Been considering getting into a progressive press

.38 Special said:

As I say, I wouldn't personally use a progressive for rifle cartridges meant for extreme accuracy

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This comes almost every time there’s a progress press discussion. You absolutely can make precision rifle rounds on a progressive press.

I wish there was a way I could slay this dragon once and for all

Stefan A said:

Why not do it on the press?

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I agree................that's kind of the idea with a progressive..................to do all the functions at the same time...........


(in a quiet voice) that's why it's called progressive.........

Stefan A said:

To answer some questions, I am not loading for extreme precision. I’m just plinking steel targets. I do clean my brass first, but I’d rather not decap separately. I could and I have before. Why not do it on the press?

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You can and I have. Decapping and tumbling keeps the press cleaner but that doesn't mean it's required.

Nature Boy said:

This comes almost every time there’s a progress press discussion. You absolutely can make precision rifle rounds on a progressive press.

I wish there was a way I could slay this dragon once and for all

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It may depend upon the definition of "precision". Are any benchrest competitors loading on a progressive? I cannot imagine doing it back when I was competing - but then, that was a long time ago and things may have changed since then. Beyond that, though, I would have to ask "why?" Who needs hundreds of benchrest cartridges at a time? "Precision" riflery, at least to me, is not a high volume game, so I really don't understand how the conversation gravitated in this direction. But then, I have never been exposed to the idea of annealing on any sort of press either, so I may be completely out of at least one loop.

As to decapping on the press, I agree with @Soonerpesek completely. The idea is to pull a lever and get a cartridge, and there generally is no real reason why that shouldn't happen. It obviously is a good idea to tumble the empties prior to loading, so as to avoid scratching your dies, but that goes for any sort of loading. I can't imagine cleaning a thousand primer pockets before every loading regardless of what style of press I'm using!

For loading pistol and small rifle cartridges in bulk, I think progressives are hard to beat. The downside, as has been said here, is that they are somewhat complicated and take time and careful adjustment to get up and running properly. It's just a learning curve and not insurmountable.

Large rifles like 30-06 and 7mm are best left to single stage mainly because of the force needed to resize.

Some will say that progressives don't load ammo that is as accurate as single-stage. I personally don't find this to be absolutely true at least in my main rifle cartridges - 5.56, 243, 308. My seating depth and runout are all acceptable. Benchrest shooters will want more control over the various case prep stages such as setting up neck tension and mico-seating dept, but for most of us, a progressive will work just fine.

In my case, I went a bit too far with case and bullet feeders (handgun), and I've since set some of that aside just for simplicity's sake. For instance, in handgun, I load .380, 9mm, 357, 44, 45. A press for each would be nice but room and money have to be figured in. It is a pain to change the caliber.

I will say I load a ton of each at a pop. I buy brass by the bucket full from a local CCW trainer. I keep bags of 1,000 cleaned and prepped. It's easy to load a thousand in less than a day including beer breaks (kidding).

I have an LNL.

Stefan A said:

To answer some questions, I am not loading for extreme precision. I’m just plinking steel targets. I do clean my brass first, but I’d rather not decap separately. I could and I have before. Why not do it on the press?

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No reason not too really! Personally I clean brass twice. A quick two hour run. Then size and deprime. Back into the tumbler to polish and clean pockets. Then I flare and prime in one step. The brass stays primed until I decide to load. I break it down. I like charging the cases and then seating bullets in the same session. I never liked trying to do all steps in one session. Just the way I do it. It’s efficient and I can produce good numbers this way. Less steps less problems and it can be quicker.

.38 Special said:

It may depend upon the definition of "precision". Are any benchrest competitors loading on a progressive? I cannot imagine doing it back when I was competing - but then, that was a long time ago and things may have changed since then. Beyond that, though, I would have to ask "why?" Who needs hundreds of benchrest cartridges at a time? "Precision" riflery, at least to me, is not a high volume game, so I really don't understand how the conversation gravitated in this direction. But then, I have never been exposed to the idea of annealing on any sort of press either, so I may be completely out of at least one loop.

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I think I understand the confusion

I make precision rifle rounds on the 650 one at a time, trickling up my charge off press, like a single stage. I size the cases in one batch through the case feeder like any other progressive presses.

.38 Special said:

As to decapping on the press, I agree with @Soonerpesek completely. The idea is to pull a lever and get a cartridge, and there generally is no real reason why that shouldn't happen. It obviously is a good idea to tumble the empties prior to loading, so as to avoid scratching your dies, but that goes for any sort of loading. I can't imagine cleaning a thousand primer pockets before every loading regardless of what style of press I'm using!

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um...wet/pin tumbling cleans the primer pockets, a thousand cases at a time if needed.

I get the same reaction/excuse/logic posts about DE-priming and tumbling before loading, every time I post it.
I even explain the reason I do it and the hiccups it prevents (for me), but still get a lot of scenters who don't progressive reload posting against it.

I will still post my process when asked about progressive reload and expect to get the same responses.
And by adding a Lee APP to your arsenal you can DE-prime a lot of cases in a hurry or simply do it on your single stage press (like you do now).
With that in mind, to all the negative responders:
You do you, I'll do me, and we can all be happy in our own little worlds...

.

Stefan A said:

I'd like to hear more about caliber change ... What is the process on a progressive like the 6000?

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One of the easiest and quickest caliber change for progressive press. ABLP/Pro 4000 is faster due to 4 stations instead of 6:

• Remove dies with bushings using supplied wrench
• Remove index bar to change out shellplate (No need to adjust index due to self-adjusting index zero)
• Install dies with bushings (Using another set of bushings makes this task an easy 1 minute job)
• Swap out small/large primer guide (Uses same priming rod/pin for both small/large primers)
• Adjust powder measure for charge weight
• Adjust case feeder for case height

Stefan A said:

Reading various thread here has taught me that no one brand is going to eliminate problems and that no matter what I go with, I will have to expect problems which I will need to take time to overcome. Plus money.

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I started out with Dillon 550, several Pro 1000s dedicated for caliber, Dillon 450, several single stage/C-H "H" type/turret presses, Classic Turret, Dillon 650 with case feeder, ABLP/Pro 4000, Dillon 550 and now SPP/Pro 6000.

I spent over $160,000 on reloading equipment/supplies, mostly on components; and cost of reloading press compared to lifetime of reloading cost is negligible and you should buy the "right press" for the reloading task you are pursuing.

Nature Boy said:

You absolutely can make precision rifle rounds on a progressive press.

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Yes. While I highly recommend Dillon 550 for precise rifle reloading (I use C-H 502 micrometer powder measure as it has standard threads), SPP/Pro 6000 and Dillon 750 (which replaced 650) are what I would recommend for progressive press to reload any pistol and rifle calibers. When I had to downsize from 15 presses, it came down to ABLP/Pro 4000 to load pistol calibers and Dillon 550 for rifle calibers ... Then SPP/Pro 6000 came out and Pro 4000 got gifted to my sister/BIL who wanted to reload.

Pro 6000 kit is $339 ($12 for case collator) and if for whatever reason, the press won't satisfy your reloading needs, you can always buy Dillon 750 with case feeder for $1400 - https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/dillon-xl750-and-bundles

blackd24 said:

The advantage of the 6000 is the six stations. If you want a bullet feeder and a powder check, you have that option. If you’re not interested in that, just get the ABLP

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No, I would recommend you get the Pro 6000 kit and use 4 stations.

Believe me, you will thank me later.

Why?

Because Pro 4000 is limited to short rifle calibers like .223/7.62x39/.300 BLK while Pro 6000 can load any rifle calibers as it uses same ram/linkage/lever as the .50 cal BMG press.

And we have just about identified and resolved all SPP/Pro 6000 issues to achieve operational reliability - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-17#post-12495679

Stefan A said:

I am not loading for extreme precision. I’m just plinking steel targets.

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Or think of it this way. Start with a reloading setup that will produce precision and if you don't need it, use it to load range blasting/plinking loads.

As many members posted in previous progressive press threads, buy the right tool and cry once ... And for $339 Pro 6000 kit, maybe shed a tear ... of joy.

Tilos said:

um...wet/pin tumbling cleans the primer pockets, a thousand cases at a time if needed.

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Point taken.

I'm still too lazy to bother decapping as a separate step, or to deal with the extra steps required of wet tumbling. As you say, though, we all do it however we like to!

Stefan A said:

I'd like to hear more about caliber change. On the turret press it's as simple as changing to a new turret and swapping out powder and getting my measurement (because I only have 1 auto drum powder measure). What is the process on a progressive like the 6000?

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I can only speak to Dillon, specifically the 550C.

If you want to take advantage of the easy changes between calibers, for each caliber you load, you’ll need dies, a caliber conversion, a tool head, and a Dillon powder die. If you really want to make it easy, multiple powder measures, but I personally don’t need that for my own purposes. I move the powder measure between toolheads.

You can buy less expensive toolheads and save $15-20 each, but no getting around the other stuff.

I buy all my Dillon stuff from Scheels:

550 Tool head: $34
550 Caliber conversion: $75
Dillon powder die: $21
Total: $130 per cartridge before dies.

Dillon isn’t cheap…

Buzznrose said:

Dillon isn’t cheap…

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NO............................but they do make it pretty easy.................

I like threads like this because they remind me why I ditched progressive reloading (on a pair of Lee 1000s). But that doesn't help Stefan. So I'll try to add my 2 cents with things that haven't been mentioned that I recall...from 20 some years ago.

Let's pretend you've picked an excellent system for your needs, Stefan, got it setup and operating perfectly...and it all was within budget.
1) Regardless of make/model you'll have to use it frequently. Letting it sit for a month or three while you shoot up what you loaded on it isn't an option. The mechanical parts will get sticky and refuse to work right/at-the-proper-time/quickly-enough and there'll be problems. You will forget some of its quirks and not operate it correctly. I'd say a couple of hour-long sessions a week are called for

2) malfunctions will be a great source of stress until they are resolved. If you or someone closely related is prone to atrial fibrillation, a progressive press might lead to episodes. In addition, What was a relaxing pastime is now something that demands every bit of your attention. Why? Because 3)

3) When you goof up and make junk (or ammo you don't dare shoot) you'll make lots of junk...quickly. If the proper amt of powder isn't being dropped, the seater has come loose, the sizer backs out, the primer feed hiccups, etc, you'll have to pull bullets, maybe lots of 'em. It won't be so bad if you catch the problem/screw up early. If you don't catch it or if you load a bunch of stuff your gun just doesn't like, well...that'll be unfortunate. There are plenty here who will commiserate with you.

LiveLife said:

One of the easiest and quickest caliber change for progressive press. ABLP/Pro 4000 is faster due to 4 stations instead of 6:

• Remove dies with bushings using supplied wrench
• Remove index bar to change out shellplate (No need to adjust index due to self-adjusting index zero)
• Install dies with bushings (Using another set of bushings makes this task an easy 1 minute job)
• Swap out small/large primer guide (Uses same priming rod/pin for both small/large primers)
• Adjust powder measure for charge weight
• Adjust case feeder for case height

No, I would recommend you get the Pro 6000 kit and use 4 stations.

The Pro 4000 is limited to short rifle calibers like .223/7.62x39/.300 BLK while Pro 6000 can load any rifle calibers as it uses same ram/linkage/lever as the .50 cal BMG press.

Or think of it this way. Start with a reloading setup that will produce precision and if you don't need it, use it to load range blasting/plinking loads.

As many members posted in previous progressive press threads, buy the right tool and cry once ... And for $339 Pro 6000 kit, maybe shed a tear ... of joy.

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""Adjust powder measure for charge weight.""
Could be as simple as changing the drum to another pre-set drum for the caliber change (spare drums are cheap).

""The Pro 4000 is limited to short rifle calibers like .223/7.62x39/.300 BLK. ""
The pez dispenser priming on the Pro 4000, requiring operator input, was the deal breaker for me.
just sayin',

The above posted before I finished...old tablet...old guy with shaky hands.

4) You'll become a volume buyer of bullets (or you'll cast), primers, probably powder, and maybe cases. You'll be cruising the web often in search of deals...or in search of the item itself at any price. You'll have to find places to store all this stuff and keep it organised. Worst of all you'll have to pay for it. The press will be the biggest bargain of the whole undertaking.

Do you really want to devote this much to reloading? It's a question you'll have to answer. Remember, shooting, not reloading, was how this started.

Stefan A said:

Yeah, this is an excellent point. This is probably the biggest hesitation right now. Do I REALLY need it? No, I don't. I have to justify this much expense into something I don't really need. But then again, it's a hobby, and that's how hobbies are.

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I’m not sure how much this will help - I hope a lot - but I think you will regret not going for it.
I don’t use a progressive or turret - never will probably - they don’t represent my style of reloading. I’m not a volume shooter. However! I also never even considered switching to a progressive. You have thought about it. To me that means you really ought to try it. While you’re new enough to enjoy the adventure, before you get too set in your ways. The cost is recoverable if you decide it’s not for you. The frustration is part of the learning experience. The challenge is getting to a load you’re comfortable with. Just keep in mind this is about doing something that you will enjoy, a learning experience.
I really think you’ll regret not getting into a progressive now when your enthusiasm is high, or maybe this summer in the hopes prices fall. Just my two cents.

Nature Boy said:

I make precision rifle rounds on the 650 one at a time, trickling up my charge off press, like a single stage. I size the cases in one batch through the case feeder like any other progressive presses.

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I agree..............and have made that same statement, some just REFUSE to believe a progressive can also be used as a single stage if wanted/needed...........................meh, whatever, eh.......

@GeoDudeFlorida .........................well said..............

Stefan A said:

Do the bushings come with it when you purchase the kit?

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Yes.

I guess I am an oddball here.

I prefer to decap all of my cases using a RCBS universal decapping die in my Lee single stage press before I throw cases into my tumbler for cleaning. The reason for this is it gives me another chance to inspect cases for any damage.

I tried a Lee Load Master and had nothing but troubles with priming cases on the press. I never could get it to work properly even with help from other reloader and from Lee. It would either not feed primers or feed them sideways or upside down. And I have never had issues priming cases with the Pez dispenser on my Lee Turret press.

So if I do decide to try another progressive press, it will be the Lee ABLP/4000 with the Pez dispenser. Right now I am just sticking with my Lee Turret press. I can load 100 pistol rounds in about 40-45 minutes to include checking my powder charge and OAL periodically.