures than the 357 Maximum, the 357 max would also have a thicker chamber and less bolt thrust making that a doable safe conversion.
There is little doubt that one could take a lever action and make it function and fire with the 350 legend case. Finding one willing to assume the liability if someone was subsequently hurt if something “let go” seems to keep them from doing so.
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The P is important but you're leaving out the S and I.
To calculate bolt thrust of what the locking mechanism sees and must contain. You have to look at case diameter and pressure.
someguy2800
Member
That's not true, the 1894 winchester, marlin 336, and large frame henry wouldn't break a sweat with the bolt thrust of a 350 legend because of the small case head. The 1892 and 1894 marlin would also probably be fine with modern steels but the elevators would be too short so thats a moot point. I agree though that the lack of a roll crimp and pointy factory bullets makes the idea a total non starter.
Here is the bolt thrust of a few for example
350 legend .390" base diameter and 55,000 psi = 6567 lbs of thrust
30/30 .4215" base diameter and 42,000 psi = 5857 lbs of thrust
375 winchester .4125" base diameter 52,000 cup = 7252 lbs of thrust
44 mag .457 base diameter and 40,000 psi = 6557 lbs of thrust
444 marlin .471 base diameter and 45000 psi = 7836 lbs of thrust
308 marlin .470 base diameter and 46500 psi = 8063 lbs of thrust
307 winchester .471 base diameter and 52000 cup = 9055 lbs of thrust
The only pressure limitations on a firearm are the amount pressure the brass can handle, the amount of both thrust, and the hoop strength of the shank of the barrel. Both the 336 and win 94 have already been chambered in cartridges that generate much more bolt thrust and have larger diameter cases, so all of this hand wringing about the chamber pressure has already been proven to be a non issue by other cartridges many years ago.
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herrwalther
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Henry makes a single shot of the 350 Legend. I don't think they will make a Lever anytime soon in the same caliber. My LGS said Henrys are some of the hardest rifles for them to get in stock.
Ruger/Marlin is anywhere at this point. They started their production line with the 1895SBL in 45/70. I would like to see what they will change on the venerable 336 in both 30/30 and 35Rem but I haven't seen any leaks on what they will come out with next.
Ruger/Marlin is anywhere at this point. They started their production line with the 1895SBL in 45/70. I would like to see what they will change on the venerable 336 in both 30/30 and 35Rem but I haven't seen any leaks on what they will come out with next.
jmorris
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I was taking that into account. Guess this would have made it more clear.
I realize this thred is six months old, but it's right "On Target" for my current research of 350 Legend and why there is no lever action models. I missed the "pointed" bullet in my research. So thank you. Of course it makes sense that there are no tubular magazines for the pointed 350 Legend.
I am re-launching my reloading bench. I have never liked reloading necked cartridges. So my current larger caliber rifle (larger than a 22) is a Rossi 357 Mag Lever. I really like lever guns. I need to rethink which caliber I could go to that would reach out and touch something beyond 200 yards, that is STRAIGHT WALLED and with more distance than a 357. The 444 Marlin seemed good and this is pointed as well, no? And I do recall a Marlin LEVER in 444. At least I thought I did. If not, perhaps the .45-70.
Any thoughts on these straight walled cartridges for lever rifles would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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