Pump action shotgun is not for everyone

dekibg said:

Can you please explain why not , I shot my AK and AR from the hip few times - nothing bad happened

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Shotguns and other semi auto long guns have a good chance of being accidentally bump fired. Chances are good the person doing so will not always have great muzzle control with heavier recoiling guns and errant projectiles cannot be recalled. Preventable accidents are not accidents, they are carelessness. I've been in the vicinity of a couple and sorry doesn't fix injuries.

I have a 20 gauge pump with a long barrel with a bead and a shorter one. I like what it does and would not want any more recoil, and prefer to wear a shoulder pad or fire with a coat on. 12 gauge seems to be what everyone goes to when they think shotgun, but like the OP to me it is mostly a range toy and I could use it for various things, but I have other things and keep it around becuase it was my Dad's. I think the recoil is very managable, but would not want a shotgun that kicked any more, not for what I do with it, shoot a gong with a slug or a soda bottle etc.

Past Pad

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?searchTerm=Past+pad

If your gun fits you , then it’s not going to fit you if you use a pad . If I was going to use a pad , I would have my shotgun fitted with me wearing it or with a heavy coat if that is what I am going to be wearing most of the time .

I purchased some of those one and three quarter inch 12 gauge shells for my pump shotgun, it's a Mossberg 500 with a 20-in barrel and full length magazine tube. It holds 13 of those short shot shells and I find it great for home defense use. I purchased plastic furniture for it and it only weighs six and a quarter pounds now unloaded.

Aside from what everyone else has said, most of it I agree with. There is little doubt that with a pump you will feel more....oomph....over an automatic, save perhaps an old Auto5, they are a bit of a different animal and just feel different.

I would also bet that 99% of the time you would shoot the thing off in your bedroom the noise will be the last thing on your mind.....right below recoil.

I am a bit different on my views of shotguns used in your house for defense. I don't know what kind of mansions some of the folk that comment on them, but my bedroom is roughly 24' long wall to wall. I have shot a wide range of things from 15' with a shotgun and have little doubt whatever I was shooting at would not be happy if introduced to a load of #7.5. That is a bit messy. When I started putting a shotgun in the bedroom there was 1 1/2 inches of drywall between my bedroom and my child's bedroom. I actually built a little test rig out of plywood and drywall (at the wifes request) and let the boy shoot it from 20'. We all walked away thinking the person in the next room would be ok. We did not have the same feeling with shot that was more heavy.....and who uses 3/4 drywall anymore? Replacing stuff after a flood that stuff was both hard to find and expensive.

Bottom line, I would not worry about the noise or recoil in that setting. And if there is anything down stream, you might want to think about that as well.

Just my two bits.

Back in my twenties, I used to pretend I knew what I was doing with a 12ga, and that 3" and even 3-1/2" shells didn't bother me. But bruises on my bicep, and a flinch that developed after the first couple shells of the day, always told the truth of the matter.

2-3/4" meet my needs just fine now. Even with the Brenneke slugs for bear defense, I see little reason to step up to a 3". And less recoil makes the gun easier to control for follow up shots, which means far less chance of it walking out of the pocket and onto the arm.

rust collector said:

And when you are shooting at a moving target, recoil sensation will be greatly mitigated by motion.

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Definitely true. I think all of my shotguns kick about 2x as much when I'm patterning them than when I'm shooting clay targets or wing shooting. Aiming and squeezing off a shot at a pattern board is the worst, but shooting clays, doves, blackbirds and such, I barely notice the recoil, even from the 6.5 pound Model 37s.

IMO 2 3/4" shells are all you need for 95% of shotgun use. If your hunting big birds like Turkey, Geese at max ranges or big bear defence thats where the 3 and 3 1/2 shells come in. I think in almost 50 years of shooting I've shot maybe 100 3". I tried a 3 1/2" twice at the range. No thank you. I'll shoot a 375 H&H or .458 Win again before those. Bigger IS NOT better. Have fun.

Scooter22 said:

IMO 2 3/4" shells are all you need for 95% of shotgun use.

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Not only that, but in most cases you're BETTER off with low velocity loads. Based upon hundreds of pattern tests, I don't care for HV rounds, and don't load them. I'd much rather have a few more shot in the cup than more powder/more muzzle velocity. Much of the extra muzzle velocity is lost by the time you get out to 40+ yards or so, and the pattern tends to break up faster with an HV round due to the greater wind resistance/worse aerodynamics of higher speed. I'd rather have a more full and even pattern than a few more FPS on the shot.

First, shotgun fit is important regardless of the action.

I first began shooting skeet with my Dad's side by side when I was in junior high school. I later picked it up again in my late 20's shooting my mother's 1949 vintage Winchester Model 12 20 gauge. I finally moved on to a tubed Browning Citori and shot some skeet competitively in my early 40's. I still shoot the tubed Citori when I venture out on the skeet field 30 years after I stopped shooting competitively.

With skeet target loads, I did not find much difference in recoil with 20 or 28 gauge guns regardless of whether they were a pump or O/U action. When I was shooting then pump action, cycling the action was second nature.

The difference in recoil between 12 and 20 gauge was such that my 20 gauge averages were always better than my 12ga averages. As such, the last several years that i shot competitive skeet, I shot 20 gauge in the 12 gauge events.

A side note, in the 1930's, pump action shot guns were the action to have for the top skeet shooters. Over the next 20-30 years, that moved on to over/unders and semi-auto shotguns.

For field work, don't rule out a pump action shotgun. I use a Remington 870, 12 ga and a Mossberg 500 .410 bore for critter work around my hobby horse farm. Pump guns can take a bit more abuse than higher priced action but you do have to remember to full stroke the action on reloads.

My mother's 20 ga Winchester 12 has been retire for just some nostalgic shooting.

More recently, I have been shooting skeet 1 oz and 7/8oz 12 gauge loads in a 32 " Brownng Citori CSX. The recoil is on par with the 20 gauge loads but the longer barrel requires an adjustment in swing and lead requirements for skeet. That is getting more difficult I age.

I can shoot 2¾" buckshot of any variety all day with no issues, same with any size shot, but a box of 3" magnum slugs out of a 20" will punish just about anybody. I have seen videos of Hickok run 40+ slugs in a session and I don't know how he does it.

Stick to 2¾ loads and see if maybe you need to tweak fit or how you're holding the gun.

In MHO anyone using 3" shells for target does not like themselves. I have several 870's and shoot 8 pellet 00 Buck in 2 3/4". I have not had a problem, even with my "law enforcement only" metal folding stock. Fit, ammo, and proper hold of the stock in your shoulder should alleviate most issues. As for recoil sensitivity I would suggest stepping down to a 20 gauge. At home defense ranges it should handle any invader.

Winchester makes low noise, low recoil rounds. These you can fire all day. I use a Win 1897 for cowboy and Wild bunch matches. In the WB match you can empty the magazine in seconds and keep the rounds on target. I reload to about the same power, and they are more than adequate to shred a cotton mouth.

I use 3 1/2” 00BK for deer . That is what my gunsmith recommended for my shotgun and his custom choke . It puts a hurt on a deer over 40 yards away . But to tell you the truth , they don’t feel any worse than 2 3/4” out of my old Browning A5 . It doesn’t have that sissy recoil pad like most guns have today .

jmr40 said:

Standard 2 3/4" buckshot loads recoil very similar to 300 WM. Standard 2 3/4" birdshot loads are comparable to 30-06.

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Man, I'm not so sure about that. I can fire a 12 gauge one handed, holding it arm extended like a pistol, with birdshot loads without any real discomfort. Done it numerous times while messing around with friends shooting clays. I have higher than average grip and forearm strength (20 years of climbing trees will do that for you) but I really don't think I'd want to do the same with a 30-06.

Been shooting QUALITY pump shotguns for over fifty years. If the gun fits you it won't hurt when you shoot it. My Turkey gun is a 3 in 12 ga. 21 in bbl REM 870..........ZERO perceived recoil with 3 in turkey loads or 3 in. buckshot..........As to shooting shotguns from the hip...........Leave that to actor fakes on tv.

Howdy

I have been using a Winchester Model 12 as my Trap gun for years.

Ammo: 12 gauge 2 3/4", 2 3/4 dram equivalent, 1 1/8 ounces of #8, 1145 fps.

I have no need for anything more powerful. I can shoot these loads all day long and it does not hurt.

Trap is usually fired one shot at a time, I use my Model 12 basically as a single shot, popping a round into the ejector port and then ejecting the spent hull after the shot.

The other day I had a lot of fun shooting doubles with my Model 12. In Trap doubles, two targets emerge at the same time, following diverging trajectories. Most guys use an Over/Under for doubles, firing the bottom barrel first, then firing the top barrel at the second target. I did not do as well as the other guys on the line, who were using O/Us, they simply pulled the trigger a second time. I had to work the action between shots, and most of the time I was shooting at the 2nd target shortly before it hit the ground. But I did hit a fair number, and had a great time. Not good enough to be competitive, but I had a great time.

Before O/U shotguns became so popular, doubles Trap used to be shot all the time with pump guns like the Model 12. It just takes some practice to get good at it.

Driftwood Johnson said:

The other day I had a lot of fun shooting doubles with my Model 12. In Trap doubles, two targets emerge at the same time, following diverging trajectories. Most guys use an Over/Under for doubles, firing the bottom barrel first, then firing the top barrel at the second target. I did not do as well as the other guys on the line, who were using O/Us, they simply pulled the trigger a second time. I had to work the action between shots, and most of the time I was shooting at the 2nd target shortly before it hit the ground. But I did hit a fair number, and had a great time. Not good enough to be competitive, but I had a great time.

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When I was shooting a pump gun regularly at skeet, it was second nature to cycle the action on doubles. After I transitioned to an over/under for skeet, I always have a tough time remembering the stroke the action when I'm shooting a pump gun on the skeet field.

When shooting for fun, it really does not matter what the action is on your shotgun. You are shooting for fun and to gain familiarity with the action youn are shooting.

If your shooting serious competition, you need to shoot the same style action that the top guns are shooting.

I forgot, if you want an attitude adjustment, shoot a .410 pump at skeet with a full choke barrel.

It is really great for grins and giggles.

I have a .410 bore Mossberg 500 that I keep meaning to send the barrel off to have the barrel threaded for some screw in chokes. Its a good pump gun but really taxes your ability to hit targets.

Or for Trap.

DustyGmt said:

I can shoot 2¾" buckshot of any variety all day with no issues, same with any size shot, but a box of 3" magnum slugs out of a 20" will punish just about anybody. I have seen videos of Hickok run 40+ slugs in a session and I don't know how he does it.

Stick to 2¾ loads and see if maybe you need to tweak fit or how you're holding the gun.

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Hickok is nearly 7 feet tall.

Short weak men have issues with slugs and buckshot over long courses of fire, same for females. Hence one reason why law enforcement has switched to light automatic rifles firing varmint cartridges.

JCooperfan1911 said:

Hickok is nearly 7 feet tall.

Short weak men have issues with slugs and buckshot over long courses of fire, same for females. Hence one reason why law enforcement has switched to light automatic rifles firing varmint cartridges.

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Wow, that's just wrong. The reason why law enforcement has switched to the AR is because we recognized the fact that shooting at longer distances is a thing and sometimes shotguns just don't cut it. We still use shotguns by the way.

bearcreek said:

Man, I'm not so sure about that. I can fire a 12 gauge one handed, holding it arm extended like a pistol, with birdshot loads without any real discomfort. Done it numerous times while messing around with friends shooting clays. I have higher than average grip and forearm strength (20 years of climbing trees will do that for you) but I really don't think I'd want to do the same with a 30-06.

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Same. Ive fired 2 barrels at once shooting skeet with one hand. Id think a 30-06 would be pretty bad one handed. But I don't own one. I know Bonnie was said to fire the BAR from the hip at trees and she was small. But the bar is heavy too.

JCooperfan1911 said:

Hickok is nearly 7 feet tall.

Short weak men have issues with slugs and buckshot over long courses of fire, same for females. Hence one reason why law enforcement has switched to light automatic rifles firing varmint cartridges.

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He says he is 6'8. Thats a great deal away from 7 foot. I'm 6'3 barefoot and I'm a great deal from 6'8. Adding 4 inches to one's height isn't a slight exaggeration. Also ive found when a man says he is 6'5 you can almost always deduct 2-3 inches. Same for bench press. Lol . Ive had people who were 2-3 inches shorter than me argue that they were 6'3 or 6'4. Even going so far as tell me I'm taller than I thought. Lol.

And height isn't the issue. Id imagine weight is more so. If anything height would add leverage to the recoil. Lol. The higher up the weight is the more the recoil reacts. Much why some sportbikes use the frame and low down to store fuel and such. Gets the weight lower. Same for linemen. Keep the weight low or you fall over. Either way, a 12 guage shouldn't bruise anything much less the bicep. Ive used a 12 guage since I was 10 (jc higgins branded flight king) with no issues. My girls (5'5 and 120 lb and 5'3 100lb) use a 12 guage pump with no issues. Field loads almost exclusively but no "low recoil" and no special recoil pads. 100 rounds of skeet loads sometimes. Whatever is cheapest at Walmart. I think the issue isn't fit, my kids use my off the shelf shotguns. If they showed interest in it I'd have one fixed. I did get my oldest a fitted 243 this year. Holding the gun right is likely the issue.

That said, I've hunted with every ultramag amd Weatherby mag rifle made and never had an issue. Currently use a 300 mag ultralight or a 338 Lapua. Never had issue. But I have 1 single AR that leaves horizontal red marks on my shoulder. So the shape does matter. But bicep bruising from a shotgun is doing damage . I also have an old falling block that has a metal pointed butt plate. It hurts a bit.

Some people bruise easier as well.