Questions about moving to progressive press

[Esoteria]

Hi all,

I've been using a Lee Classic Turret press for somewhere around a year and a half. By and large, it's been really good, and I can pretty much say the same for all my Lee dies and accessories.

I'm planning to move to a progressive, and the Load Master seems like the right choice as I've occasionally wished I had a 5th hole in the turret press. I have some questions about making the transition.

1. I plan to use my Auto-Drum measure instead of an Auto-Disk since it's easier to adjust. Any reason I shouldn't?
2. Does the case feed work well enough? I hear stories of broken decapping pins and I start wondering if I ought to just load cases by hand. I'm trying to figure out if using the case feed is actually that much faster. I guess it assumes the collator works well, or else you're pretty much just hand loading the tubes anyway, right?
3. Primer feed is supposedly the Achilles' heel of this thing. I saw on Midway there's a new trough design for the feeders. Are these standard on new kits? Should I buy one if not? Also, any parts crossover with my Lee Safety Prime? I'm guessing the main primer tray is interchangeable, which would be pretty convenient.
4. Does anyone know if the mounting holes are in the same place as the Classic Turret? I'm guessing no, but that's not such a big deal.
5. I see a lot of setup tricks on various forums and comments. Are there any that I should definitely do right off the bat?
6. Thoughts on bullet feeders? Worth it? Better than case feeders? Finicky?
7. Finally, I notice a lot of mixed reviews with the Lee progressives, whereas the turret and single stage presses seem almost universally liked. However, this seems to be true for other brands as well. I'm OK making tweaks here and there, but my question is this: am I about to deal with way more problems than I had with the turret press? If so, can these really be avoided by using another brand? I may be willing to pay $400 or $600 for a press instead of $200 if it's really going to make a world of difference, but I'm gonna be pretty salty paying 50-100% more for all the accessories (shellplates and such) if I'm still having to make tweaks and adjustments to my expensive press all the time.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

1) no..use it
2)case feed works great when you set it up right. A little tension is necessary to leave the case fully in place.
Don't oil the the bar that runs at an angle. Its key to tension needed. Grease the horizontal bar on the bottom lightly if you want. That's it.

Collator works fine just have it shaking before you poor in your brass and don't dump too many at a time. Occasionally you will get one upside down until you get it down. Look for them and your fine.

3) the new primer trays are a great improvement. Works like the old one with the shake method and is simple enough. The improvement is in the three position locking tab. In the center position it holds back the primers so you can insert the tray. No more clogs.

Priming system has been upgraded. But the one for the load master is different if memory serves me well. But to be consistent with the spp especially i decap in station 1 and in the priming station 2 I use a sizing die without the decapping pin to help keep the cases aligned. This reduces miss primes and crooked Primers. I finished another 400 9mm today and had 1 crushed primer. Brings me up to around 1100 with 2 crushed primers. Not bad and a far cry from the old priming system and setup.

4)Mounting holes are left, right, and back. 3 total don't know if they are the same. If your mounting to a bench i can tell you how to mount it where it will never move.

5)already mention the die in the priming station. That's the easiest and most important FME. Do it right away.

6) case feeder covered and other than an automated one that uses a single tube like the one for the Dillon the one on it is best as is FME.

The Lee bullet feeder is finicky. An RCBS bullet feeder and die work better IMO.

7) Finicky but no near as finicky in my opinion as finicky as it once was with improvements to the worst part about it...the priming system. I've got mine running fine FWIW.

There are better presses and they are more expensive. The heads are cheap for a Lee comparatively speaking and so are the shell plates.

At the end of the day its an investment. If you can swing a Dillon get it. I got my Loadmaster in a trade deal and have no regrets for what i have in it. But if I would not have made the deal that day i would have gone for a Dillon.

 

[Esoteria]

Great help and insight, Wreck, thanks a lot. Gives me a lot more confidence going into this.

If you see this again, would you mind expanding on your priming situation? I thought I had read somewhere else to reverse what you mentioned about sizing and decapping (i.e. use the pinless sizing die to align, and then use a decapping-only die), but it's possible I either read it wrong or that it works both ways. Anyway when you have a priming problem such as the missed or crooked primers you mentioned, what is going wrong that I should watch out for?

Side note, a question I forgot to ask:
8) How important would you say the disconnector is on the auto disk or drum? I removed it (mostly out of necessity) on my turret press, but I never had a double charge or felt like I was at risk of doing so.
I can imagine with a progressive it's more likely to happen, when for instance you're trying to tune the seating die or similar and running the cartridge up a few times.
For those that have used it, does it get in your way? Any problems with it? Does it end up giving you no charge sometimes due to maybe not lowering the ram all the way?

 

[Stripesdude]

I pulled the disconnector off my auto drum. But you do need to watch to make sure you don't double charge.

I love my Loadmaster. Sure, a Dillon is a better press, but I wasn't going to sink $1k into it, when I got the Loadmaster and all of the accessories for about $350.

Check out the Loadmaster forum...it's a dedicated site that has a lot of mods.

 

[Gadawg88]

I started with the LCT. Love it and still use it a lot for .223, 38sp and .357. For Christmas I got a Loadmaster to run 9mm and 45acp. There is a learning curve to go from even a turret to a progressive, regardless of the paint color on the machine. Any problems I had early on I attribute to that learning curve. Once I got the rythem of the new machine and became competent, it all smoothed out nicely. Wreck-n-Crew covered your questions well. Regarding #5, the universal decapping die with the pin removed goes in station #2 (priming station). #8) I removed the disconnect from both my Auto drums (on my LCT and Loadmaster). Zero issues. You would really have to work at it to double charge a case.

If you end up with a Loadmaster, take a look at the light kit from Inline Fabrication. It really lights things up right where you need it. Worth every penny IMO. Also, if you get one, go make sure you do the step in the set-up instructions about primer depth adjustment. I skipped it because it seemed fine. I had a few issues priming very early on. I went back and did the adjustment as outlined in the set-up instructions, and it made a difference.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Guess it was answered already about the die in the #2 priming station. But when priming its hard to tell sometimes if one crushes a primer. Weed out bad pockets. I culled 13 or so from the 3,000 9mm cases i had and eliminated a cycle redundancy. Also if one crushes or goes in crooked it might show its ugly head before you finish loading because it sits with a tilt. For them i pull out of rotation of the turret and continue on.

The rest are found during visual inspection when i load my ammo into my ammo boxes primer up.

Also as far as the auto drum its pretty straight forward vs auto disk which i currently use. I have an adjustable disk insert too but it doesn't work with the small volume pistol charges below .5cc for me. For larger charges in my 10mm i use it. I have the spring conversion and charges drop real well.

Auto disk is fine and accurate but the auto drum uses a much more accurate metering system. For instance using red dot in 9mm i can only load in .3 gr increments because of the hole spacing in the disk. They are predrilled. With the auto drum you can go .1 gr at a time with red dot easily. I plan to get one before long and upgrade.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

One more note about the primer system. When loading your looking for at least 3 things that are signs something did not go right.

First is decapper pin as you know but i check the pin that enters the hole and not the pin popping up because I've broke a few and one time there was no indication it snapped. If its intact the decaping is successful.

Second you can watch primer drop through the slot. It at least tells you that one was fed.

Third and most important you know is visual powder drop inspection. You know this one well by now.

There was a fourth but you already got it when i mentioned a funny tilt to a case after priming and before powder drop in 3.

Also the rcbs feeder die would naturally go in four and seating/crimp die in 5.

For me manual feeding adds to the rhythm of things and the reason i did not build an automatic bullet feeder like you see on you tube yet. That and i wanted to get the system running well first.

Now that I'm there i still don't think the need is a need yet. Just a want to try.

As far as the automatic case collator i think it would save me some time and struggle with feeding handfuls of cases through and jiggling the thing. Plus the wait to get them all filled. I plan a build sometime this year.

 

[Lafitte]

If I were to use a Lee Auto Drum on a pogressive press I would leave the "lock-out" feature on the measure and install the pullback chain to reset it just as the shell plate is advances. Without the lock-out there is a much greater chance of a double charge. Your mileage may vary.
Lafitte

 

[jmorris]

As long as the machine you order is not old stock, it should have the latest primer system. I would start off looking around at mikesreloadingbench for pointers, also tons of youtube videos. Avoid the Lee bullet feeder, it is a waste of money, the hornady one is the cheapest I have used that works. You are certainly going to have more problems than your turret throws at you. Once you get it figured out they can be just as fast as anything else, I have loaded 100 rounds in under 4 min on one I had setup with a Dillon collator and Hornady bullet feeder.

 

[DBEAM]

I've had one for about 6 months and have finally gotten pretty good at it. The biggest issue was addressed in the 1st reply about lubing the case feeder, use STP oil treatment on the plank and nothing on the rod. Never have had good luck using it to pime so I decap and flare in 1st pass. Then I prime by hand. Then I run a final pass as follows powder charge, rcbs lock out die, hornaday bullet feeder die, Lee bullet seater, and last Lee fcd.

There have been times it has agrevated me but when I look at other press prices I live with it.

 

[thomas15]

I was under the impression that the usual loadmaster set up for pistol calls for station #1 to be a sizing and decapping station and that many use the empty body of a sizing die in station #2 to line up the brass with the priming tool. Is this true or just an internet rumor?

 

[greyling22]

I had a couple turret presses and figured Id try the loadmaster. I used one for about 5/years and 20k rounds of 9mm and 357. Mostly 9mm.
I had more success with 357 because it has a nice beveled primer pocket. The biggest problem was priming. I got skipped primers, tipped primers and crushed primers. Probably an average of 2 per hundred. I liked the press, but I got tired of fighting with it. I used the new trough style, but never got to try the new tray. It might have been great. But priming on the upstroke is a bad thing. You can't feel if something has gone wrong or not.

But the case feed worked great, and the collator is so awesome I put one on my replacement 650.

It is a 5 station turret, but only 4 stations are usable because you have to prime on station 2. Station 1 is for deprimimg, 2 for priming/sizing, and the other 3 for whatever you want.
All that to say, I liked the loadmaster, and wanted to love it, but I couldn't. It is the only Lee product I have tried I cannot recommend, and I've tried a lot of them.

 

[thomas15]

^^^So then I'm sort of correct, the loadmaster is in effect a 4 station press. The OP wants a 5 station press. Is this a deal killer?

 

[greyling22]

there was supposed to be a deal the other day for a Hornady Lock and Load press for something like three hundred and thirty bucks. That would be my recommendation over the loadmaster. Maybe it was at jet.com using a coupon code?

 

[jmorris]

$330 for an LNL would be a good deal, dealer cost on the last ones I bought from Hornady were $325. Do you have a link?

 

[Schwing]

I was a short-time owner of a loadmaster will give my .02.

1. Absolutely use the auto drum. I own several now and don't even bother with the auto disk.

2. In the few weeks I owned mine I had zero problems with the case feeder. It works very well.

3. I also had zero problems with the priming system. It was surprisingly smooth and never hung up like my pro1000 used to.

4. I use the lee mounting plates so I can't tell you for sure but I did not have to modify anything switching from the pro1000 to the loadmaster.

5. I would set up the press as-is before altering anything. A lot of folks don't have issues at all right out of the box.

6. I have never used a bullet feeder that worked well with anything but jacketed or plated bullets. Even then, they are not worth the trouble IMO. If the choice is between a bullet feeder and a powdercheck/lockout die, the powdercheck/lockout die wins every time for me.

7. This is a tough question since every person seems to have a different experience. In my case, I loved my Pro1000 (still do). I had very few problems with it and those were simple fixes. When I got the Loadmaster I loved it for a couple of weeks and then started running into indexing problems. I would calibrate it and it would work for 20 rounds or so and then stop indexing properly. All other functions were flawless on mine.

Ultimately I ended up sending it back and bought a Dillon 650. My wife knew that was what I really wanted and told me to go for it... I didn't argue too much I would say it was worth it but the price difference was astronomical. I think I was in for about $400 on the Loadmaster fully loaded with several caliber changes. On the Dillon, it was more like $1500.

Had mine indexed properly, I would have kept it. For the price point, it is one of the best values out there IMHO. If you are mechanically inclined and don't mind working out some usually minor issues, I think it is a great press. Having said that, if you have the ability to wait for months/years and can save up the $$, I would be patient and buy either a Dillon or a Hornady LNL. Both will be around for your grand kids to use.

 

[ny32182]

Not trying to dump on other brands, but I know several people who bought something else, and wished they had bought a Dillon first.

I don't know ANYONE who as bought a Dillon, and later wished they had bought something else.

Among people that load lots of ammo, the choice is Blue well over 99% of the time. Just something to think about.

I used a Redding T7 for everything before going progressive... don't be scared of a brand change.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I was under the impression that the usual loadmaster set up for pistol calls for station #1 to be a sizing and decapping station and that many use the empty body of a sizing die in station #2 to line up the brass with the priming tool. Is this true or just an internet rumor?

No. Its true. I said it in a post on this thread too because that's what i do. I loaded a few hundred more yesterday and had no issues priming.

As long as you have the newer priming system and a die there the process is pretty smooth once set up.

I'm up to around 1700 9mm with 3 miss primes since i started counting the miss primes.

I have more bullets to pull from forgetting to adjust my primer seating adjustments. 9 i think. I have 8 crushed cases of 9mm where i forgot to tighten the tool head and i got in a hurry.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

^^^So then I'm sort of correct, the loadmaster is in effect a 4 station press. The OP wants a 5 station press. Is this a deal killer?

No its 5 stations and you can use all 5.

 

[greyling22]

sure you can use all 5, but since you have to split up the depriming and priming/sizing into 2 stations, where usually do it as 1, your 5 stations winds up being effectively a 4 station. Which is fine for most people, heck, I only use 3 on the 650, but if you truly want/need 5, like wanting to run a powder cop and a factory crimp or something, you are out of luck.

Wreck, I'm glad you have a loadmaster that is working well, heck, if it works, it is the true bargain among the progressive presses, but I think the majority of loadmaster owners struggle. I know I sure wish mine had worked better than it did.....The dillon is nice, but it is mind-blowingly expensive and filling primer tubes is really tedious.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

sure you can use all 5, but since you have to split up the depriming and priming/sizing into 2 stations, where usually do it as 1, your 5 stations winds up being effectively a 4 station. Which is fine for most people, heck, I only use 3 on the 650, but if you truly want/need 5, like wanting to run a powder cop and a factory crimp or something, you are out of luck.

Wreck, I'm glad you have a loadmaster that is working well, heck, if it works, it is the true bargain among the progressive presses, but I think the majority of loadmaster owners struggle. I know I sure wish mine had worked better than it did.....The dillon is nice, but it is mind-blowingly expensive and filling primer tubes is really tedious.

The Dillon does more steps in station 1 because of the design and therefore eliminates the need for another station. I get that.

So the way i was looking at it is that Dillon design saves a station rather than the load master wasting one. But it cant be both. Its the chicken or the egg.

From my view the Dillon saves a station. Its better designed to do so too and i would never argue it isn't because it is reliable enough to prove the design. Plus i like them more than any other because I've ran them. They run great.

Really in the end there are plenty of stations to do what most want to do and that's not the reason for this part of the discussion IMO. Plus there was no reason to compare the 2. The thread is about the Lee. The whole discussion has really become more about whats better. It always does. Even though i brag on the Dillon and state honestly that it would have been the press i ended up with i cant detract from what i get from the Lee.

On another note the Lee got a bad reputation because it was not as good and the priming system stunk. But improvements have made it a better machine than what it was just a few years ago. Most will not struggle like they once did.

Since things have changed it does muddy the water more when those bad experiences a few years ago remain a reason to judge it now. Believe me those reasons are justified. Just like with anything that had a lot of problems it will take time for the improvements to get out there as public knowledge and newer experiences can then be used as a compass for where it is now and not what it was then.

My experiences have gone from the way it was to what it is now. So my experiences are being shared as to what it is with references as to what it was. By doing so I'm giving a fair shake the best i can for the op and others that read the threads to the best of my ability.

Its not easy to defend something that has changed but every time i write about the changes i expect it to get scrutinized. It all comes with having something like the Load master.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm curious, how does the Loadmaster handle spent primers?

I have the Hornady LNL AP and the Lee Classic Cast, and am rather spoiled by the spent primer falling through the frame into the trash.

I know that the Dillon drops their's into a container which needs to be pulled and and emptied

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I'm curious, how does the Loadmaster handle spent primers?

I have the Hornady LNL AP and the Lee Classic Cast, and am rather spoiled by the spent primer falling through the frame into the trash.

I know that the Dillon drops their's into a container which needs to be pulled and and emptied

They fall down the center too. They have a little sliding door to slide open and empty them. You can load quite a few before it needs emptying.

I just finished a around 2500 since it was emptied. I'm sure i can load a lot more because the cavity is the hallow of the ram. The ram is a cylinder about 2" in diameter and around 8-9" in length if that helps with an idea of how many spent primers can fit into the cylinder.

 

[bullseye308]

I've had a loadmaster for at least 7 years or so and had a few issues getting it running smoothly, but once I did it has been great. I use it to deprime and size then tumble and hand prime them. Swap a head and load them up usually 1-3000 at a time. I'm mainly loading 9mm, 38, & 357 on it and load 16-20000 a year. I use the case feeder and hand feed the bullets and it really cranks them out.

Check out lee's site for videos, YouTube, and the above mentioned site and you should be able to get it going smoothly in no time if it needs anything at all, which it might not. For the money you can't beat it. Buy a turret for every caliber and once you get the dies setup changing is so fast and easy. If I loaded both large and small primers and primed on the press I'd set one up for each and not have to bother. I like hand priming and have time to do it so I just do it, I have primed on the press and it does work, I just prefer it by hand.

I'm cheap, thrifty, and don't have much income. Even if I had the money to buy a Dillon I'd have a loadmaster setup for all 3 pistol calibers i load and a massive pile of powder and primers. I load rifle on a lee reloader press and if it ever fails I'll replace it with another of the same.

 

[MikeInOr]

Those Dillon owners always want to chime in about how much better their presses are... so I will resist and dodge the confrontation.

I do run all 5 stations on my 650. I bought a RCBS lube die for loading rifle calibers. The RCBS lube die is useless for rifle cartridges because is does not lube the necks. If you have to manually lube the necks you might as well lube the whole case.

For the fun of it I took the useless RCBS lube die and put it in station 1 of my 45acp head. I use Dillion carbide dies so I don't really need to lube pistol cases... but man what a difference it makes. The whole stroke is much smoother. Station 2 sizes the case and of course primes. Station 3 charges with powder. Station 4 is the case powder check. Station 5 seats the bullet and taper crimps. I really appreciate having all 5 stations on the 650! I can load 45's about 3 times faster with the lube die... well, ok maybe the difference in speed is barely noticeable... but it is definitely smoother.

My first press was an RCBS 4x4 progressive... it was so miserable trying to keep running I gave up on reloading. A few years later a buddy really had to do a big sell job to convince me to take his Dillon 650 off his hands. I really enjoy reloading.