FBI arrests 21 at SHOT 2010 Show

i predict a rush by many of these guys to play lets make a deal

It's not OK or routine to bribe foreign governments, and it hurts our national interests. The "third world" countries that take the bribes are brutal, repressive countries and, for the most part, don't even like us. We have no interest in helping them by illegal means.

Our own military distributes cash by the bundle to local leaders who then spread it around. What would that be called?

Our own military distributes cash by the bundle to local leaders who then spread it around. What would that be called?

Click to expand...

Different times, but makes me think of the CIA in Vietnam. (bribery, extortion, drugs and legit aid, etc., according to some.)

"What would that be called? "

Pass the trash. A dollar isn't worth much anymore so handing out bundles of them is about like multiplying by zero; you end up with nothing. A buck used to buy 4 or 5 gallons of gas or 4 packs of Marlboros. I'm talking 1970 give or take a year or two. That's when I was in college and poor - '68 to '72.

John

The were not all arrested "Off Site". Three were arrested at the show and led out in handcuffs. Most of them were arrested at the airport when they landed.

I can't see how this is not entrapment.

Edit: To fix my misinformed screw-up.

Our own military distributes cash by the bundle to local leaders who then spread it around. What would that be called?

Click to expand...

Bribery. Also misappropriation of public funds. Sorry to be the one to inform you of this, but just because the military does it, doesn't mean it's right or even legal.

And now let the fire and brimstone of authority worshipping security state lovers rain down upon me.

I can't see how this is not entrapment

Click to expand...

Once an arrest warrant has been issued it's not entrapment to go to a location you know the suspects will be.

Once an arrest warrant has been issued it's not entrapment to go to a location you know the suspects will be.

Click to expand...

I'm referring to a FBI agent posing as a foreign official and coaxing someone into perform an illegal act.

I'm referring to a FBI agent posing as a foreign official and coaxing someone into perform an illegal act.

Click to expand...

Ahh OK, I see what you mean. Sorry.

I'm referring to a FBI agent posing as a foreign official and coaxing someone into perform an illegal act.

Click to expand...

Entrapment- The act of government agents or officials that induces a person to commit a crime he or she is not previously disposed to commit.

Entrapment is a defense to criminal charges when it is established that the agent or official originated the idea of the crime and induced the accused to engage in it.

-The Free Dictionary

Click to expand...

A defense of entrapment in this case will hinge around whether the government can produce corroborating evidence that the defendants were engaged in similar illegal activities prior to the sting operation. I'm guessing that such evidence will be forthcoming at trial. The FBI are not rank amateurs in this regard.

I caution people here not to engage in reflexive defense of what we perceive to be 'gun people' or 'part of our tribe.'

Why? Because the firearms community doesn't need a record of public statements reflexively defending criminals. Such statements are easily used against us to discredit the RKBA movement. We need to support our own when we are in the right and police our own when they are wrong. The jury's still out on this one.

I caution people here not to engage in reflexive defense of what we perceive to be 'gun people' or 'part of our tribe.'

Click to expand...

That's an excellent point. There is always the temptation to see an anti gun agenda in everything but chances are very good that in this case "guns" had nothing to do with it at all.

Exactly Lemmy. The FBI has enough on their plate that they don't need to be going after people who have not already been observed doing something criminal. These guys may be in the gun community to some extent, but they most likely are also the people who are in it just for the money, and would sell us out for personal gain. There was a guy who started a shooting range down here, American was the name of the range, and he used to brag that he was not a gun guy, he was a business guy who did the range as an investment. He is in jail for 7 years right now for selling guns to gang bangers, coaching them how to straw purchase. One of his guns also turned up in cartels in Mexico. He was also "stung" by an ATF crew. The federal agencies are underfunded and they don't go after people who aren't using our industry and OUR GOOD NAME AS AMERICAN GUN PEOPLE for their own personal illegal gain.

I guess since they cleaned up Wall Street and the Banking industry,the healthcare crisis, and the border wars, they have a lot of extra manpower and money to spend on this.

The agents told Goncalves that in order to win a contract for the sale of guns he would have to add a 20 percent "commission" to price quotes, half of which would go to the purported minister of defense and the rest would be split between the others, according to the indictment.

Click to expand...

It doesn't sound like he would have given a bribe it they hadn't asked for it...

Not sure how I feel about that.

"Expediting fees" sound much better than "commission."

This is just one more example of how the current crop of idiots in the Executive Branch have turned a blind eye to America's security. We have underwear bombers over Detroit, unlawful combatants being lawyered up, and a border with Mexico that is dysfunctional. Meantime limited resources at FBI are tasked with harassing one of America's most indispensable industries, the gun makers.

I see this as just one more way the gun haters in the current administration are attacking the industry. And doing it at the shot show is just grandstanding. It's like the IRS going public every year with a high profile target right at tax time. It's designed to intimidate.

+1 gym remember Ruby Ridge and Waco. I'm sure our FBI ATF and JFG men are right on top of things.

It sounds to me like this is a case against individuals and not companies. The government has before often shut down entire companies when they suspect them of bribery, embezzlement, fraud etc. The fact that the feds went after some specific individuals from a wide variety of companies leads me to believe that it was something that these men did on their own initiative (allegedly) that caused the FBI to perform the arrest.

More information is needed...neither we nor could any court decide their guilt on the information available right now.

Ive read the investigation has been going on for 2.5 yrs and also 4 years.

Either way, it started BEFORE Obama was voted in.


People, take off the "current administration" Obama conspiracy theory glasses.

Food for thought. How is the FBI going to make the charges stick if there was no actual foreign official involved? No foreign official = no actual bribe under FCPA

The FBI Agent was posing as foreign official, was not actually one.

It all seems very vague to me. I am ignorant about international business law, so I may not understand this situation.

Click to expand...

(emphasis added)

At least one person is being honest about the FCPA. As to some of the rest of you...

There's a lot of talk condemning either LEAs, the current administration, or inferring support for those arrested without much understanding of the law or the relevant facts.

And this relates to firearms how? Ah, yes, those arrested were in Las Vegas for the SHOT show...

danez71 said:

Ive read the investigation has been going on for 2.5 yrs and also 4 years.

Either way, it started BEFORE Obama was voted in.


People, take off the "current administration" Obama conspiracy theory glasses.

Click to expand...

I don't know if that is possible for some people...

Oh, right. Suddenly Obama is powerful enough to telepathically induce grown adults to willingly break the law.

Click to expand...

That's just one of the many powers that I, personally, would expect a messiah to have.

Cutting to the chase and through the BS, this is the Obama administration's Justice Dept (Eric Holder, a known communist) going after our guns by taking out the makers. Remember, Ruger was hit awhile ago with "OSHA violations". Now Smith and Wesson. Everything this overt traitor does is for political reasons to advance his communist agenda, the foremost of which is to disarm the proletariat!!!